(05-05-2016, 07:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  I never claimed to be smarter than Paul Alexander or all the O line coaches, that's just you making up BS. 

Oh, really?  because from everything I have been reading you have been claiming that paul was stupid to let Mathis go after the '10 season because it should have been clear that he was a great player.  But if you are going to make that argfument then you are going to have to say that every other O-liner coach in the leaguer was also stupid because Mathis could mnot get anything more than a league minimum contract.

(05-05-2016, 07:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: "Spin it anyway you want," but only one GM was stupid enough to sign Livings (Jerry Jones) and Alexander's pet project was out of the league a year after being out from under Alexander's protective wing while Mathis is still playing and a former two time Pro Bowler and All Pro.

Livings was injured his firat year in dallas.  he played injured and had surgery right after the season.  he did not fully recover and had another "procedure" on his knee before training camp.  The Cowboys worked out an injury settlement.  He was out of thre league due to injury.

(05-05-2016, 07:58 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:   And according to your friends at PFF, Mathis only got 114 snaps in 2010 and he damn sure didn't look worse than Livings.

Every NFL team was able to see those 114 snaps and Mathis looked so bad he could not get more than a league minimum contract.  This is you again claiming that you are smarter than every other GM and O-line coach in the league.  Mathis looked bad.  That is why he was playing behind Livings instead of winning starting time like he did before he was hurt in '09.

Seriously, just listen to what you are trying to argue.  .  .  "Mathis's play did not change from '09 to '10.  Instead Paul Alexander just forgot who Mathis was during the off season and could not remember that he was starting Mathis the year before."

(05-05-2016, 08:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh, really?  because from everything I have been reading you have been claiming that paul was stupid to let Mathis go after the '10 season because it should have been clear that he was a great player.  But if you are going to make that argfument then you are going to have to say that every other O-liner coach in the leaguer was also stupid because Mathis could mnot get anything more than a league minimum contract.



Livings was injured his firat year in dallas.  he played injured and had surgery right after the season.  he did not fully recover and had another "procedure" on his knee before training camp.  The Cowboys worked out an injury settlement.  He was out of thre league due to injury.


Every NFL team was able to see those 114 snaps and Mathis looked so bad he could not get more than a league minimum contract.  This is you again claiming that you are smarter than every other GM and O-line coach in the league.  Mathis looked bad.  That is why he was playing behind Livings instead of winning starting time like he did before he was hurt in '09.

Seriously, just listen to what you are trying to argue.  .  .  "Mathis's play did not change from '09 to '10.  Instead Paul Alexander just forgot who Mathis was during the off season and could not remember that he was starting Mathis the year before."

(05-05-2016, 10:39 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: EXACTLY.....when the player tanks, the PA spin doctors blame the player, when a player does well, it's because PA is such a good coach.  It's really quite comical.

so if a player sucks and fails its PAs fault? that makes total sense. no wait it doesnt.

(05-06-2016, 09:59 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so if a player sucks and fails its PAs fault? that makes total sense.  no wait it doesnt.

.....except that's not what I said.....makes about as much sense as saying he "coached up" a first or second rounder.    

The issue here is, this was his hand picked player.....and he still has the same issues he came into the league with....or do you disagree?

(05-05-2016, 05:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bodine not being able to dominate that the point of attack, was the reasoning behind my post suggesting that he spend more time practicing the truck push, than the bench press.

You'd think an all world, Canton bound O line coach would figure that out.......

(05-05-2016, 07:56 PM)Derrick Wrote: I doubt the F.O. and Marvy will ever concede that they messed up.

......but they were only going on what their o-line coach suggested.

(05-06-2016, 10:26 AM)Wyche Wrote:  

The issue here is, this was his hand picked player.....and he still has the same issues he came into the league with....or do you disagree?

Don't know what your point id here.

Has there ever in the history of NFL or college football been a position coach anywhere who could "fix" every player?

Funny that the only way you can criticize PA is to set a standard that no other person on earth has ever met.

