(04-04-2016, 10:10 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: thought i heard him mocking someone for calling out to daddy... then saying dads taking it like a champ

Im gonna say no one died but rick had the holy hell beaten out of him.

No way nobody dies. That would just neuter Negan.

The more I think about it, the more I convidei myself that they pussed out and went with Abraham.

(04-04-2016, 10:54 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: No way nobody dies. That would just neuter Negan.

The more I think about it, the more I convidei myself that they pussed out and went with Abraham.

Yeah probly.... especially after he had a character growth moment.

Eugene i could see as well.

end of a bromance.

(04-04-2016, 10:52 AM)Benton Wrote: It's a show about zombies. At the end of the day, I don't think they care about cinema or storytelling.

Ending it this isn't good storytelling, but it's hellacious marketing. For a couple weeks, people are going to talk about it. For a few months, your Facebook feed is going to be filled with frame after frame breakdowns and filtered audio where you can hear a cast member at the food truck saying "Damn, ********** really won't be back?" And then in the summer, when new contracts for shows and movie production starts. All leading up to mid fall, when they'll start running promos of every character looking forlorn.

And while that keep the water churned, it keeps people buying their merch and visiting their web sites for info.

With regards to the bolded, what made this more than a zombie show was the story telling and character development early on. They cared about cinematography and storytelling. They have abandoned a lot of that. They randomly change up characters and, as an article I read put it, make you feel like you missed a few episodes when really you didn't. "Wait, why are they now together" or "why is she acting so out of character all the sudden?".

As for the rest, I agree. They now care more about marketing than story telling. One article basically said "I can't hate it because the revenue TWD generates for AMC allows them to make a lot of their better shows that don't garner the same audiences". 

(04-04-2016, 11:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: With regards to the bolded, what made this more than a zombie show was the story telling and character development early on. They cared about cinematography and storytelling. They have abandoned a lot of that. They randomly change up characters and, as an article I read put it, make you feel like you missed a few episodes when really you didn't. "Wait, why are they now together" or "why is she acting so out of character all the sudden?".

As for the rest, I agree. They now care more about marketing than story telling. One article basically said "I can't hate it because the revenue TWD generates for AMC allows them to make a lot of their better shows that don't garner the same audiences". 

To the bold, agreed. And it's unfortunate. It's why I looked forward to the show. Some of the shots during the farm episodes were outstanding, and the first two episodes were great on both fronts. But that's steadily fallen away to the point of "we're just going to do tight shots in some small town back alley" or just throwing a lot more blood on something.

After reading here and some articles.


Maybe the show hasn't decided yet. Which is lazy as hell. But it almost makes sense. Daryl is fan favorite, face of the show's mobile app and probably best merchandise mover.

They played Schroedinger's Glenn earlier in the season, is his death really all that effective? It sure could have been if it actually happened at the end of that episode, but after a summer of waiting?

I would miss Abraham's ***** nuts and other colorful commentary (speaking of which, why was Negan so tame?) but still, his death wouldn't live up to the hype.


It still irks me. We all knew that with Negan coming someone important was gonna die. They admitted it in the build up, all the interviews, the talking dead episodes. Now instead of a summer of thinking about how they'll continue, we get to analyze cast lists and reports about who is on set.




And Carol should have killed herself in front of Morgan.

If it is anyone but a main character that met Lucille, then this will be a terrible cliffhanger. Only way they could justify it imo is it being Glenn, Darryl, or Michonne. Heck even Carl but I dont see that happening. I dont think it is Michonne because she is simply a woman in a world scarce of them. A Darryl death long before the series final season will alienate a lot of fans away from the show. So imo that leaves Glenn. His death will be central to next season which was mentioned on Talkin Dead, and will also reflect the comics (from what I heard).

On a side note, next season already looks to be another repeat of the season dealing with the Governor. Obviously different to a point, but will be about the ebb & flow with Negans group all year, plotting ways to destroy him, then eventually a final battle in the season finale. And Rick is leader of all the local communities that came together to take down Negan. I havent even read the comics, and this already seems predictable. At some point this show needs to wrap up, and have some sort of a light at end of tunnel in the next the couple of years. The longer it goes on, the more likely it wont go out on top.

(04-04-2016, 12:33 PM)Millhouse Wrote: If it is anyone but a main character that met Lucille, then this will be a terrible cliffhanger. Only way they could justify it imo is it being Glenn, Darryl, or Michonne. Heck even Carl but I dont see that happening. I dont think it is Michonne because she is simply a woman in a world scarce of them. A Darryl death long before the series final season will alienate a lot of fans away from the show. So imo that leaves Glenn. His death will be central to next season which was mentioned on Talkin Dead, and will also reflect the comics (from what I heard).

