(03-23-2016, 04:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: ive seen him put them out...  So i dont know if hes not able to hit it consistany or we have such faith in our coverage team (who are pretty good)   to try and bait them into a return

I think that's generally when he has the wind at hit back, but I don't have any stats or anything to back that up. Nugent isn't exactly the most strong legged kicker in the NFL.

Nugent struggles to get it out of the endzone. Maybe he can practice getting hangtime to the 1 now.

Easy answer. Replace the Kick off with a punt. Still get all the potential excitement of a return without having 11 guys running full speed down the field when they smash into the blockers.

(03-23-2016, 07:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Easy answer.  Replace the Kick off with a punt.  Still get all the potential excitement of a return without having 11 guys running full speed down the field when they smash into the blockers.

How do you "onsides punt"?

(03-23-2016, 07:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How do you "onsides punt"?

Gain 10 yards on a fake punt.

I think that would probably be easier than recovering an onsides kick (just my opinion) which means teams might try it more often.  This would add even more excitement and make big comebacks more possible.

(03-23-2016, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A high, hanging kickoff to the goal line is MUCH more effective than a line drive several yards deep even under the odl rules.

I saw one special teams coach that taught his return men to count hang time.  There was a certain number of seconds of hang time that determined if he returned the ball.  It didn't matter how deep he was in the end zone.

Well that makes sense, but I'm fairly certain that Tate cannot count then.

(03-23-2016, 12:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'm not a fan of this change. Absolutely no need for it IMO.

They're just trying to "make the game safer" and make sure no one gets hurt.

Just another move towards eventual flag football.

It was ballsy to bring kickoffs out of the endzone as-is, which made it exciting to watch.

(03-23-2016, 01:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, absolutely hate the move. Was bad enough the last couple years, this is even worse.

To the OP, i doubt Tate makes the team if we bring in Lafell and a Draft pick. This takes lots of Tate's importance away
which was he was sure handed and an ok returner. He was not near as bad as some say but we could definately improve
the position. Adam, Alford, Lafell and hopefully a speedy Draft pick make Tate extremely expendable.

But we've said that in the past and somehow he always ends up making the team, making stupid decisions, being a horrible returner, and taking years off my life.

Maybe this is the year.

I would rather have a tired Adam out there after a series of defense than to watch Tate another down.

(03-23-2016, 03:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have read where this rule might actually increase returns. Pretty much Special teams were OK with giving you the 20, but not the 25. Kickers are going to be coached to put more air under the kick and have in fielded in the field of play.

I saw that, too:

Quote:Last season the NFL saw 41.1 percent of kickoffs returned. Expect that number to increase with the touchback being moved five yards forward.

I figured that had to be a misprint because why would you risk a return if you'd automatically get it at the 25?  Kickers could kick it inside the 5 if they made it higher, but kickoffs aren't as easy as punts to place exactly where you want or even get a lot of air under it.  Also, a returner could time it so he starts deep in the endzone, gets a jogging or running start, catches it on the run, and be full-speed (or close to it) when he catches it, making it a lot more difficult to cover.

Honestly, I don't see why they don't just take the kickoff out of the game, which would suck because it ruins an awesome part of the game, but I see it heading in that direction.  

Man, all these rule changes can be hard to keep up with.  Every year it seems like they soften the game, just a little bit more.

I have an idea.  How about for two random weeks, they have "throwback" week, similar to teams wearing the throwback jerseys.  Only in this case, they play by throwback rules, from the 1970s.

Could be fun, just imagine Adam Jones all slathered up in stickem, from head to toe, or Dunlap being allowed to take two or three entire steps after the QB releases the ball, and just unloading on him?

(03-24-2016, 12:11 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Man, all these rule changes can be hard to keep up with.  Every year it seems like they soften the game, just a little bit more.

I have an idea.  How about for two random weeks, they have "throwback" week, similar to teams wearing the throwback jerseys.  Only in this case, they play by throwback rules, from the 1970s.

Could be fun, just imagine Adam Jones all slathered up in stickem, from head to toe, or Dunlap being allowed to take two or three entire steps after the QB releases the ball, and just unloading on him?

Meh, everyone loves the idea of old-time, QB-killing football until their QB is the one being intentionally slammed into the turf.  Just saying.

(03-24-2016, 12:42 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, everyone loves the idea of old-time, QB-killing football until their QB is the one being intentionally slammed into the turf.  Just saying.