(05-05-2016, 08:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh, really?  because from everything I have been reading you have been claiming that paul was stupid to let Mathis go after the '10 season because it should have been clear that he was a great player.  But if you are going to make that argfument then you are going to have to say that every other O-liner coach in the leaguer was also stupid because Mathis could mnot get anything more than a league minimum contract.

There were plenty of people claiming Mathis was better than Livings while both were on the team.  You might argue they were smarter Alexander.  But as they say, hindsight is 20/20.  I can look at what transpired and definitively claim Mathis is a better player than Livings and Alexander made the wrong decision.  Only an obstinate fool would look at history and claim otherwise.

Quote:Livings was injured his firat year in dallas.  he played injured and had surgery right after the season.  he did not fully recover and had another "procedure" on his knee before training camp.  The Cowboys worked out an injury settlement.  He was out of thre league due to injury.

Livings was given a 2-4 week prognosis after the 2nd scope.  That's not career ending.  It's not even career threatening.  That's a simple clean out.  It's like changing the oil or rotating the tires.  Not only is your claim Livings is out of the NFL because of injury bullshit, it's nothing but a damn lie.

Reminds me of when you claimed over and over again Joseph was too much of an injury risk to re-sign because he had the exact same foot injury two years in a row.  Until I showed you it wasn't even the same foot before you STFU.

Quote:Every NFL team was able to see those 114 snaps and Mathis looked so bad he could not get more than a league minimum contract.  This is you again claiming that you are smarter than every other GM and O-line coach in the league.  Mathis looked bad.  That is why he was playing behind Livings instead of winning starting time like he did before he was hurt in '09.

Seriously, just listen to what you are trying to argue.  .  .  "Mathis's play did not change from '09 to '10.  Instead Paul Alexander just forgot who Mathis was during the off season and could not remember that he was starting Mathis the year before."

That's not my arguement at all.  My argument is Paul Alexander was wrong in his evaluation; he made a mistake.  Why do I believe that?  Because I can look at the results and I'm not an idiot. Unlike some people who claimed a player had the exact same injury two years in a row, but the exact same injury didn't even affect the same damn body part.

You did this same crap with Bratkowski.  What's he doing now?  While the two OCs who replaced him moved on to HCing gigs.  Instead of starting a thread questioning which retread DE the Bengals will sign maybe you could start a thread questioning which retread coach the Bengals can sign who will telegraph the plays to the defense by the formations he uses?  I really miss reading those threads with you defending everything Bratkowski did, the same as you do with Alexander.

(05-06-2016, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know what your point id here.

Has there ever in the history of NFL or college football been a position coach anywhere who could "fix" every player?

Funny that the only way you can criticize PA is to set a standard that no other person on earth has ever met.

No one expect him to be perfect, but he hasn't gotten the center position right in over a decade.  I think fans have a legitimate reason to be impatient when he just hands the starting position to Bodine and after two seasons as the unquestioned weak link along the Oline he still didn't bring in anyone to compete for playing time and push Bodine.

The fact you think a reportor asking Alexander if Westerman can play center is "unjust" criticism of Bodine is indicative of your bias.  So I don't expect you to admit Livings sucked . . . until at least 3-4 seasons after Alexander is gone.  Like you did with Bratkowski.

(05-06-2016, 01:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There were plenty of people claiming Mathis was better than Livings while both were on the team.  You might argue they were smarter Alexander.  But as they say, hindsight is 20/20.  I can look at what transpired and definitively claim Mathis is a better player than Livings and Alexander made the wrong decision.  Only an obstinate fool would look at history and claim otherwise.




Livings was given a 2-4 week prognosis after the 2nd scope.  That's not career ending.  It's not even career threatening.  That's a simple clean out.  It's like changing the oil or rotating the tires.  Not only is your claim Livings is out of the NFL because of injury bullshit, it's nothing but a damn lie.

