Many parents lie to their children routinely. There are the well known lies like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and the less well known lies which my vary from household to household (such as mommy was in her room practicing screaming louder than the vacuum cleaner in case she ever needs to call for help while cleaning).

Now the parenthetical example above is sort of understandable, but we could argue that mommy would be better served by telling the child it was none of his concern why she was yelling and leave it at that rather than lying about the screams emanating from her chamber. And the other examples are lies certainly more widely told, but are they told to the benefit or detriment of our children and our culture?

I have heard many adults talk about how angry they were when they realized as children their parents had been telling (with zeal) such whoppers for a long time. Suddenly the people they were surest they could trust the most were no longer trustworthy. And, I have heard many parents fume over their older children (who know damn good and well they are deliberately choosing to lie to the parent(s)) blatantly lying to them. But why should this surprise mom and pop? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right? If as a parent you have modeled lying as something to not only be done but to be done with zeal and not an iota of shame, how can you be shocked and angered when your children lie to you with zeal and not an iota of shame?

Will one or more (or most) here make the case that somehow this lying to children is a benefit to society or will one or more (or most) condemn the lies and call for a paradigm shift?

(04-25-2016, 11:34 AM)xxlt Wrote: Many parents lie to their children routinely. There are the well known lies like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and the less well known lies which my vary from household to household (such as mommy was in her room practicing screaming louder than the vacuum cleaner in case she ever needs to call for help while cleaning).

Now the parenthetical example above is sort of understandable, but we could argue that mommy would be better served by telling the child it was none of his concern why she was yelling and leave it at that rather than lying about the screams emanating from her chamber. And the other examples are lies certainly more widely told, but are they told to the benefit or detriment of our children and our culture?

I have heard many adults talk about how angry they were when they realized as children their parents had been telling (with zeal) such whoppers for a long time. Suddenly the people they were surest they could trust the most were no longer trustworthy. And, I have heard many parents fume over their older children (who know damn good and well they are deliberately choosing to lie to the parent(s)) blatantly lying to them. But why should this surprise mom and pop? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right? If as a parent you have modeled lying as something to not only be done but to be done with zeal and not an iota of shame, how can you be shocked and angered when your children lie to you with zeal and not an iota of shame?

Will one or more (or most) here make the case that somehow this lying to children is a benefit to society or will one or more (or most) condemn the lies and call for a paradigm shift?

You're right......
I'll go tell my 4 year old that Mommy and Daddy were NOT wrestling.
Wish me luck !

(04-25-2016, 11:45 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: You're right......
I'll go tell my 4 year old that Mommy and Daddy were NOT wrestling.
Wish me luck !

I recall a Seinfeld episode with an ugly baby where they described it as one of the many "must lie" situations in life. And maybe mom and dad wrestling is a must lie situation too. And, like "no that dress doesn't make you look fat," perhaps there is no harm in such lies. (Although those forced to look at the woman in the dress four sizes to small may say there is great harm.)

But what about the ones that are not must lie situations? Are we so cavalier with truth that we lie indiscriminately and without cause and with zeal to our children and see no harm in it? If the value we place on truth is so low that this is how we operate it would explain a great deal about our culture (Nixon, Reagan, two Bushes, Bill Clinton, and Fox News) but I would like us to be more honest - no pun intended - about our complete lack of respect for honesty if this is culturally who we are.

A very odd post.

Who determines what a "must lie situation" is? Isn't that kind of relevant to the parents?

As for "lying" to kids, surely I don't see any harm in telling my kids about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. In retrospect, I would have been severely disappointed if my parents told me the truth about this and I couldn't get to experience it.

I have no issue lying to protect my kids from CERTAIN things.

Each parent has to make their own choices, call it lying if you will. IMO you can either lie to your child or rob them. You rob them of many of the joys of being a child. "Dang it hurt pulling that loose tooth out, but if I put it under my pillow the tooth fairy will bring me a dollar." ect...

The parent will decide when the time to explain the realities of the world, but let them get out of diapers first.

(04-25-2016, 11:34 AM)xxlt Wrote: Many parents lie to their children routinely. There are the well known lies like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and the less well known lies which my vary from household to household (such as mommy was in her room practicing screaming louder than the vacuum cleaner in case she ever needs to call for help while cleaning).

Now the parenthetical example above is sort of understandable, but we could argue that mommy would be better served by telling the child it was none of his concern why she was yelling and leave it at that rather than lying about the screams emanating from her chamber. And the other examples are lies certainly more widely told, but are they told to the benefit or detriment of our children and our culture?

I have heard many adults talk about how angry they were when they realized as children their parents had been telling (with zeal) such whoppers for a long time. Suddenly the people they were surest they could trust the most were no longer trustworthy. And, I have heard many parents fume over their older children (who know damn good and well they are deliberately choosing to lie to the parent(s)) blatantly lying to them. But why should this surprise mom and pop? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right? If as a parent you have modeled lying as something to not only be done but to be done with zeal and not an iota of shame, how can you be shocked and angered when your children lie to you with zeal and not an iota of shame?

Will one or more (or most) here make the case that somehow this lying to children is a benefit to society or will one or more (or most) condemn the lies and call for a paradigm shift?

You are making the assumption that children are on the same level as parents.    They are not ....   There are some things that children do not need to know about until they are old enough to handle it mentally and emotionally.   

You bring up modeling lying behavior.... It's never permissbale to lie to an adult especially your parents.     
There is adult level and kid level.... Each need to stay in their lane.   