On a side note, next season already looks to be another repeat of the season dealing with the Governor. Obviously different to a point, but will be about the ebb & flow with Negans group all year, plotting ways to destroy him, then eventually a final battle in the season finale. And Rick is leader of all the local communities that came together to take down Negan. I havent even read the comics, and this already seems predictable. At some point this show needs to wrap up, and have some sort of a light at end of tunnel in the next the couple of years. The longer it goes on, the more likely it wont go out on top.

It's turning into Lost imo.

(04-04-2016, 12:42 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's turning into Lost imo.

Ehhh, a lot of criticism of Lost is fair, but it at least worked toward a conclusion and didn't repeat story lines (even if it did frequently hit the "reset" button).

TWD has been entertaining enough so long as you didn't expect too much.  Now they are just milking the cash cow and season after season goes by with basically nothing happening in the way of moving toward a conclusion or finale.

Gilligan's Island is honestly a much better comparison, on multiple levels.

(04-04-2016, 12:53 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Ehhh, a lot of criticism of Lost is fair, but it at least worked toward a conclusion and didn't repeat story lines (even if it did frequently hit the "reset" button).

TWD has been entertaining enough so long as you didn't expect too much.  Now they are just milking the cash cow and season after season goes by with basically nothing happening in the way of moving toward a conclusion or finale.

Gilligan's Island is honestly a much better comparison, on multiple levels.

Well, it is based off of the comics, which haven't ended (at least I don't think they have, I quit reading around issue 60ish). So it's not like Lost where they supposedly had an ending planned and were headed there, or MASH where you know eventually the war ends. This is more like a Doctor Who, where you have an arc that plays out over a season or two, then it moves on.

Unfortunately, they don't have as much depth as their source material, so it's getting to be more about filling up time.

Haha just saw this

(04-04-2016, 01:06 PM)Benton Wrote: Unfortunately, they don't have as much depth as their source material, so it's getting to be more about filling up time.

I get all that.  But you've already got a good outline for a story adaptation - so sucking at filling in gaps and developing characters is really pretty pathetic.

I think this may test their viewership.  The Governor story line was very poorly executed in terms of acting and writing, but despite Negan being way  more awesome this is basically recycling the same story arc.

A good show based on an adaptation of books or another series or whatever would have a plan. The Governor/Negan story lines would have been consolidated (which solves a huge part of your issue with source material).

Because the comics will probably continue on for a good while after the show has to end.  This has been 6-7 seasons now - it's time to start moving this sucker to conclusion.

I just hope they wrap-up the Negan story line quickly (I know, I know).  No interest in watching Rick cry for a season and a half about the Rictatorship getting overthrown by a bigger, badder dude.

So... basically surviving a zombie apocalypse and using tactics to combat other people goes right out of the window?

Why do you suppose Rick and his group of idiots blindly jump into one vehicle and go for a ride?

That right there was some stupid shit.

They acted like a bunch of rookies.

So why all of a sudden does Morgan shoot to kill after all of his incessant whining of "circle of life"?

Just more out of character moves that I'm sure will get excused away by supposed character development.

(04-04-2016, 02:04 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: So...  basically surviving a zombie apocalypse and using tactics to combat other people goes right out of the window?

Why do you suppose Rick and his group of idiots blindly jump into one vehicle and go for a ride?

That right there was some stupid shit.

They acted like a bunch of rookies.

So why all of a sudden does Morgan shoot to kill after all of his incessant whining of "circle of life"?

Just more out of character moves that I'm sure will get excused away by supposed character development.

That goes into their country mouse vs city mouse view of things. They thought they were the big fish, that they'd killed Negan and would be getting supplies from Hilltop. Rick was starting his own protection racket. He didn't realize that Negan's operation was much bigger, much more organized.

Morgan and others acting out of character is more about how the world changes them. They develop the characters to  create drama by breaking them down. I'm not saying it's a good way of doing it, but it's part of it being a drama series and not an action series.

(04-04-2016, 02:12 PM)Benton Wrote: That goes into their country mouse vs city mouse view of things. They thought they were the big fish, that they'd killed Negan and would be getting supplies from Hilltop. Rick was starting his own protection racket. He didn't realize that Negan's operation was much bigger, much more organized.

Morgan and others acting out of character is more about how the world changes them. They develop the characters to  create drama by breaking them down. I'm not saying it's a good way of doing it, but it's part of it being a drama series and not an action series.

His "circle of life" was pretty much a day maybe two before that.

It just seems lazy.

I didn't even mention the worst thing...

As a viewer am I really supposed to believe that Rick trusts the preacher with Judith's life.

I'm sorry. That part is unfathomable.

The first time they pulled that one out...  it was like "Yeeeeah riiiiight".

