Lapham thinks the Bengals could go CB in the first if a guy like Apple is there so I fully expect him or William Jackson to be the pick. Wouldn't mind Jackson but I just don't see Apple as a first round guy and I am a buckeye fan. Lapham was all over Ogbuehi and Fisher for us last year in the first and we drafted both. He also had Eifert a couple years ago when no one thought we would take another tight end.

(04-20-2016, 09:15 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: Lapham thinks the Bengals could go CB in the first if a guy like Apple is there so I fully expect him or William Jackson to be the pick. Wouldn't mind Jackson but I just don't see Apple as a first round guy and I am a buckeye fan. Lapham was all over Ogbuehi and Fisher for us last year in the first and we drafted both. He also had Eifert a couple years ago when no one thought we would take another tight end.

I'm a buckeye fan too and when Apple first declared I was surprised. If he had stayed in I think he would have been a top 10 pick next season if he progressed like I think he would have. He definitely has the talent but isn't ready to be a day one starter, luckily if we draft him he won't have to so I could get on board. That said there are probably 24 other players at better positions that I'd rather take in the first

Yeah, i am prepared. I would not be that happy about Apple even if he is talented.

I like William Jackson III mucho better. It is something we have come to expect even if we think we are loaded
at Corner which we are not with Kirkpatrick's lackluster play last season. As Hobspin always says, you can never
have enough Corners. Yeah yah can, but still would not be a terrible pick. Probably a good one.

Its just i want Billings in stripes or Coleman or Doctson or a pass rusher more right now. Yah never know if a
talent like Lawson falls either.

Center won't happen i am sure which is why i left that guy out.

After Lapham's predictions have came true or atleast very close every year you have to acknowledge him.

Ugh.

Just... ugh.

I'd be upset if that were the case, honestly. We have Jones, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and Shaw. We have at least 3 of those CBs after next season.

Plus I like next year's cornerback draft class better than this year. Jalen Tabor, Jabrill Peppers, Tre'Davious White, Desmond King. There's 4 guys right now that I'd love in stripes.

There's no 1st round corner I'd really like outside of Jackson and Mackensie. But even then I'd prefer Billings, Docston, Treadwell, Coleman, Lee, Ogbah, Kelly, and a few others.

We have needs that need to be met right now. We have a hole in the wide receiver position and defensive tackle keeps getting ignored.

I'm hoping we go DE/DT in the first. We are a couple of pieces away from a quarterback-murdering line.

I'm resigned to the fact that we need to restock the DL and in a draft chock full of DL talent... we're probably going to pick a WR or CB.

(04-20-2016, 10:07 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I'd be upset if that were the case, honestly. We have Jones, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and Shaw. We have at least 3 of those CBs after next season.

Plus I like next year's cornerback draft class better than this year. Jalen Tabor, Jabrill Peppers, Tre'Davious White, Desmond King. There's 4 guys right now that I'd love in stripes.

There's no 1st round corner I'd really like outside of Jackson and Mackensie. But even then I'd prefer Billings, Docston, Treadwell, Coleman, Lee, Ogbah, Kelly, and a few others.

We have needs that need to be met right now. We have a hole in the wide receiver position and defensive tackle keeps getting ignored.

You said it better than me Wolf.

I would be upset, it is just something i have gotten used to and wouldn't be surprised.

It is not that William Jackson III or Mackensie Alexander would be bad picks it is just we have other holes and
there are better players at those positions to be had in the 1st round this year. You named them.

Dennard, Shaw and CLH all played pretty damn well in limited time last year.

(04-20-2016, 10:10 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I'm hoping we go DE/DT in the first.  We are a couple of pieces away from a quarterback-murdering line.

Same here. Want to see this badly.

(04-20-2016, 10:11 PM)Benton Wrote: I'm resigned to the fact that we need to restock the DL and in a draft chock full of DL talent... we're probably going to pick a WR or CB.

I'm for anything that keeps Dre Kirkpatrick from covering a good WR. I'd have zero issue with McKenzie Alexander or Kendall Fuller at 24.

Get those rumors going to build up for a trade back.

