(06-19-2015, 03:32 PM)3wt Wrote: If Eric Thomas doesn't blow out his knee and if Deltha O'neal had played here earlier in his career might have been a different result.  Louis Breeden was also a close third.

It is shocking that Riley is not in the Hall of Fame.

Riley's snub by the hall is a crime.

I went with Riley and Hall for obvious reasons but my favorite Bengals corner of all time was Deltha in '05 and since I knew he wouldn't get the votes I had to give him one.

(06-19-2015, 05:30 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Now this was truly tough voting. Ultimately I had to go with Ken Riley, Louis Breeden and Leon Hall. However, I would have no problem with any of these guys making the team other than Deltha O'Neal.

How do you say Deltha doesn't deserve it but Eric Thomas does?

Deltha god an All Pro in 2005 and had 16 INTs in four seasons here to Thomas' 15 INTs in six years.

(06-19-2015, 11:45 PM)Wyche Wrote: Just think he was better, and was part of a dynamic tandem......the two (Breeden and Parrish) averaged about the same INTs/year while in stripes......Lemar went to eight pro bowls.....3 all pros.....2 2nd team all pros.......1979 defensive back of the year.......47 picks, 13 TDs.......2709 return yards.......Breeden was good, but the numbers don't compare, in my eyes.

They DO compare with Hall, and Hall is not done yet.  I project his numbers to be better ultimately, so I went with him.

I get where you went with this but you are talking about but you are factoring in things that happened once he was no longer a Cincinnati Bengal. This is the Bengals All-Time Team. You are also factoring in yardage and TDs not accrued as a CB but rather as a return man. Just because a guy is not a returner does not make him less of a CB.

Fun fact:

Tory James: 21 ints in 4 seasons
Deltha: 16 ints in 4 seasons
Leon: 24 ints in 8 seasons

(06-20-2015, 09:46 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fun fact:

Tory James: 21 ints in 4 seasons
Deltha: 16 ints in 4 seasons
Leon: 24 ints in 8 seasons

Leon is and was the better cover corner out of these 3. Troy got burned a ton but ended up with like 8 in one year.

ETA: Looking them up, Tory was quite productive overall and really flourished statistically here to end his career, yet for some reason he has this stigma for me as a someone who found the ball but was a poor man cover corner. I need to relive some of those games.

(06-20-2015, 06:53 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I get where you went with this but you are talking about but you are factoring in things that happened once he was no longer a Cincinnati Bengal. This is the Bengals All-Time Team. You are also factoring in yardage and TDs not accrued as a CB but rather as a return man. Just because a guy is not a returner does not make him less of a CB.

Yes, but he still had a ton of INTs, and the return yards just add to the overall package of a better player.  It's all subjective though....just one man's opinion.

(06-19-2015, 03:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is a cakewalk......

Hall, Riley, Parrish....

This^^^^^ Riley would love to have him now with hall, still can't figure why the rattler isn't in HOF.....

Riley, Parrish, and Hall. I'm not old enough to have gotten to watch the first two, but I've seen some videos of them, seen their stats, and seen how much other posters rave over them. I'm not really sure how Riley's numbers haven't gotten him into the HOF. Hall is just an amazingly solid player and one of my favorite Bengals ever.

(06-20-2015, 10:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, but he still had a ton of INTs, and the return yards just add to the overall package of a better player.  It's all subjective though....just one man's opinion.

Better returner does not mean better CB. I do agree it comes down to each persons opinion just trying to understand that thinking.

(06-20-2015, 09:51 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Leon is and was the better cover corner out of these 3. Troy got burned a ton but ended up with like 8 in one year.

ETA: Looking them up, Tory was quite productive overall and really flourished statistically here to end his career, yet for some reason he has this stigma for me as a someone who found the ball but was a poor man cover corner. I need to relive some of those games.

Passes defensed............If you look at the best three seasons with the Bengals for James and Hall you will find that Hall almost doubles James in this category. As a whole with the Bengals Hall had many more passes defensed than James had. Locating the ball and defensing the ball are very different.

(06-20-2015, 11:38 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Better returner does not mean better CB. I do agree it comes down to each persons opinion just trying to understand that thinking.

As CBs, it's a narrow margin....but the STs gives Lemar the edge.....

(06-20-2015, 11:56 AM)Wyche Wrote: As CBs, it's a narrow margin....but the STs gives Lemar the edge.....

I guess I am not considering return skills for position groups as I would hope that we are going to have an All-Time returner on this team as well. With that in mind I am looking at the skills of the player solely within his position group. The physical play of Breeden is what gave him the edge for me over Parrish as I think that tackling ability and physical play relates directly to the position.

(06-20-2015, 11:47 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Passes defensed............If you look at the best three seasons with the Bengals for James and Hall you will find that Hall almost doubles James in this category. As a whole with the Bengals Hall had many more passes defensed than James had. Locating the ball and defensing the ball are very different.

Tory averaged 14.8 passes defensed in his 4 years. Leon has averaged 13.0. I really wasn't trying to bash Leon. I'm just saying that Tory is underappreciated. I do think he was better than Deltha.

(06-20-2015, 12:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tory averaged 14.8 passes defensed in his 4 years. Leon has averaged 13.0. I really wasn't trying to bash Leon. I'm just saying that Tory is underappreciated. I do think he was better than Deltha.

2006 - Passes defensed ..... 10
2005 - Passes defensed ..... 8
2004 - Passes defensed ..... 5
2003 - Passes defensed ..... 14

I have not done the math but just looking at it I have a hard time believing the average is going to be greater than the highest season total.

http://www.nfl.com/player/toryjames/2501359/careerstats

(06-20-2015, 11:30 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Riley, Parrish, and Hall.  I'm not old enough to have gotten to watch the first two, but I've seen some videos of them, seen their stats, and seen how much other posters rave over them.  I'm not really sure how Riley's numbers haven't gotten him into the HOF.  Hall is just an amazingly solid player and one of my favorite Bengals ever.

This. Shake N Blake said he thought Hall was a tad overrated but us fans, but I beg to differ. I think Hall has been VASTLY underrated. Never flashy, but I feel he has had a lot of top 5 years with the Bengals that go unnoticed. Just like Whit.

Also, Riley belongs in the HOF.  

(06-20-2015, 02:11 PM)CharvelPlaya Wrote: Also, Riley belongs in the HOF.  

Perhaps no player has been more overlooked in the history of the NFL than Ken. He was never voted to an AFL All-Star game or NFL Pro Bowl. In 1976 Ken had 9 INTs for 141 yards and 1 TD. The 4 AFC CBs selected were: JT Thomas  (2 INTs 43 yards)  Lemar Parrish (2 INTs 0 yards) Mel Blount (6 INTs 73 yards) Mike Haynes (8 INTs 90 yards)

(06-20-2015, 09:46 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fun fact:

Tory James: 21 ints in 4 seasons
Deltha: 16 ints in 4 seasons
Leon: 24 ints in 8 seasons

I liked all those guys but ET was my favorite CB with the Bengals. 

I just wish i wasn't such a dummy and didn't see to pick 3. I only chose Riley and ET. Breeden would have been my 3rd choice. That dude was solid for a long time.

Thinking about it a little, i don't think you can necessarily rule out what Parrish did as a returner. If this is a "team", someone will have to do the returning; so you set yourself up well by choosing such a proven return guy while still getting a solid corner.

Unless we pick specialists. In that case, it wouldn't make nearly as much sense including Parrish's return game.

See how i pick a side and stick to it!?