(06-18-2015, 03:40 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote:  being unable, or perhaps unwilling, to make changes (for better or worse) in order to achieve the only goal, the Super Bowl, will make your fans question you every time.

Another common strawman.

Claiming we did nothing to improve when we signed one of the top free agent DEs.

(06-18-2015, 07:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred why do you call the Steelers, Packers, and Patriots teams great ?

See what I'm getting at here ??? The spin you try and put on it is - if you're not ecstatic that we've made the playoff 4 years in a row then you're a hater. It's the typical take it to the extreme argument championed by homers.

It's not that that making the playoffs isn't a nice thing. It's that I want the Bengals to be among the GREAT !

You're satisfied with so-so, well then good for you.

Thanks for proving my point about how this is used as a strawman.  Please post a link to where I said I was satisfied with just making the playoffs.

Please post a link to where I said that if you were not ecstatic about making the playoffs 4 years in a row then you are a hater.

I never said either of those things.  They are perfect examples of strawmen.

However I can post dozens of links to people who call the Bengals "mediocre" despite winning more games than most other teams and making the playoffs more than most other teams.  I have never claimed the Bengals were "great" because they made the playoffs.  All I have said is that they are better than "mediocre".  And this is not a strawman because I can post links to people using the term "mediocre" or as you said "so-so".

(06-19-2015, 11:05 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Lack of accountability is one of this teams bigger problems.

Except when Guenter criticized Geno's play last year people jumped Paulie for "Throwing Geno under the bus to cover his own ass."  The whiners are going to whine no matter what the coaches do.  If they don't criticize the players then they are not holding them responsible, but if they do criticize the players they are "throwing them under the bus."

(06-19-2015, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Another common strawman.

Claiming we did nothing to improve when we signed one of the top free agent DEs.

Yup, one that was cut by a woeful franchise desperate for top talent......

(06-19-2015, 02:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yup, one that was cut by a woeful franchise desperate for top talent......

Because of his salary, not his skill level.

(06-19-2015, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because of his salary, not his skill level.

Doesn't salary = skill level?

(06-19-2015, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because of his salary, not his skill level.

I dunno......he had a pretty shitty year.....he was cut after one year.....I think he's good opposite Dunlap and in this rotation, but I'm not sold he's a top FA after last season's performance.

(06-19-2015, 03:06 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Doesn't salary = skill level?

Where do you rank MJ among NFL DEs?

(06-19-2015, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where do you rank MJ among NFL DEs?

25th  :snark:

(06-19-2015, 03:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: I dunno......he had a pretty shitty year.....he was cut after one year.....I think he's good opposite Dunlap and in this rotation, but I'm not sold he's a top FA after last season's performance.

Obviously Lovie agreed - and he's not a stupid guy.

But he was injured early on and basically was injured the whole season.   And maybe part of the problem was that they were paying for a pass rusher and MJ is more of a full service DE - strong across the board but not the 5 star pass rusher they thought they were getting.

(06-19-2015, 03:18 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 25th  :snark:

And which four Buccaneer DEs do you currently have ranked ahead of him?

And how many of those ranked ahead of him were available in free agency this year?

(06-19-2015, 08:44 AM)Wyche Wrote: Bill Walsh was a known perfectionist......requiring players to run the same play over and over and over until every meticulous detail.....all the way down to footwork....was done exactly to his standards.  You did it until you got it right.  He may not have been a fire and brimstone kind of guy, but he was also known to regularly take jabs at any player, and call them out in front of the entire team.  He would cuss your ass in a minute.....watch the old film of him in practice.

With Belichick, it's all about the accountability.  One false step, and your ass is benched and/or shipped out.  He may not show emotion, but there is a fear there......

EDIT:  .....and Jim Mora has two USFL championships on his resume, and his teams played in all of the championship games in the league's history....

You honestly think Marvin doesn't have accountability? I got news for the people that think Marvin can't coach. You don't make 4 straight playoffs in any professional sport with a terrible coach, you don't put together one of the best rosters together in the NFl without having a GM without a good coach, and you don't make the playoffs with losing two coordinators and having key players going down like we did last season without a good coach.

(06-17-2015, 09:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13102615/cincinnati-bengals-look-shed-queen-city-bungles-label-tired


Good.....now do something about it!

Exactly!!!  I don't want to hear how they are going to do this or that, I want to see it!!!