LMAO not very good writing in my opinion.

(04-04-2016, 02:04 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Just more out of character moves that I'm sure will get excused away by supposed character development.

People do evolve.  The show doesn't do a whole lot well/right, but the evolution of Carol and Morgan are better than most.


Agree that Rick is an idiot.  Basically a podunk-Sheriff that know little-to-nothing about military tactics and strategy.  Horrible miscalculations - the Governor had a frickin' tank and Rick learned nothing from that experience, so he will repeat it.

Of course, if Rick wasn't an idiot leading an underdog there wouldn't be much of a story.  But in reality you'd have to assume there are more than a few military types out there, running around with large, experienced and ruthless groups.  Your little band of women, children, rednecks and assorted misfits doesn't stand a chance.

(04-04-2016, 02:12 PM)Benton Wrote: That goes into their country mouse vs city mouse view of things. They thought they were the big fish, that they'd killed Negan and would be getting supplies from Hilltop. Rick was starting his own protection racket. He didn't realize that Negan's operation was much bigger, much more organized.

Yeah, that part they did pretty well.  Negan is even sporting a similar beard - basically the guy Rick was trying to become.

Negan just "gets it' so much better than Rick.  If things were reversed, Rick would have killed every one of them.  Rick wants to keep his "family" safe.  Negan is running a military operation and accepts losses.  But a military operation needs supplies.


On a related note, now that they are about to most, if not all, their guns and ammo....Eugene's bullet-making operation would be critical.  Good thing Negan didn't kill both Eugene and Abraham.

LOL I tuned into the last episode after giving up on most of the season. Part of the reason I gave up on the show was because of the stupid crap they pulled in the finale. I must say, im giving this show up for good now. Im sick of them trying to misdirect the audience. Im sick of cliffhangers. Why cant they just make a quality show and not rely on cliffhangers or misdirection to keep people tuned in? Its getting old.

The crap they did with Glenn and the dumpster was the first straw, and this is now the last straw. Show sucks.

(04-04-2016, 12:33 PM)Millhouse Wrote: If it is anyone but a main character that met Lucille, then this will be a terrible cliffhanger. Only way they could justify it imo is it being Glenn, Darryl, or Michonne. Heck even Carl but I dont see that happening. I dont think it is Michonne because she is simply a woman in a world scarce of them. A Darryl death long before the series final season will alienate a lot of fans away from the show. So imo that leaves Glenn. His death will be central to next season which was mentioned on Talkin Dead, and will also reflect the comics (from what I heard).

On a side note, next season already looks to be another repeat of the season dealing with the Governor. Obviously different to a point, but will be about the ebb & flow with Negans group all year, plotting ways to destroy him, then eventually a final battle in the season finale. And Rick is leader of all the local communities that came together to take down Negan. I havent even read the comics,  and this already seems predictable. At some point this show needs to wrap up, and have some sort of a light at end of tunnel in the next the couple of years. The longer it goes on, the more likely it wont go out on top.

Every season is the same. Find shelter, run into bad guy, shelter is threatened, defeat bad guy. 

They need a new damn story line. Theres gotta be someone creative enough on that set to think outside the box and mix things up a little bit. 

(04-04-2016, 02:38 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Tuned into the last episode. I must say, im giving this show up. Im sick of them trying to misdirect the audience. Im sick of cliffhangers. Why cant they just make a quality show and not rely on cliffhangers or misdirection to keep people tuned in? Its getting old.

I find that most of the characters bore me and have run their course, and some like Carol and Morgan have gotten downright annoying.  Daryl is the only one I care about, and he's had a pretty limited role this season.

So the cliffhanger doesn't bother me because, quite honestly, I couldn't care less who died.  But I hope it's Glenn - always thought Maggie could do better


Negan and Jesus are interesting dudes, and as a viewer I want to see more of them.

(04-04-2016, 01:34 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I get all that.  But you've already got a good outline for a story adaptation - so sucking at filling in gaps and developing characters is really pretty pathetic.

I think this may test their viewership.  The Governor story line was very poorly executed in terms of acting and writing, but despite Negan being way  more awesome this is basically recycling the same story arc.

A good show based on an adaptation of books or another series or whatever would have a plan. The Governor/Negan story lines would have been consolidated (which solves a huge part of your issue with source material).

Because the comics will probably continue on for a good while after the show has to end.  This has been 6-7 seasons now - it's time to start moving this sucker to conclusion.

I just hope they wrap-up the Negan story line quickly (I know, I know).  No interest in watching Rick cry for a season and a half about the Rictatorship getting overthrown by a bigger, badder dude.

The best thing to happen to that show would be for Rick to die. You could take the show in so many other directions if that were to happen. I know this would never happen but just think about it.