(04-27-2016, 06:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: To support this opinion you cited two issues which don't have anything to do with the union, officiating and injury concerns.


The NFL denied a link between concussions and sequelae long before any lawsuits.


Why did neurologist adopt it?


Christ, everything you wrote has been that you mind the protocol and now you don't mind the protocol?  LMAO  You're ability to contradict yourself is legendary.  You're consistently inconsistent.  


The player can opt out of the concussion protocol.  If they don't like the protocol they can quit at any time.  Playing football is voluntary.  Remember?

The union contract is the problem.   Less contact with coaches and the practice field leads to more injuries.   


As for the rest of this where you take part of a thought and run with it .....   

So why are you so against players making a decision for themselves?   Why do you feel they should be lorded over by a policy that's only in place to stop a lawsuit?    The concussion rules will only force more defenders going low.   Even Burfict admits he will have to go low now.   Less concussions but more knees.  Great job lol 

I will say I don't care if they get a concussion or not. That's not my concern nor the leagues. It's between the player and his employer.... The team. And the player should be given the choice to override this decision.

(04-27-2016, 06:37 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The union contract is the problem.

It isn't a "union" contract.  It is a collective bargaining agreement.  The owner's and the player's union agreed to the contract.

Quote:Less contact with coaches and the practice field leads to more injuries.   

Prove it.  The two sources you cited dispute your opinion, including the NFL itself.

Quote:As for the rest of this where you take part of a thought and run with it .....   

So why are you so against players making a decision for themselves?   Why do you feel they should be lorded over by a policy that's only in place to stop a lawsuit?    The concussion rules will only force more defenders going low.   Even Burfict admits he will have to go low now.   Less concussions but more knees.  Great job lol 

The concussion protocol is in place for concussed soccer players in elementary school because it is the standard medical treatment for return to play in concussed players.  It was developed by neurologists for the patient's benefit, not the NFL.  The NFL adopted what the doctors developed.  I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.  

The concussion protocol is a stipulation of employment.  Like some employers requiring steel toed boots or random drug screens.  If the player wants to opt out of the concussion protocol he can quit any time and go work some place else because, like you wrote, playing football is voluntary.

(04-27-2016, 06:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I will say I don't care if they get a concussion or not.    That's not my concern nor the leagues.    It's between the player and his employer.... The team.    And the player should be given the choice to override this decision.

The player has the choice to override the decision.  They can quit their job which immediately removes them from the concussion protocol.  They are, in effect, "moving someplace else" which is your answer for everything.

(04-27-2016, 07:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It isn't a "union" contract.  It is a collective bargaining agreement.  The owner's and the player's union agreed to the contract.




Prove it.  The two sources you cited dispute your opinion, including the NFL itself.




The concussion protocol is in place for concussed soccer players in elementary school because it is the standard medical treatment for return to play in concussed players.  It was developed by neurologists for the patient's benefit, not the NFL.  The NFL adopted what the doctors developed.  I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.  

The concussion protocol is a stipulation of employment.  Like some employers requiring steel toed boots or random drug screens.  If the player wants to opt out of the concussion protocol he can quit any time and go work some place else because, like you wrote, playing football is voluntary.

1. Yes I am sure the owners were in favour of less practice lol. Do you enjoy just arguing for the sake of an argument?   I guess you will tell me the sky isn't blue and water isn't wet.   

2. http://www.nata.org/blog/nata-admin/has-nfls-adapted-training-schedule-led-more-player-injuries
They even say the injury rate rose lol 

3. Drug screens alone don't remove the ability to work. And having an equipment mandate isn't quite the same as someone making a decision based off zero hard facts.   It's all a judgement call. That's a problem. 

(04-27-2016, 07:51 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The player has the choice to override the decision.  They can quit their job which immediately removes them from the concussion protocol.  They are, in effect, "moving someplace else" which is your answer for everything.

Or blantantly start going low on other players injuring knees instead.   Because you know players would rather their knees get torn up instead of their bell rung.   

And still the best part is this is being decided by something that has never had a long term study on football players.  How many guys are losing the ability to earn a living over either fear of supposed affects later or the inability to play and then losing their job because of an unproven protocol based on nothing football related.  

Let them lose their minds.   It's their head.   Why do you care so much about their decisions?   I would rather have a league of head hunters than a league with guys going low to avoid a penalty or some random dude holding them out for weeks

(04-27-2016, 08:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Yes I am sure the owners were in favour of less practice lol. Do you enjoy just arguing for the sake of an argument?   I guess you will tell me the sky isn't blue and water isn't wet.   