(06-19-2015, 03:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And which four Buccaneer DEs do you currently have ranked ahead of him?

And how many of those ranked ahead of him were available in free agency this year?

I was just bustin' your balls about the salary thing.

I actually think MJ93 is a lot better than most people around here will give him credit for.

(06-19-2015, 03:25 PM)3wt Wrote: Obviously Lovie agreed - and he's not a stupid guy.

But he was injured early on and basically was injured the whole season.   And maybe part of the problem was that they were paying for a pass rusher and MJ is more of a full service DE - strong across the board but not the 5 star pass rusher they thought they were getting.

Good point.....

(06-19-2015, 03:55 PM)J24 Wrote: You honestly think Marvin doesn't have accountability? I got news for the people that think Marvin can't coach. You don't make 4 straight playoffs in any professional sport with a terrible coach, you don't put together one of the best rosters together in the NFl without having a GM without a good coach, and you don't make the playoffs with losing two coordinators and having key players going down like we did last season without a good coach.

It certainly doesn't appear that way, he was extended after 4-12, and some coaches have had a job since he arrived.....one was even a part of DAVE SHULA'S staff and a part of the lost decade.  Nobody ever said he wasn't *good*......but we're looking for excellence.  This 25 years of not winning a playoff game has worn razor thin......

.....and if it is indeed one of the best rosters in the NFL, then why can't they win ONE damn playoff game?  If it is such a good roster, then that must mean there's a coaching issue that is keeping such a fine roster from succeeding, wouldn't you agree?

(06-19-2015, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Another common strawman.

That's your word of the week isn't it? I think next week you should keep the vibe going but use the term "Spoonman" instead. It will give your comment a nice 90's grunge reference while proving your point!

(06-19-2015, 04:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: It certainly doesn't appear that way, he was extended after 4-12, and some coaches have had a job since he arrived.....one was even a part of DAVE SHULA'S staff and a part of the lost decade.  Nobody ever said he wasn't *good*......but we're looking for excellence.  This 25 years of not winning a playoff game has worn razor thin......

.....and if it is indeed one of the best rosters in the NFL, then why can't they win ONE damn playoff game?  If it is such a good roster, then that must mean there's a coaching issue that is keeping such a fine roster from succeeding, wouldn't you agree?

We have made the playoffs 4 straight seasons how does this not show the talent of this team?  I want a playoff win hell I want multiple championships but I know the solution isn't to fire the best thing that has happened to this organization in the past 24 years.

(06-19-2015, 04:53 PM)J24 Wrote: We have made the playoffs 4 straight seasons how does this not show the talent of this team?  I want a playoff win hell I want multiple championships but I know the solution isn't to fire the best thing that has happened to this organization in the past 24 years.

Either we don't have the talent to win in the postseason, or we are being outcoached.....it really doesn't get much simpler than that.  Judging by how flat and unprepared this team consistently looks in the postseason and primetime games, my opinion is it's the latter.

 Jim Mora was the best thing to EVER happen to the Saints ......until they moved on and won a Super Bowl that is......

(06-19-2015, 03:55 PM)J24 Wrote: You honestly think Marvin doesn't have accountability? I got news for the people that think Marvin can't coach. You don't make 4 straight playoffs in any professional sport with a terrible coach, you don't put together one of the best rosters together in the NFl without having a GM without a good coach, and you don't make the playoffs with losing two coordinators and having key players going down like we did last season without a good coach.

You don't lose 4 straight playoff games with one of the best rosters in the NFL if you CAN coach, either.

(06-19-2015, 04:53 PM)J24 Wrote: We have made the playoffs 4 straight seasons how does this not show the talent of this team?  I want a playoff win hell I want multiple championships but I know the solution isn't to fire the best thing that has happened to this organization in the past 24 years.

J24 the talent, for the most part hasn't been our problem.

You see the talent of the players can override poor/average coaching in the early and middle parts of the season. But as the weather grows cold and the stakes get higher near the end and in the post season that's where coaching has to show up ! That's where the game plan and knowing how to counteract/ out coach the opposition comes into the forefront.

If it was one, hell even two losses you could say it's just dumb luck or whatever. We're 0-6 and it's just like watching the same game over and over again ! 13 second half points J, think about that. Thirteen in 6 second halves ! Like Wyche says we've either drafted the 50 biggest choke artists players over the last decade or we have a coaching problem. It's either one or the other isn't it ? You choose