Every year around this time of the season, fluff pieces begin to come out about various players on various teams.
So and So is faster, Player X gets it this year, Player Y (Clark) has bulked up this off season.

I'm used to this as we all are by this point.

BUT WHY do we discuss how Dalton can now:

"Get everyone lined up correctly.",
"Get our players in and out of the huddle.",
"Is taking more of a leadership role this season."

????

To me, this more than anything points to Dalton being a dud (And I am a huge Andy homer most of the time).

This is the equivalent of the teacher explaining on parent-teacher conference night that their child has improved this year.... by showing up to class with a pencil and putting his name on the top of the paper.

It's fricken year 5.
everyone better know where the hell to line up, and everyone better be getting in and out of the huddle like the seasoned vets they are.
Dalton better be a leader by now, and shouldn't have to help other vets figure out where to line up on a play.
We have a fricken playbook do we not?

I guess you have forgotten that he is going into only his second season in the offense of Hue Jackson? Yeah crazy how those things work. Hue is a different coordinator than Gruden was. His offense is different and his tempo is different. As much as some do not believe it the game is not just plug and play no matter what the circumstances.

(06-19-2015, 07:11 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Every year around this time of the season, fluff pieces begin to come out about various players on various teams.
So and So is faster, Player X gets it this year, Player Y (Clark) has bulked up this off season.

I'm used to this as we all are by this point.

BUT WHY do we discuss how Dalton can now:

"Get everyone lined up correctly.",
"Get our players in and out of the huddle.",
"Is taking more of a leadership role this season."

????

To me, this more than anything points to Dalton being a dud (And I am a huge Andy homer most of the time).

This is the equivalent of the teacher explaining on parent-teacher conference night that their child has improved this year.... by showing up to class with a pencil and putting his name on the top of the paper.

It's fricken year 5.
everyone better know where the hell to line up, and everyone better be getting in and out of the huddle like the seasoned vets they are.
Dalton better be a leader by now, and shouldn't have to help other vets figure out where to line up on a play.
We have a fricken playbook do we not?

Too be fair it must be harder than you think considering Andy very rarely if at all has delay of game penaltys whereas Palmer was good for what seemed like 1-2 drive killing delay of games  a game.

As another poster said.
2nd year in a system is a huge jump from the 1st year in a system. It is like that for most good QBs.
If you pay attention the the best QBs its no secret that they do not change OCs very often.

Andy improved over the 3 years under Gruden.
Should be similar.

(06-19-2015, 09:52 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I guess you have forgotten that he is going into only his second season in the offense of Hue Jackson? Yeah crazy how those things work. Hue is a different coordinator than Gruden was. His offense is different and his tempo is different. As much as some do not believe it the game is not just plug and play no matter what the circumstances.

I think the Coordinator excuse is a poor one. The NY Giants had a new coordinator last year and Eli had a career year in the first year of the new offense.

I just doubt they talk about Eli working on his leadership.

(06-19-2015, 11:02 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think the Coordinator excuse is a poor one. The NY Giants had a new coordinator last year and Eli had a career year in the first year of the new offense.

I just doubt they talk about Eli working on his leadership.

It's a fair one. Alex Smith was much further along than 5 years when he finally had stability at the OC position and he became a winning QB

(06-19-2015, 10:35 PM)a Junglejuice Wrote: Too be fair it must be harder than you think considering Andy very rarely if at all has delay of game penaltys whereas Palmer was good for what seemed like 1-2 drive killing delay of games  a game.

As another poster said.
2nd year in a system is a huge jump from the 1st year in a system. It is like that for most good QBs.
If you pay attention the the best QBs its no secret that they do not change OCs very often.

Andy improved over the 3 years under Gruden.
Should be similar.

^^^^^^ this I hope!!! Andy regressed last year, let's hope he comes out and plays like he did in 13. He has showed he can play imo it's being consistent. Sure he crapped the bed bad in Cleveland, Thursday night game, but we've seen him play a hell of a lot better on many occasions. Let's just hope he can do better his 2nd year under hue. WHO DEY!!!!

Nuts and bolts stuff is important, even for a veteran. If it means we have less penalties off the line and better protection and blocking during games I'm glad it is improving. Excellence is a habit.

(06-19-2015, 11:02 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think the Coordinator excuse is a poor one. The NY Giants had a new coordinator last year and Eli had a career year in the first year of the new offense.

I just doubt they talk about Eli working on his leadership.

The first 3rd of his year was highly forgettable.

OBJr going into hero mode prob had a lot to do with salvaging Manning's season.

(06-19-2015, 11:02 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think the Coordinator excuse is a poor one. The NY Giants had a new coordinator last year and Eli had a career year in the first year of the new offense.

I just doubt they talk about Eli working on his leadership.

Eli was in his 11th season with the same team. Pretty safe to say he was solidified himself as the leader of the franchise........

Eli as well did not have his "career" year last season. He threw for the most yards of his career but that could have very well been the product of having his greatest number of attempts per game. In virtually every other statistical category he has better stats in other seasons.

His completion % was career and that could have to do with the coordinator and using Eli to his strengths.

(06-20-2015, 12:03 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Eli was in his 11th season with the same team. Pretty safe to say he was solidified himself as the leader of the franchise........

Well this is kinda my point. What year is Andy finally the 'leader of the franchise'?

If he isn't at year 5 then he never will be IMO.

Just thought he would have a firm grasp on his leadership over the team at this point   and that we wouldn't have to discuss him trying in year 5 to be a leader.