Steelers will definitely be looking at CBs. Panthers need on pretty bad now too. If teams are afraid we are going CB too maybe they call us

You can never have enough corners, but I remember (I believe) that they were happy with how Shaw was progressing (I might be hallucinating, though).

I think a small school guy like Mike Jordan from Missouri Western would be a hell of a steal late, so we don't have to spend an early pick on one, and I think he'll succeed at the pro level.

(04-20-2016, 09:15 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: Lapham thinks the Bengals could go CB in the first if a guy like Apple is there so I fully expect him or William Jackson to be the pick. Wouldn't mind Jackson but I just don't see Apple as a first round guy and I am a buckeye fan. Lapham was all over Ogbuehi and Fisher for us last year in the first and we drafted both. He also had Eifert a couple years ago when no one thought we would take another tight end.

I always give us a 40-60 chance of taking a corner in the first round. Higher than that if we actually need one.

Given that Kirkpatrick is so-so, Dennard is coming off an injury and Hall is done, I'm not that surprised.

If the players we want more are gone, this very well could be the team's pick.

I think a lot of us are beating a dead horse with this, but it makes roster logic ONLY if all players are similar at the pick for a few reasons:

1. The CB position still has more question marks and potential than the substance that we'd like to have. Jones was a great band aid, but he's a short term fix that ideally should have a few less snaps given his age and need in returning punts. Dre is a descent young corner without a long term deal, but he looks more like the type you let someone overpay than someone you throw guaranteed money at to keep them off the market. Dennard looks solid but is coming off the injury, and Shaw should have his own thread if he doesn't already. Do they see him as a situational type on bigger targets like they used Hall, or do they trust him to backup the outside and start if needed? They could stand to take a corner, how high though?

2. Even if you don't put CB as the TOP need, the talent pool is deep at other needs like the WR and DL so maybe they get CB out of the way first. DT is very deep and in general they haven't been drafting DT's in the 1st in recent years. If you look at any random 7 round mock, you likely get to say the late 4th round and say "I can't believe (insert DT name) is still here". Depending on what they think of a guy like Braxton, maybe he adds to the say 5 or 6 WR's worth thinking about in the 2nd.

3. CB is one of those money positions they tend to draft high. In the same respect, you may like a certain center or safety high, but they tend to draft them lower. They draft the corners high because they don't want to be paying a premium on the market and have to throw a rookie in there to fill a need. Taking a year to groom a 1st round corner gives stability long term to that position.


DISCLAIMER: I absolutely hate the flawed strategy I hear fans (typically Browns ones) us in calling the round first. Like "we need to take a OT 1st and then RB in the 2nd and CB in the 3rd. Those are our needs." There is a difference between projecting depth at a position and just ranking your needs and taking the best of that position at that pick. Maybe you fill your need but pass on 20 better prospects at other position.

Bottom line is that if you think Billings is a true beast you take him no matter how deep the DT position is. If you see Lee as a star in the making, you take him no matter if you have Burfict at WLB and have done well with late round gems rather than using high picks. You even take Elliott even if he is at one of your deepest positions if you see him as a rare value at RB. A stud prospect will trump trying to overthink the draft. Every time I look at mocks and simulators I think a lot of us see similarities in where the depth is, but it isn't a rule just a forecast. If Apple or Jackson are "their guy" then they take them. I'm still debating the Jackson pick. I love having a player that plays solid man coverage, but I still think they'll have reservations about his support via the run. Yes we should be prepared to not be shocked by them selecting a corner, but with as many 1st round WR targets that they've looked at it's VERY open.

Good.  I wouldn't mind a corner in the 1st in the least bit.  The fact that the Squealers are hounding for a CB in 1 just makes it that much juicier.

(04-21-2016, 02:21 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Good.  I wouldn't mind a corner in the 1st in the least bit.  The fact that the Squealers are hounding for a CB in 1 just makes it that much juicier.

Never thought about that but it would be perfect to make every indication that we're going to draft Apple, just so they waste picks/players on a trade to move ahead of us 

Doesn't seem like our MO to be able to be that sneaky, but it would be great!

