(06-26-2015, 12:13 PM)djs7685 Wrote: In hindsight, Manziel obviously wasn't NFL ready last year, but I know for a fact if we were in that situation that 99% of this board would have been screaming for our 1st round QB to play over a rapidly declining Hoyer.

Show me any NFL-related message board where any QB but the top 5 aren't met with clamors of "We know what we have in ______, let's see what (new guy) can do!" as soon as they lose 2 in a row and/or the QB throws 2-3 INTs in a game.

(06-26-2015, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Dalton struggles this year and/or the Bengals do not advance in the playoffs yet again, do you trade or cut Dalton to save $$ and draft a QB high to compete with McCarron? If so, which QB to draft?

The bengals desinged Dalton's contract for this exact situation.  If they were never going to consider moving on from hium they would not have structred the contract the way they did.

Same with Marvin just getting one year extensions.  if they were never going to consider replacing him they would give him longer contracts.

(06-26-2015, 12:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Show me any NFL-related message board where any QB but the top 5 aren't met with clamors of "We know what we have in ______, let's see what (new guy) can do!" as soon as they lose 2 in a row and/or the QB throws 2-3 INTs in a game.

Absolutely correct!  And most of the non-arrogant media types (like Gil Brandt on the NFL network - love that guy), will tell you that all first round QB's are a crap shoot anyway.  For every player like a Payton Manning (although on the decline somewhat now) there are a bunch of  Leafs and Manzells.

(06-26-2015, 12:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Show me any NFL-related message board where any QB but the top 5 aren't met with clamors of "We know what we have in ______, let's see what (new guy) can do!" as soon as they lose 2 in a row and/or the QB throws 2-3 INTs in a game.

My two best friends are a Steelers fan and a Cowboys fan.

I lol a little bit every time one of them complains about Ben/Romo.

I know you've mentioned similar things with people you know as well. It's really interesting to live outside of Cincinnati being a Bengals fan and the coming on these boards. The general perspective of things is vastly different in other markets, but it's sort of crazy how similar almost every fanbase is at times. I can't think of many teams that don't have at least a portion of their fans that don't try to run some of their better players out of town.

(06-26-2015, 01:09 PM)djs7685 Wrote:  It's really interesting to live outside of Cincinnati being a Bengals fan and the coming on these boards. The general perspective of things is vastly different in other markets,

I have lived in both Denver and Nashville.  I didn't see any "vast difference".

Every team has some fans who think they know more than all of the coaches.  Every team has some guy on the bench who many fans think is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Every team has fans who swear "This is the year!!".  And, most of all, every team has fans who claim there OC is too predictable.

What NFL team is close to where you live and what "vast differences" have you seen?

(06-26-2015, 08:46 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: They were 7-4 under Hoyer. They benched him in the Bills game (which is somewhat understandable) but Hoyer had done well in that position all year, being down. Browns almost beat the Colts, but defense ends up losing the game. They're now 7-6. What do they do? Bench Hoyer for Manziel. he had a 3 game stretch where he threw 7 interceptions and no touchdowns. Understandable to be upset about that. But Hoyer had a 11:5 TD to INT ratio beforehand.

So I can somewhat understand it, but everyone knew that Manziel was raw. He even looked raw against the Bills in the 4th quarter. People may clamor for McCarron. But I don't see him as an upgrade. Nor do I see him as a long term franchise QB.

With a 1st round pick on the bench, the starting QB is always going to have to play his tail off to keep the starting gig.

The Browns actually gave Hoyer a long leash. He had 4 terrible games in a row, starting vs Houston. His highest passer rating during that stretch was 61.2.

(06-26-2015, 12:47 PM)BengalD Wrote: Absolutely correct!  And most of the non-arrogant media types (like Gil Brandt on the NFL network - love that guy), will tell you that all first round QB's are a crap shoot anyway.  For every player like a Payton Manning (although on the decline somewhat now) there are a bunch of  Leafs and Manzells.

Guys like Manning and Luck are once in a decade types of quarterback. While most teams would love to have those guys, they probably wouldn't shy away from the Daltons of the league either. Im sure every coach would rather have a decent player who's not a distraction, then a guy who is a mess on and off the field.

(06-26-2015, 01:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have lived in both Denver and Nashville.  I didn't see any "vast difference".

Every team has some fans who think they know more than all of the coaches.  Every team has some guy on the bench who many fans think is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Every team has fans who swear "This is the year!!".  And, most of all, every team has fans who claim there OC is too predictable.

What NFL team is close to where you live and what "vast differences" have you seen?

I live in Western PA, somewhere between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

A "down year" to Steelers fans is when they go 8-8. Some other fanbases wouldn't consider that as terrible as most Steelers fans do because in Pittsburgh, they're used to being better than that.

A "good year" to Browns fans is when they don't implode and can laugh at the Raiders or Jaguars instead of the entire NFL pointing a finger at them.

Have Bengals fans spent the last decade calling 8-8 seasons a "down year"?? Do Bengals fans consider winning between 4-7 games to be a bright future ahead??

Hence the reason I said the general perspective.

I agree with all of the things you said about the different portions of the fanbase, every team has those in every sport. That's not what I was talking about though. As far as your jab about my thoughts of Bratkowski, I just wasn't a huge fan of his, even going back and watching the games from 5-10 years ago his playcalling didn't impress me. I'm not a big fan of Hue either, but I did like Jay Gruden. That may be surprising as he was probably more hated in JN than Brat was when he was around. Gruden got blamed for EVERYTHING, but the dude was actually a solid coordinator IMO.

(06-26-2015, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Dalton struggles this year and/or the Bengals do not advance in the playoffs yet again, do you trade or cut Dalton to save $$ and draft a QB high to compete with McCarron? If so, which QB to draft?

