(04-27-2016, 03:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: They got so much money because teams don't realize that they were successful because of AJ getting all the attention on the other side.  They were also products of the system.  

Decent receivers are a dime a dozen, and that's what we need.  Even if we took a receiver early, it's still Marvin and still the AFCN, which is a power division, so we're not going to turn into a high-octane offense.  

If anything, we'd take a possession receiver, which the best one is Michael Thomas, and he can even offer more than that.

Well the Bengals obviously don't agree...

(04-27-2016, 01:46 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Doctson or Treadwell, it's got to be a day 1 starter on a win now team. And the only way we will get there is if Andy has quality people around him.  I don't think Andy is capable of Making players around him better like Brady, manning, Bree's.

That isn't an insult by any means, but Andy can be a top 5-6 qb win the right people Around him.   Without that same personal around him he is borderline average.

Very similar to a Russell Wilson or Carson Palmer.  You may even be able to lump flacco and Matt Ryan into that conversation.

Very few guys are manning or brady


http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/4/27/11517862/nfl-trade-rumors-bengals-trying-to-move-up-in-nfl-draft-for-josh

Dalton has made everyone around him look a lot better than what they actually are. I don't know what you're on about. There's a reason why every single OC he's had is now a HC, and players are getting big contracts. Other than Jones and Sanu what offensive skilled player did Dalton have that's a starter on a different team?

(04-27-2016, 01:57 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Or they helped make him a lot of money?

I am not bashing dalton, I even said that above, but he needs a glutiny of good talent to play at his highest level.  That's all.

Bree's will throw for 5,000 yards regardless, Brady will continue to be elite, manning (pre last 18 months) could make stokely, welker, Dallas Clark, (guy from OSU) double digit td machines.

Unfortunately dalton isn't one of those once in a generation qb.  But he can be an elite qb with the right talent.  


It's not a hard concept

Dalton hasn't had a bunch of talent around him his whole career. I think it's hilarious that people try to act like he has. He had poor weapons in 2011 and 2012 he had above average weapons in 2013, he had horrible weapons in 2014 and he had really good weapons in 2015. It's not like he's been playing with all pros around him.

(04-27-2016, 05:28 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton hasn't had a bunch of talent around him his whole career. I think it's hilarious that people try to act like he has. He had poor weapons in 2011 and 2012 he had above average weapons in 2013, he had horrible weapons in 2014 and he had really good weapons in 2015. It's not like he's been playing with all pros around him.

Pretty correct. In 2011 and 2012 all he had essentially was Green. 2013 he had two receivers (Marvin Jones and AJ) but still no TE. 2014 was the year our offensive skill players were basically all got hurt. Last year was the first year we actually had our skill players on the field.

Why do so many of us want Ryan Kelly? Because another constant for basically the last decade has been bad play from Center and the Bengals constantly trying to get their Center in the later rounds - and constantly being disappointed. We have a blue chip Center potentially being there when we pick; we would be foolish not to take him.

(04-27-2016, 05:28 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton hasn't had a bunch of talent around him his whole career. I think it's hilarious that people try to act like he has. He had poor weapons in 2011 and 2012 he had above average weapons in 2013, he had horrible weapons in 2014 and he had really good weapons in 2015. It's not like he's been playing with all pros around him.

If you look at his career stats you are just proving my point

2011 212 ypg for 80 rating
2012 229 ypg for 87 rating
2013 268 ypg for 89 rating
2014 212 ypg for 83 rating
2015 250 ypg for 106 rating

When dalton has good weapons around him, he produces. When he doesn't he is average. I have never once said he isn't good.. But his play is a reflection of the players around him

For comparison sake Drew Bree's in the same timeframe has never had lower than a 96 rating and under 309 yards per game. Without jimmy graham (cooks,sneed, Colston top 3 targets) this last year he averaged 324 yards per game. His second highest ever. If not for missing a game he would have had another 5,000 yard season

This is the reason I would imagine we should be locked in on a WR

(04-27-2016, 05:23 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton has made everyone around him look a lot better than what they actually are. I don't know what you're on about. There's a reason why every single OC he's had is now a HC, and players are getting big contracts. Other than Jones and Sanu what offensive skilled player did Dalton have that's a starter on a different team?