LMAO  They agreed so the have no right to complain.  Right?

You don't even have a consistent opinion on a single topic in a single thread?  You called the concussion protocol a joke, a knee jerk reaction, and an overreach; then claimed you have no problem with it.  If you believe it is a joke, a knee jerk reaction, and an overreach, claiming you have no problem with it is obviously a lie.  If you honestly don't have a problem with it then claiming it is a joke, a knee jerk reaction, or an overreach is also a lie.  Either way, you're a liar who has argued both sides of the issue in the same thread.  Why?  Because you're only interested in arguing.

Quote:2. http://www.nata.org/blog/nata-admin/has-nfls-adapted-training-schedule-led-more-player-injuries
They even say the injury rate rose lol 

Holy shit.  "lol" indeed.  You didn't read that article, either.  If you did, you obviously didn't understand it.  Your Belichick article was dated December 2013 and the NFL spokesperson denied injuries were on the rise.  This article is dated January 2015 and stated not all the injury data was in for the season.  Which season?  2014.  So what is the difference in the data between the two articles?  One season of incomplete data.  If you bothered to read the full article, which you didn't, you would know the author attributed the rash of torn Achilles and patella tendons to HGH abuse.
 

Quote:3. Drug screens alone don't remove the ability to work.

I'm pretty sure Josh Gordon would disagree.  NFL players can refuse to take a drug test which is the same as a failed test.  Failed tests get you suspended, even indefinitely suspended, and eventually out of the NFL.

Quote:And having an equipment mandate isn't quite the same as someone making a decision based off zero hard facts.

Neuropsychological testing, physical exam findings, and concussion questionnaires aren't the same as zero hard facts, but you wouldn't know.

Quote:It's all a judgement call. That's a problem. 

Pretty much everything in medicine is a judgment call.  Kinda like Kawasaki disease, it's a 100% judgment call, no test can confirm or deny the diagnosis, but without treatment the patient will die.  Again, you wouldn't know anything about it.  Or the decision to repair Carson Palmer's elbow surgically versus conservative treatment was a judgment call.  

(04-27-2016, 08:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Or blantantly start going low on other players injuring knees instead.   Because you know players would rather their knees get torn up instead of their bell rung.   

And still the best part is this is being decided by something that has never had a long term study on football players.  How many guys are losing the ability to earn a living over either fear of supposed affects later or the inability to play and then losing their job because of an unproven protocol based on nothing football related.  

Let them lose their minds.   It's their head.   Why do you care so much about their decisions?   I would rather have a league of head hunters than a league with guys going low to avoid a penalty or some random dude holding them out for weeks

You've already stated you don't care if the players get concussions so don't pretend like you give a shit about their knees, either.  The "random dude" holding them out for weeks is an independent neurologist.  

Since you asked, answer your own questions; how many players of lost their jobs over the fear of supposed affects later?  How many have lost their job because of an unproven protocol? Let's see . . . 0 + 0 (um, carry the 0) = 0.  

Why are you pissing and moaning about an employer requiring medical clearance before an injured employee can resume work?  It happens everyday outside of the NFL.

Oh not this crap again. Look, if being open and honest about concussions and their long-term effects wasn't a big deal the NFL wouldn't have gone so far out of its way to hide the connection. End o' story. Case closed. Let's just move on now that players are actually given the information they deserve to make an informed decision.

The NFL lied and did it's employees dirty and now they're paying for it. Ye gods, that sounds....fair! Yuck, I hate fairness. I want to live in a world where liars with X amount of dollars can get away with things that can ruin people's lives! YAY! Ok, end rant.

What's this crap about Brady's deflated balls? Oh man he's gonna be SO MAD he's gonna beat them Browns!!!!!!

(04-28-2016, 12:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Oh not this crap again. Look, if being open and honest about concussions and their long-term effects wasn't a big deal the NFL wouldn't have gone so far out of its way to hide the connection. End o' story. Case closed. Let's just move on now that players are actually given the information they deserve to make an informed decision.

The NFL lied and did it's employees dirty and now they're paying for it. Ye gods, that sounds....fair! Yuck, I hate fairness. I want to live in a world where liars with X amount of dollars can get away with things that can ruin people's lives! YAY! Ok, end rant.

What's this crap about Brady's deflated balls? Oh man he's gonna be SO MAD he's gonna beat them Browns!!!!!!

Well, this is the same guy who claimed Michelle Obama has a BMI of 25 which makes her obese for her height. Then asks me if I just like to argue. LMAO

(04-28-2016, 03:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Well, this is the same guy who claimed Michelle Obama has a BMI of 25 which makes her obese for her height. Then asks me if I just like to argue. LMAO

She is fat. But that has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.  