(04-21-2016, 02:13 AM)phil413 Wrote: I think a lot of us are beating a dead horse with this, but it makes roster logic ONLY if all players are similar at the pick for a few reasons:

1.  The CB position still has more question marks and potential than the substance that we'd like to have.  Jones was a great band aid, but he's a short term fix that ideally should have a few less snaps given his age and need in returning punts.  Dre is a descent young corner without a long term deal, but he looks more like the type you let someone overpay than someone you throw guaranteed money at to keep them off the market.  Dennard looks solid but is coming off the injury, and Shaw should have his own thread if he doesn't already.  Do they see him as a situational type on bigger targets like they used Hall, or do they trust him to backup the outside and start if needed?  They could stand to take a corner, how high though?  

2.  Even if you don't put CB as the TOP need, the talent pool is deep at other needs like the WR and DL so maybe they get CB out of the way first.  DT is very deep and in general they haven't been drafting DT's in the 1st in recent years.  If you look at any random 7 round mock, you likely get to say the late 4th round and say "I can't believe (insert DT name) is still here".  Depending on what they think of a guy like Braxton, maybe he adds to the say 5 or 6 WR's worth thinking about in the 2nd.  

3.  CB is one of those money positions they tend to draft high.  In the same respect, you may like a certain center or safety high, but they tend to draft them lower.  They draft the corners high because they don't want to be paying a premium on the market and have to throw a rookie in there to fill a need.  Taking a year to groom a 1st round corner gives stability long term to that position.  


DISCLAIMER: I absolutely hate the flawed strategy I hear fans (typically Browns ones) us in calling the round first.  Like "we need to take a OT 1st and then RB in the 2nd and CB in the 3rd.  Those are our needs."  There is a difference between projecting depth at a position and just ranking your needs and taking the best of that position at that pick.  Maybe you fill your need but pass on 20 better prospects at other position.  

Bottom line is that if you think Billings is a true beast you take him no matter how deep the DT position is.  If you see Lee as a star in the making, you take him no matter if you have Burfict at WLB and have done well with late round gems rather than using high picks.  You even take Elliott even if he is at one of your deepest positions if you see him as a rare value at RB.  A stud prospect will trump trying to overthink the draft.  Every time I look at mocks and simulators I think a lot of us see similarities in where the depth is, but it isn't a rule just a forecast.  If Apple or Jackson are "their guy" then they take them.  I'm still debating the Jackson pick.  I love having a player that plays solid man coverage, but I still think they'll have reservations about his support via the run.  Yes we should be prepared to not be shocked by them selecting a corner, but with as many 1st round WR targets that they've looked at it's VERY open.

I believe that this is an intricate part of putting together the best that the team can afford. Especially if a first round pick is used, which gives the team 5 years total in that player, with a sub-market investment. Gives us more money for depth where needed. An eye toward the future with an eye on the present is an artform imho.

How many first round CB's do we need?  There are other CBs in the draft after the first rounders are gone.  Why can't we take one of them?  I'm just tired of taking CB's or OTs in the first round every stinking year.  I'll be pretty disappointed if we go CB this year, unless its Jalen Ramsey......and I don't see him falling to our pick.   

I think (more like hoping) that the team has enough faith in Dennard and Shaw to put off drafting a corner till the later rounds. I still think Dennard is something special hiding up our sleeves and Shaw looked great last year. If we do draft a corner, he won't touch the field.

(04-21-2016, 10:53 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: How many first round CB's do we need?  There are other CBs in the draft after the first rounders are gone.  Why can't we take one of them?  I'm just tired of taking CB's or OTs in the first round every stinking year.  I'll be pretty disappointed if we go CB this year, unless its Jalen Ramsey......and I don't see him falling to our pick.   

(04-21-2016, 11:08 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think (more like hoping) that the team has enough faith in Dennard and Shaw to put off drafting a corner till the later rounds. I still think Dennard is something special hiding up our sleeves and Shaw looked great last year. If we do draft a corner, he won't touch the field.

I agree with you guys.  We really need another first round CB?  Get the guys we have on the field, and light a fire under their asses.  Take a CB in a later round if we need to.