(06-06-2016, 01:07 AM)MrRager Wrote: You have always had a bias against Wilson and refuse to accept any rate stat. 

Wilson this year:
1st in passer rating
4rd in Y/A
6th in TD
2nd in TD%
Only threw 8 INTs (PFR didn't sort out the players with like 15 attempts so I can't find a good ranking)
6th in INT%
2nd in AY/A
4th in ESPN's QBR
3rd in ANY/A
Had three 4th quarter comebacks, which was one behind the leader.

Anyway you slice it he had a great year. If you want to say he played bad defenses, fine. Other QBs played bad defenses throughout the year and none of them put up the end of year numbers or the performances he did.  He did have a poorish start to the year, but he and Cam were the best QBs down the stretch last year. He was a big reason why the Seahawks were able to secure another division title.

If you want any context on how well he played you can also watch the games. He has an amazing ability to avoid sacks and extend plays to find the open man. He is like the NFL version of heisman Johnny Manziel. He has quite possibly the worst offensive line in football and was still able to produce the best passer rating in the NFL. He also did all of this with hurt best play maker hurt (Graham) and with his star RB hurt. People bashed the Seahawks receivers for years and he made Baldwin look like an absolute star this year. 

Let's also remember his 553 yards rushing as well. 

I still cannot believe there are people in this world who don't buy into Russel Wilson. He is a future HOFer and one of the best, most efficient, most exciting players the league has seen in years. 

He has played great his entire career and has done nothing but improve, yet people still doubt how incredibly well he has played without an offensive line or receiving weapons. The dude is a baller. 

Anyway I'll just leave it as this because I have discussed Wilson with you in the past and I know you're too stubborn to admit he was one of the best QBs in the NFL this year and the best young QB in the NFL since he was drafted. 

You do know the biggest reason why he takes so many sacks is because of himself, right? His OL isn't as bad as what people try to make it out to be. He just holds on to the ball forever, and that's why he gets sacked the most out of any QB in the last few years.

Wilson has always benefited from a run first offense, and play actions. He's not a very good pocket QB. He plays in a very simple offense where he rarely ever does any kind of audibles. He has relied on play action more than any other QB in the league since coming to the NFL.

If he didn't have a run at some of the worst defenses in the NFL, and still have one of the best defenses we probably wouldn't even be talking about Wilson. He's just a product of the system he's in. He plays in a system that's very conservative, and let's the run game and defense do all the heavy lifting, and when the opposing defense bites down on the run game he play actions and makes a big play. He's 1-13 against teams who have scored more than 24 points on him. He's not clutch, he's just surrounded by great players.

(06-06-2016, 01:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Psssst....the Cardinals won the NFC West by 3 games.

Whoops. Meant playoff birth.

(06-06-2016, 01:53 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So my question to you is you don;t think Dalton was a top 5 QB last year ?

I do think Dalton was a top 5 QB last year. Right at five. I was just making a case for Wilson. 

1. Brady
2. Palmer
3. Wilson
4. Cam
5. Dalton
6. Brees

Now this is just for 2015 and my overall QB rankings would be very different. 

(06-06-2016, 01:53 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So my question to you is you don;t think Dalton was a top 5 QB last year ?

Hmm, he was:

about 9th in Comp %
21st in Yards
about 3rd in Avg
24th in Yards per Game
14th in TDs
25th in INTs (good to be low on the list here, obviously)
22nd in First Downs
18th in First Down %
6th in Longest TD pass
13th in 20+
8th in 40+
27th in Sacks (again, good to be low here)
2nd in Passer Rating


(I put about for the ones that were thrown off by guys throwing 1 pass for a big gain on a gadget play)

So, some of Dalton's stats are quite laudable, but I honestly can't say there would only be 4 QBs in the league most GMs would take over 12 and a fraction of starts by Dalton.  The guy was really good when he played, but not being available the entirety of the season he was lighting it up hurts.