All I am saying is if you look at Andy dalton a career as a whole, he is significantly better when he has a good group of players around him. That's all

And that's to be expected.

This does confirm that Smith is definitely not our 1st round pick. Thank God.

(04-27-2016, 05:52 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: If you look at his career stats you are just proving my point

2011 212 ypg for 80 rating
2012 229 ypg for 87 rating
2013 268 ypg for 89 rating
2014 212 ypg for 83 rating
2015 250 ypg for 106 rating

When dalton has good weapons around him, he produces.  When he doesn't he is average.  I have never once said he isn't good.. But his play is a reflection of the players around him

For comparison sake Drew Bree's in the same timeframe has never had lower than a 96 rating and under 309 yards per game.  Without jimmy graham (cooks,sneed, Colston top 3 targets) this last year he averaged 324 yards per game. His second highest ever.  If not for missing a game he would have had another 5,000 yard season

This is the reason I would imagine we should be locked in on a WR

Meh, AD IS 15th on the all time career passer rating list and top 10 among active players. He's done just fine regardless of the talent around him, all while continually having a lack of continuity at the offensive coordinator position. He is severely undervalued when it comes to getting credit for the success of this offense/team, and it's a shame.

(04-27-2016, 05:54 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: All I am saying is if you look at Andy dalton a career as a whole, he is significantly better when he has a good group of players around him. That's all

That's literally every QB in the league from the worst to the best QB. The thing is the best QBs in the league get credit for it even if they do have a great supporting staff around them. Just like Tom Brady.

(04-27-2016, 05:19 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Well the Bengals obviously don't agree...

With which part?

(04-27-2016, 04:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Nelson's at the top of the depth chart right now, but I don't know how official that is because it sounded like they were big on Shawn Williams, which makes me think that they wouldn't go safety early.

Reggie Nelson is gone.

That gives us Iloka, Williams, and Smith.

Just think that Joseph could be a dark horse.

(04-27-2016, 07:34 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Reggie Nelson is gone.

That gives us Iloka, Williams, and Smith.

Just think that Joseph could be a dark horse.

Brads been too busy hanging out on street corners with domata Peko to realize Nelson is gone?

I think it's Coleman,they met with the guy several times,what's up with the route tree stuff,we are not a complicated offense,we run slants screens anad gos

Man, Fuller and Coleman scare me. The drops, small(er than average for WR) hands, and inconsistency scares me.

But of the two, Coleman has the higher ceiling. Hawkins 2.0

(04-27-2016, 09:09 PM)jeremydc Wrote: Man, Fuller and Coleman scare me. The drops, small(er than average for WR) hands, and inconsistency scares me.

But of the two, Coleman has the higher ceiling. Hawkins 2.0

I think he'd definitely be better then hawkins,he's bigger and can play the outside,I'd say Steve Smith Jr.you watch Smith highlights you see the same speed,and cutting ability.Smith I think is built a little bigger.

(04-27-2016, 09:17 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I think he'd definitely be better then hawkins,he's bigger and can play the outside,I'd say Steve Smith Jr.you watch Smith highlights you see the same speed,and cutting ability.Smith I think is built a little bigger.

Agreed. I should have clarified. In our system (if not modified), he'll be a gadget type of player (WR3, quick slants, screens, etc) similar to Hawkins.

If the Bengals can actually draw up/implement plays correlating with his strengths, no doubt Smith 2.0

To OP: when it comes time to pick at 24, the Bengals will have someone circled based on who was picked previously. That's "our player." He's saying they don't like to trade around when they have someone lined up to pick, not necessarily a particular name.

They'd like to stay put. Trading around leaves them in the unknown.