Ken Anderson and Andy Dalton are the same size (6'2", 215), but the front four of the "Steel Curtain" averaged less than 260 lbs (DT Joe Green 275, DT Ernie Holmes 260, DE L.C. Greenwood 245, DE Dwight White 255).

DT Ernie Holmes is the same size as Antonio Gates (6'4", 260)

(03-23-2016, 11:20 AM)BengalChris Wrote: With touch backs coming out to the 25 will the team finally sour on Tate's returns from deep in the end zone?

Good question.

One can only hope. I personally think starting at the 25 is garbage, since the kickoff was moved up and almost every kick will result in touchbacks. Were basically giving offenses better starting field position because of this change.

Don't even get me started on the notion that they want to get rid of kickoffs entirely. Another dumb idea from the No Fun League.  

(03-23-2016, 01:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why not just get rid of the kick return completely if it's so dangerous? Just start every drive from the 20.

Starting from the 25 just looks like the league's way of increasing scoring while giving the appearance that they're concerned with safety.

I'm sick of major changes every year. Changing the PAT was stupid too. XP's are supposed to be easy. That's why it's a big deal when a team misses one.

I actually like the change to the PAT.  I think it was over 99% that were made in prior years, so why even have it?  If you're going to have the play, the danger of guys banging into each other, make it at least somewhat of a challenge.  Just my thought, but I think it was good.

Some people hate change even if it is for the better.

75 years ago kicking a PAT from the 3 yard line may have been interesting, but for years now it has been a waste of time. I am glad they moved it back to the 15. Otherwise they should ahve just eliminated it.

(03-24-2016, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Some people hate change even if it is for the better.

75 years ago kicking a PAT from the 3 yard line may have been interesting, but for years now it has been a waste of time.  I am glad they moved it back to the 15.  Otherwise they should ahve just eliminated it.

I was 100% for eliminating it. I like the idea of just giving the team a point or making them go for two. I just really really hate the idea of two great teams going at it and one losing because the PAT is now 85% instead of 99.5%. 

I get the arguments against that, but I'd rather see two good teams showdown to the wire instead of one winning on a fluke. The loss would feel "hollow," if you will. 

Basically, Marvin (who is on the competition committee that proposed this) said they came up with it for that specific reason - no more returns when the guy is 8-9 yards deep. They want that decision taken away from them. So, I would think if he feels that way for all 32 teams, he would feel that way about his (except if Adam is back there).

Smart teams will begin to have their kickers "pooch it" high and just short of the goal line....something Nugent does quite well. As many burners as this team has on special teams, I would much rather see this approach than a free start at the 25.

(03-24-2016, 10:37 AM)MrRager Wrote: I was 100% for eliminating it. I like the idea of just giving the team a point or making them go for two. I just really really hate the idea of two great teams going at it and one losing because the PAT is now 85% instead of 99.5%. 

I get the arguments against that, but I'd rather see two good teams showdown to the wire instead of one winning on a fluke. The loss would feel "hollow," if you will. 

hire a better kicker they will if happen that does

(03-24-2016, 05:10 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Basically, Marvin (who is on the competition committee that proposed this) said they came up with it for that specific reason - no more returns when the guy is 8-9 yards deep. They want that decision taken away from them. So, I would think if he feels that way for all 32 teams, he would feel that way about his (except if Adam is back there).

I caught a slight at Tate there Jim.

(03-24-2016, 01:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Ken Anderson and Andy Dalton are the same size (6'2", 215), but the front four of the "Steel Curtain" averaged less than 260 lbs (DT Joe Green 275, DT Ernie Holmes 260, DE L.C. Greenwood 245, DE Dwight White 255).

DT Ernie Holmes is the same size as Antonio Gates (6'4", 260)

You're telling me if Shazier, Harrison, and Mitchell intentionally put Dalton on the IR all the "Football used to be so tough!" Bengals fans wouldn't be shedding tears of joy?!

(03-23-2016, 03:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have read where this rule might actually increase returns. Pretty much Special teams were OK with giving you the 20, but not the 25. Kickers are going to be coached to put more air under the kick and have in fielded in the field of play.

Believe this will be exactly how teams approach this rule change an that means it will probably be more unsafe.

Silly rule imo and believe kickoffs are part of the game and should not be changed. 

This tweaking will not hurt anything really but will not change much either. 

This is why I call it silly.