But that comes with the playoff futility I suppose.







Besides, this entire thread wasn't about the effectiveness of the offense or the viability of coordinators or anything like that.

I guess my issue is if we call a play in the huddle, the guys line up in their spots, so who does Andy have to inform on where to go?

Why does Andy have to "get guys in the right spots"? Shouldn't they already know where the right spot is?

If Andy has to put a guy in motion or tweak something then great, but they make it sound like he has to tell AJ, "HEY THIS PLAY YOU GO ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE FIELD OK DUMMY."

I'm probably just confused by what the coaches really mean by the phrase.

(06-20-2015, 12:25 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Well this is kinda my point. What year is Andy finally the 'leader of the franchise'?

If he isn't at year 5 then he never will be IMO.

Just thought he would have a firm grasp on his leadership over the team at this point   and that we wouldn't have to discuss him trying in year 5 to be a leader.

But that comes with the playoff futility I suppose.







Besides, this entire thread wasn't about the effectiveness of the offense or the viability of coordinators or anything like that.

I guess my issue is if we call a play in the huddle, the guys line up in their spots, so who does Andy have to inform on where to go?

Why does Andy have to "get guys in the right spots"? Shouldn't they already know where the right spot is?

If Andy has to put a guy in motion or tweak something then great, but they make it sound like he has to tell AJ, "HEY THIS PLAY YOU GO ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE FIELD OK DUMMY."

I'm probably just confused by what the coaches really mean by the phrase.

I would say that every single week in the NFL you will see multiple times that QBs will have to redirect players to the proper position on the field. Heck look how many times you will see receivers missing the fact that they are covering the end of the line or not covering the end of the line. Resulting in penalties.

I do not think there is any question at all that Andy is the leader of the team and this has been acknowledged by the players. However, this does not mean that he cannot continue to become a better leader.

All the criticisms of Andy are identical or not as severe as the attacks on Ken Anderson following the 1980 season

I think we drafted the throwing Samoan Jack Thompson to replace Anderson.

Anderson talked his way into keeping the starting job and then had probably the best season in 1981 of any QB in Bengal history.

Let's hope it works that way with Andy this season.

He is a great kid and I would be thrilled if history repeated itself. 

Bengals are saying that McCarron is a starting quality QB.

Maybe this will be more than enoug incentive for Dalton to get shit done.

(06-21-2015, 01:12 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Bengals are saying that McCarron is a starting quality QB.

Maybe this will be more than enoug incentive for Dalton to get shit done.

I sure hope you have a link to backup this statement.

(06-21-2015, 08:14 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I sure hope you have a link to backup this statement.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/6/20/8818693/bengals-believe-aj-mccarron-can-be-starting-caliber-qb-in-nfl

(06-21-2015, 09:06 AM)Se ky bengal Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/6/20/8818693/bengals-believe-aj-mccarron-can-be-starting-caliber-qb-in-nfl

Did you read that article or just the headline? The article does not show a single quote from a member of the Bengals staff to backup the headline. The closest thing they showed from a staff member was Hue stating he was doing a good job in the practices.

(06-21-2015, 01:12 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Bengals are saying that McCarron is a starting quality QB.

Maybe this will be more than enoug incentive for Dalton to get shit done.

Dalton's problems have nothing to do with "lack of incentive".

(06-21-2015, 11:45 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Did you read that article or just the headline? The article does not show a single quote from a member of the Bengals staff to backup the headline. The closest thing they showed from a staff member was Hue stating he was doing a good job in the practices.

Yea , I read it. You asked for a link, I posted it!!! I don't see AJ getting ahead of Dalton,to take his starting position. Although it is nice to at least think we might have a capable back up. Adam jones, Wallace Gilberry also said he looked impressive. 

(06-19-2015, 07:11 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Every year around this time of the season, fluff pieces begin to come out about various players on various teams.
So and So is faster, Player X gets it this year, Player Y (Clark) has bulked up this off season.

I'm used to this as we all are by this point.

BUT WHY do we discuss how Dalton can now:

"Get everyone lined up correctly.",
"Get our players in and out of the huddle.",
"Is taking more of a leadership role this season."

????

To me, this more than anything points to Dalton being a dud (And I am a huge Andy homer most of the time).

This is the equivalent of the teacher explaining on parent-teacher conference night that their child has improved this year.... by showing up to class with a pencil and putting his name on the top of the paper.

It's fricken year 5.
everyone better know where the hell to line up, and everyone better be getting in and out of the huddle like the seasoned vets they are.
Dalton better be a leader by now, and shouldn't have to help other vets figure out where to line up on a play.
We have a fricken playbook do we not?

I'm no Andy homer, but I also don't grade him as a bad QB either. Just can't stand it when people compare him to the elite QBs in the league when simple observation tells you that he hasn't made the grade yet.

But in all fairness, I've seen Brady have to get after guys about where to line up and I've seen Dalton do it in games. It's more of a function of how green the other guys are. I don't see Whit, AJ Green, Smith or Eifert or Hill or Bernard needing to be told where to go very often.

As you mentioned, this is year 5 and he'll either progress or he won't. There's nothing you or I or anyone on this board is going to say to change that. It's up to him and the team and the number of years the team and fans are going to hang in there with Dalton until he does it is rather limited. He's already lost a chunk of the fans.

(06-21-2015, 03:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton's problems have nothing to do with "lack of incentive".

No they don't. He's got about 100M incentives to overcome his problems.