Telling your kids that mommy and daddy wrestle isn't a lie.    It's just all they need to know.   That's a parent staying in their lane and not burdening their child with adult things. 

I hope you will not be one of those parents who tells other people's kids "the truth" about everything because you think they deserve to know.

(04-25-2016, 12:57 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: A very odd post.

Who determines what a "must lie situation" is? Isn't that kind of relevant to the parents?

As for "lying" to kids, surely I don't see any harm in telling my kids about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. In retrospect, I would have been severely disappointed if my parents told me the truth about this and I couldn't get to experience it.

I have no issue lying to protect my kids from CERTAIN things.

I have a friend who is always saying he won't lie to his kids about Santa or the Easter Bunny because it's just wrong to lie to your kids and he doesn't want his kids to distrust him. Plus Christmas is just a holiday that has been taken over by evil businesses wanting your money. I always end up feeling sorry for his future kids after hearing this it sounds like he wants them to be grown up before they even experience being a kid. I try to explain to him that all you're doing it robbing your kids of an experience because of your personal opinion. Kids don't give a flying crap about your protest they just want to have a good Christmas.

Lying to kids about Santa Clause is fine.

Lying about why the hair brush handle smells like ass is fine if the kids are too small to understand adult sexual relations.

But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age? What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

(04-25-2016, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lying to kids about Santa Clause is fine.  

Lying about why the hair brush handle smells like ass is fine if the kids are too small to understand adult sexual relations.

But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age?  What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

you lie your tail off.   In the hopes that they make better decisions than the obvious idiotic ones you made.   Just because you did something dumb doesn't mean your kid should fall victim to the same.  

(04-25-2016, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lying to kids about Santa Clause is fine.  

Lying about why the hair brush handle smells like ass is fine if the kids are too small to understand adult sexual relations.

But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age?  What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

Im fine with either decision a parent makes. Lying or not lying. 

(04-25-2016, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age?  What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

I have told  both my boys this. Last semester of my Senior year I had more days absent than I did present. We'd smoke on the way to school and before we got there Kings Island seemed like a much better idea. 

(04-25-2016, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lying to kids about Santa Clause is fine.  

Lying about why the hair brush handle smells like ass is fine if the kids are too small to understand adult sexual relations.

But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age?  What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

Depends on the age. Mostly, I tell the truth.

But, I never skipped classes to get high. I did drink in class, but I've never been asked that one. I don't go into every detail (especially when it comes to promiscuity in high school), but it's important to be honest about the dumb decisions you've made. If you don't your kid is going to realize he can't talk to you about it.

Think about it: you hook up with a girl and your junk smells like bok choy. Do you talk to your parent (who lied and said they never had sex until marriage) or do you talk to your buddy (who lied about ever hooking up with a chick and only knows what he knows from porn and the internet)? I was lucky, my parents were fairly honest with me about the things they had and hadn't done in their life. So when I had a problem, if it was something they'd experienced, I talked to them about it. If they hadn't, I didn't always.

But, like I said, that depends on the age. If it's something I don't think they're ready to talk about, I tell them to ask me when they're older.

(04-25-2016, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have told  both my boys this. Last semester of my Senior year I had more days absent than I did present. We'd smoke on the way to school and before we got there Kings Island seemed like a much better idea. 

I guess that would work for parents who are total loser and their kids don't want to turn out like them.

(04-25-2016, 04:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: you lie your tail off.   In the hopes that they make better decisions than the obvious idiotic ones you made.   Just because you did something dumb doesn't mean your kid should fall victim to the same.  

Then later they ask their Uncle Ted about you when you were a teenager, and Uncle Ted busts a gut telling them how high you were most of your teenage years and all your credibility with them goes right about the window.

If they're old enough to ask about getting high and cutting class, they're old enough to hear the truth.  Use it as a teaching moment instead of trying to cover your ass.  Lies always come back to bite you, so fess up and try to make a negative a positive.  My .02.

(04-25-2016, 03:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lying to kids about Santa Clause is fine.  

Lying about why the hair brush handle smells like ass is fine if the kids are too small to understand adult sexual relations.

But what about when you tell your kids not to do something you did at their age?  What do you do if your son asks you if you ever skipped classes to get high?

  Of all of the sexual examples you could have come up with, you go for the hairbrush up the bunghole? 

(04-25-2016, 04:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: you lie your tail off.   In the hopes that they make better decisions than the obvious idiotic ones you made.   Just because you did something dumb doesn't mean your kid should fall victim to the same.  

I agree with this 100%. And if Uncle Ted rats you out, you tell your kid that Uncle Ted is full of crap. Then you kick the sh't out of Uncle Ted the next time you see him. 

Kind of related....

Do you monitor your kids text/social media accounts and do you tell them?

(04-25-2016, 08:26 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: I agree with this 100%. And if Uncle Ted rats you out, you tell your kid that Uncle Ted is full of crap. Then you kick the sh't out of Uncle Ted the next time you see him. 

Exactly....  You and I park our cars in the same garage on this subject.  

(04-25-2016, 08:29 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Kind of related....

Do you monitor your kids text/social media accounts and do you tell them?

Mine aren't old enough to have social media but when they do they will be monitored.   

(04-25-2016, 09:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Mine aren't old enough to have social media but when they do they will be monitored.   

I hope the belief that you're monitoring them helps you sleep at night, because they'll be using other avenues you're not even aware exist.  FB is already a smokescreen for most youngins.