Are there any QBs worth drafting that people feel would be an upgrade? What about a QB not projected in the top 10?

People should be prepared for a possible decline if Dalton and/or Lewis are gone, similar to Dusty Baker being fired for the Reds. However, even though it could be worse, there's also still hope of an improvement over the current QB and HC. Worth the risk?

If the Bengals do not win a playoff game and it's obvious that Dalton's game has faltered, IE: most players are healtyh and he can't get it done, then yeah I see the Bengals going a different route. I could also see Dalton signing somewhere and starting.

Next year's draft class is a much better one in the QB position than the past two years. So if the Bengals draft a QB in the first 2 rounds, he's most likely going to start over McCarron.

There's Cook, Hackenberg, Miller, Prescott, Goff, and Jones. That's 5 players I would start over McCarron right away. Then I'm very intrigued by Kiel and Brissett, but would like to see another year under their belts and see how they progressed. Brissett has a huge chance to raise his stock.

(06-26-2015, 01:23 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I live in Western PA, somewhere between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

A "down year" to Steelers fans is when they go 8-8. Some other fanbases wouldn't consider that as terrible as most Steelers fans do because in Pittsburgh, they're used to being better than that.

If we go 8-8 this year every single person here will call it a down year.

(06-26-2015, 01:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Browns actually gave Hoyer a long leash. He had 4 terrible games in a row, starting vs Houston. His highest passer rating during that stretch was 61.2.

And the last one that got him benched was a 20-something passer rating.

But as you said, the fact that the #2 QB was a first round pick made it even harder on Hoyer.  Not just the fans, but the franchise is eager to show that they made a good decision taking a QB in the first round.

(06-26-2015, 01:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If we go 8-8 this year every single person here will call it a down year.

Absolutely, and perspective can definitely change based on years of things changing.

I was just explaining what I meant by the general perspective being different from city to city.

(06-26-2015, 01:09 PM)djs7685 Wrote: My two best friends are a Steelers fan and a Cowboys fan.

I lol a little bit every time one of them complains about Ben/Romo.

I know you've mentioned similar things with people you know as well. It's really interesting to live outside of Cincinnati being a Bengals fan and the coming on these boards. The general perspective of things is vastly different in other markets, but it's sort of crazy how similar almost every fanbase is at times. I can't think of many teams that don't have at least a portion of their fans that don't try to run some of their better players out of town.

Indeed.  Then again, I've been a Bears/Bengals fan since the late 80s and when it comes to QBs I see the Kitna/Palmer/Dalton years as a veritable paradise compared to the laundry list of QBs the Bears and Bengals paraded out prior.

(06-26-2015, 12:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The bengals desinged Dalton's contract for this exact situation.  If they were never going to consider moving on from hium they would not have structred the contract the way they did.

Same with Marvin just getting one year extensions.  if they were never going to consider replacing him they would give him longer contracts.

I know that.

I assume you are in favor of doing so then? If so, which QB(s) do you realistically think would be an upgrade over Dalton to compete with McCarron? I say realistically because I think at least one of Cook, Hackenberg, and possibly Jones will go in the top 5. Two of them in the top 10. I don't think the Bengals will be bad enough to draft in the top 5, so I don't think Cook is realistic barring a big trade up.

(06-26-2015, 02:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know that.

I assume you are in favor of doing so then? If so, which QB(s) do you realistically think would be an upgrade over Dalton to compete with McCarron? I say realistically because I think at least one of Cook, Hackenberg, and possibly Jones will go in the top 5. Two of them in the top 10. I don't think the Bengals will be bad enough to draft in the top 5, so I don't think Cook is realistic barring a big trade up.

Given those 3 options (Cook Hackenberg Jones) I'd probably be inclined to take the field when it comes to finding a good QB

(06-26-2015, 02:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know that.

I assume you are in favor of doing so then? If so, which QB(s) do you realistically think would be an upgrade over Dalton to compete with McCarron? I say realistically because I think at least one of Cook, Hackenberg, and possibly Jones will go in the top 5. Two of them in the top 10. I don't think the Bengals will be bad enough to draft in the top 5, so I don't think Cook is realistic barring a big trade up.

Way too early to predict what QB will go high in the draft.

At this point in their college careers Jake Locker was considered a lock to go #1 overall, and Cam Newton was a complete unknown.

(06-26-2015, 03:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Way too early to predict what QB will go high in the draft.

At this point in there college careers Jake Locker was considered a lock to go #1 overall, and no one had even heard of Cam Newton.

No foolin'.  For a team that needed a QB in 2011 and had a top 5 pick we did exceedingly well if you ask me.  The fact that the 3 QBs taken before Dalton were disgraced within 3 years and are completely irrelevant says a lot. 3 QB busts taken in the first round in a row over a span of 5 picks is pretty significant.

Dre K was on Rich Eisen adding to the McCarron flame today. He said job is still Andy's but AJ is on his tail. He also said he's gonna be the best cb again, so.....

(06-26-2015, 12:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The bengals desinged Dalton's contract for this exact situation.  If they were never going to consider moving on from hium they would not have structred the contract the way they did.

Same with Marvin just getting one year extensions.  if they were never going to consider replacing him they would give him longer contracts.

I thought they just let Marvin out on a one-year leash to avoid some fans' heads exploding! 

(06-21-2015, 10:29 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I agree.  Andy was given the starting job when he got here, and has never dealt with any pressure to lose his spot.  Maybe this will light that fire.

I see this sentiment over and over, but I just don't get it. Everything I've seen seems to suggest that Andy is a hard worker. I don't think it's a lack of desire or effort, it's a lack of ability. I wouldn't be surprised if having a guy breathing down his neck makes him perform worse.