(04-28-2016, 12:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You've already stated you don't care if the players get concussions so don't pretend like you give a shit about their knees, either.  The "random dude" holding them out for weeks is an independent neurologist.  

Since you asked, answer your own questions; how many players of lost their jobs over the fear of supposed affects later?  How many have lost their job because of an unproven protocol? Let's see . . . 0 + 0 (um, carry the 0) = 0.  

Why are you pissing and moaning about an employer requiring medical clearance before an injured employee can resume work?  It happens everyday outside of the NFL.

I see these guys as independent contractors who are running their own little corporations.   It's no the nfl's place to limit these guys.   All I'm saying is that players should be able to override the concussion protocol.  After all it's their life and their body.   

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/04/26/colts-struggling-offensive-line-has-company/83558326/

Yet more coaches taking about how the lack of offseason practice is affecting the game.

(04-28-2016, 04:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: She is fat. But that has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.  

If she were obese for her height her BMI would be 30 or above, not 25.  A 5th grader can understand.

(04-28-2016, 04:13 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I see these guys as independent contractors who are running their own little corporations.   It's no the nfl's place to limit these guys.   All I'm saying is that players should be able to override the concussion protocol.  After all it's their life and their body.   

Problem is they aren't independent contractors.  They are employees.  They have an employment contract with their employer.  Everyday employers require their employees to get medical clearance to return to their job after an injury.

(04-28-2016, 06:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/04/26/colts-struggling-offensive-line-has-company/83558326/

Yet more coaches taking about how the lack of offseason practice is affecting the game.

I suggest you read your references before posting the first link that pops up from a Google search.  If you did you might have noticed . . .

Quote:They’re not getting any better because they don’t ever get to practice football.  -Bruce Arians

Nothing but hyperbole.

Quote:And you can definitely make the case that the 'D' line is ahead of the 'O' line if you look across the league. -Mike McCarthy

How are the defensive lineman getting better than the offensive lineman if they never get to practice football?

Quote:Luck missed nine games last season, partly attributed to the lack of protection.

Luck missed nine games las season, partly attributed to holding onto the ball too long instead of throwing it away.

Quote:“When you’re watching some of these (college) offenses where the offensive lineman never gets in a three-point stance, that’s tough to really evaluate that player to our game,” Colts General Manager Ryan Grigson said. “… People don’t like to say it, but there is some guessing going on in this thing, some hypothetical evaluation and imagination.”

Part of the problem is the spread offense in college and poor NFL scouting.

Quote:One criticism of Thornton and Holmes, specifically, has been the seeming lack of improvement over the past three seasons. The hope is that new offensive line coach Joe Philbin, one of the NFL’s most respected line coaches, can fast-track the group of linemen and any others the Colts might select in this draft.

Then there is poor coaching, so they went out and hired a better coach.

Quote:“The style of offense that many of these players have played in college is different than what we’re going to ask them to do,” Cowboys coach Jason Garrett said. “When you’re spread out and you’re playing east and west and you’re not seeing a lot of fronts, not having to drop back and pass protect as much as we ask guys to do, it makes their development that much more challenging.”

Again, different style of play in college combined with poor scouting projections , and coaches asking them to play a different scheme.

Quote:Maybe it means taking more shots at offensive linemen (the Colts have drafted precious few in the early rounds). 

The Colt's GM admitted his draft evaluations include "guessing" and "imagination" which is only exacerbated by drafting guys which aren't that talented compared to their peers.

Quote:The Colts are trying to find a workable line combination without investing precious salary cap resources in it and with a slate of just six selections in this week’s draft.

Yeah, that "union" contract is to blame.  

The NFL spent millions on the Wells report.

A 7th grade science project debunked it for a lot less.

Haha so an expert such as Bruce Arians speaks on what lack of practice does to the product on the field and we are supposed to discount NFL Head Coach Bruce Arians and believe the ramblings of Message Board Breech.....

Defensive Line isn't as group dependent as offensive line. For OL you need a full group, pads, contact, and full speed. That's why The quality of offensive line play across the league overall is down. Which explains why people complain about the bengals line even though they are one of the best. The league is just down and it's due to these restrictions on practice.

Thanks Union

(05-01-2016, 10:51 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The NFL spent millions on the Wells report.

A 7th grade science project debunked it for a lot less.

And statisticians proved they balls have been delfated since they were given control of their own balls in 2007.

Numbers don't lie.

(05-01-2016, 01:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Thanks Union

The owners agreed to the same thing the union did.

So blame them both.