Reminds me of when you claimed over and over again Joseph was too much of an injury risk to re-sign because he had the exact same foot injury two years in a row.  Until I showed you it wasn't even the same foot before you STFU.


That's not my arguement at all.  My argument is Paul Alexander was wrong in his evaluation; he made a mistake.  Why do I believe that?  Because I can look at the results and I'm not an idiot. Unlike some people who claimed a player had the exact same injury two years in a row, but the exact same injury didn't even affect the same damn body part.

You did this same crap with Bratkowski.  What's he doing now?  While the two OCs who replaced him moved on to HCing gigs.  Instead of starting a thread questioning which retread DE the Bengals will sign maybe you could start a thread questioning which retread coach the Bengals can sign who will telegraph the plays to the defense by the formations he uses?  I really miss reading those threads with you defending everything Bratkowski did, the same as you do with Alexander.

thought there was something about mathis coming into that next year out of shape.

(05-06-2016, 01:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Livings was given a 2-4 week prognosis after the 2nd scope.  That's not career ending.  It's not even career threatening.  That's a simple clean out.  It's like changing the oil or rotating the tires.  Not only is your claim Livings is out of the NFL because of injury bullshit, it's nothing but a damn lie.

Not a lie at all.  Livings received an injury settlement when released by the cowboys.  Teams don't do that if they don't have to.

(05-06-2016, 01:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There were plenty of people claiming Mathis was better than Livings while both were on the team. 

And paul was giving mathis starts when he was playing well.  I never denied that.  But he got injured in '09 and was not as good when he returned.  Then in 2010 he was fat and out of shape.  Every team in the NFL saw how he played, and that is why he could not get more than a league minimum contract. 

(05-06-2016, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not a lie at all.  Livings received an injury settlement when released by the cowboys.  Teams don't do that if they don't have to.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000238630/article/nate-livings-cut-from-dallas-cowboys-injured-reserve

More bullshit.  By releasing him from IR, if another team signed him it would offset what Dallas owed him.  Meaning they could potentially save money if another team was stupid enough to repeat Jerry Jones' mistake.  Unfortunately for Dallas, not another GM was that stupid.

Quote:The Nate Livings experiment is over in Dallas.


The Cowboys on Thursday announced the release of the 30-year-old guard from injured reserve, only one season after he signed a five-year, $18.7 million contract armed with $6.2 million in guarantees.

With Tuesday's [/url]signing of six-time Pro Bowl lineman Brian Waters, Livings and his fat contract weren't worth waiting around for.

Livings is eligible to return to the Cowboys for their Nov. 10 meeting with the New Orleans Saints if Dallas chooses to bring him back. He's also free to sign elsewhere, but teams aren't breaking down the door for a player who's coming off multiple right knee operations. If Livings stays unemployed, the [url=http://www.nfl.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL]Cowboys still are on the hook this season for his $1.7 million base salary, fulfilling another astonishing contract blunder by Jerry Jones and Co.


On the field, Ronald Leary is penciled in at left guard, with Waters set to take over on the right side.

The Waters signing comes extremely close to Sunday night's season opener against the New York Giants. It might take weeks for Waters to hit his stride, but if he's able to stay in the lineup, it's an upgrade for a Cowboys line that enters the season as a major weakness on an otherwise talented team.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4714250/cowboys-release-nate-livings-off-ir

Quote:IRVING, Texas -- On Saturday, the Dallas Cowboys placed guard Nate Livings on injured reserve. On Thursday, the Cowboys reached an injury settlement with the veteran guard and released him, but it doesn’t mean he will never be in a Cowboys uniform again.


Livings’ $1.7 million base salary was guaranteed as part of the five-year, $19 million deal he signed as a free agent in 2012.
The team reached a three-week injury settlement with Livings, but he will be allowed to return to the Cowboys after the Nov. 3 game against Minnesota if they need offensive line help. If he joins another team, the Cowboys would be on the hook only for the difference between the $1.7 million and his new base salary.

Livings started every game last year at left guard but had right knee surgery following the season and a similar procedure during training camp. The time off will allow Livings to rehab on his own and get healthy. He will count $2.1 million against the salary cap in 2014.

Claiming he is out of the league because of injury is a lie.

(05-06-2016, 02:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000238630/article/nate-livings-cut-from-dallas-cowboys-injured-reserve

More bullshit.  By releasing him from IR, if another team signed him it would offset what Dallas owed him.  Meaning they could potentially save money if another team was stupid enough to repeat Jerry Jones' mistake.  Unfortunately for Dallas, not another GM was that stupid.



http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4714250/cowboys-release-nate-livings-off-ir


Claiming he is out of the league because of injury is a lie.

Funny you would make these claims when the links YOU posted say this.


 "teams aren't breaking down the door for a player who's coming off multiple right knee operations."


and


"the Cowboys reached an injury settlement with the veteran guard and released him,"

(05-06-2016, 01:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Reminds me of when you claimed over and over again Joseph was too much of an injury risk to re-sign because he had the exact same foot injury two years in a row.  Until I showed you it wasn't even the same foot before you STFU.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Johnathan-Joseph-A-decade-of-excellence/1b7ef0f3-7abc-46e1-b7ff-70dd615eba4a

“After my rookie year, my second year in the league, I broke my foot,” Joseph said. “The surgery went well but it didn’t heal all the way. The doctors told me I had the option to either have surgery again right then and there once I got cleared to practice, or I could wait it out and wait until it breaks again.”

Eager to get back on the field, Joseph chose the second option. He played just over half a season when suffered the same break in his left foot. It was the third time in his young career that Joseph had to deal with a broken bone in his foot, twice in his left and once in his right.








I don't remember arguing with you over this, but I am not surprise that you though you were right when you were clearly wrong.   

Other than our former RT Big Willie who should be HoF bound, I'm trying to think of how many times Alexander The Great Piano Man has sent one of our offensive linemen to the Pro Bowl or got them listed as All Pro?

A couple top 10 pick tackles, first round G, some of the highest paid tackles in the league. Should be a high number I'm thinking.

Quote:Offensive line coach Paul Alexander said after the morning walk through he’s using as many as six different centers out there . . .

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Camp-notes-BG-QB-knows-its-a-snap-No-numbers-game-for-Walker-Hillary-soaks-it-in-Centers-galore/80d65392-e488-459f-bda2-1ac111f67580

Sounds like we're very content with what we have at Center.

(05-06-2016, 08:08 PM)BengalChris Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Camp-notes-BG-QB-knows-its-a-snap-No-numbers-game-for-Walker-Hillary-soaks-it-in-Centers-galore/80d65392-e488-459f-bda2-1ac111f67580

Sounds like we're very content with what we have at Center.  

Yep, Bodine competing with a group of nobodies.  Should really push Russell to improve..

(05-06-2016, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny you would make these claims when the links YOU posted say this.


 "teams aren't breaking down the door for a player who's coming off multiple right knee operations."


and


"the Cowboys reached an injury settlement with the veteran guard and released him,"

We both know the number of knee surgeries. He was given a 2-4 week prognosis. Do you understand what that means? It means he could return to play in 2-4 weeks. Is that career ending? No.

(05-06-2016, 02:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Johnathan-Joseph-A-decade-of-excellence/1b7ef0f3-7abc-46e1-b7ff-70dd615eba4a

“After my rookie year, my second year in the league, I broke my foot,” Joseph said. “The surgery went well but it didn’t heal all the way. The doctors told me I had the option to either have surgery again right then and there once I got cleared to practice, or I could wait it out and wait until it breaks again.”

Eager to get back on the field, Joseph chose the second option. He played just over half a season when suffered the same break in his left foot. It was the third time in his young career that Joseph had to deal with a broken bone in his foot, twice in his left and once in his right.








I don't remember arguing with you over this, but I am not surprise that you though you were right when you were clearly wrong.   

Is that your story and you're sticking to it?