(06-06-2016, 02:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, he was:

about 9th in Comp %
21st in Yards
about 3rd in Avg
24th in Yards per Game
14th in TDs
25th in INTs (good to be low on the list here, obviously)
22nd in First Downs
18th in First Down %
6th in Longest TD pass
13th in 20+
8th in 40+
27th in Sacks (again, good to be low here)
2nd in Passer Rating


(I put about for the ones that were thrown off by guys throwing 1 pass for a big gain on a gadget play)

So, some of Dalton's stats are quite laudable, but I honestly can't say there would only be 4 QBs in the league most GMs would take over 12 and a fraction of starts by Dalton.  The guy was really good when he played, but not being available the entirety of the season he was lighting it up hurts.

List the qb's you would take over Dalton based on last year Andy.  

(06-06-2016, 02:04 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You do know the biggest reason why he takes so many sacks is because of himself, right? His OL isn't as bad as what people try to make it out to be. He just holds on to the ball forever, and that's why he gets sacked the most out of any QB in the last few years.

Wilson has always benefited from a run first offense, and play actions. He's not a very good pocket QB. He plays in a very simple offense where he rarely ever does any kind of audibles. He has relied on play action more than any other QB in the league since coming to the NFL.

If he didn't have a run at some of the worst defenses in the NFL, and still have one of the best defenses we probably wouldn't even be talking about Wilson. He's just a product of the system he's in. He plays in a system that's very conservative, and let's the run game and defense do all the heavy lifting, and when the opposing defense bites down on the run game he play actions and makes a big play. He's 1-13 against teams who have scored more than 24 points on him. He's not clutch, he's just surrounded by great players.

Who were the great offensive players around him last year? Graham was hurt, Lynch was hurt, the line was shit (rankings that take into account how long a QB holds the ball still rank their line bottom five), and his group of receivers were the same decent-ish players he has had for years. The undrafted rookie Rawls was the reason Wilson played as well as any QB in the NFL? 

I also believe Wilson himself is a large part of the reason the running game has been so good in Seattle. He is always a threat to run himself and defenses must keep an eye on him so Lynch was able to breakout into the consistent star he was once Wilson arrived. It is also why Rawls looked so good and Christine Michael can be a backup in Seattle, but struggle in Dallas. Teams cannot stack the box against Wilson, they need to spy him. His presence and running ability alone help the running game, which in turn helps him air the ball out as well as any QB in the NFL. 

We've seen this system work in the past, but those QB generally flame out once teams figure out how to defend it (RGIII, Kaep, Taylor). The difference is Wilson is an incredibly smart player who can consistently find the open man from the pocket. It's why he has not only sustained in this type of offense when many similar players fail, but flourish and improve to the top of the NFL rankings. You can continue to discount him, but Seattle is going to continue to be good with him on the team, even if the defense regresses, and he will continue to be the most efficient QB in the NFL. 

(06-06-2016, 02:18 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: List the qb's you would take over Dalton based on last year Andy.  

Are we factoring in the fact that many of the QBs ranked above Andy played 16-19 games to his 12?

(06-06-2016, 02:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, he was:

about 9th in Comp %
21st in Yards
about 3rd in Avg
24th in Yards per Game
14th in TDs
25th in INTs (good to be low on the list here, obviously)
22nd in First Downs
18th in First Down %
6th in Longest TD pass
13th in 20+
8th in 40+
27th in Sacks (again, good to be low here)
2nd in Passer Rating


(I put about for the ones that were thrown off by guys throwing 1 pass for a big gain on a gadget play)

So, some of Dalton's stats are quite laudable, but I honestly can't say there would only be 4 QBs in the league most GMs would take over 12 and a fraction of starts by Dalton.  The guy was really good when he played, but not being available the entirety of the season he was lighting it up hurts.

There are too many volume stats here to make a good assessment. Especially when Dalton missed 4 games. I'd like to see TD%, INT%, ANY/A, Y/A, etc.

Seeing 14th in TDs makes you think he wasn't great, but he only had like 3/4 the attempts of other QBs. 

(06-06-2016, 02:24 AM)MrRager Wrote: There are too many volume stats here to make a good assessment. Especially when Dalton missed 4 games. I'd like to see TD%, INT%, ANY/A, Y/A, etc.

Seeing 14th in TDs makes you think he wasn't great, but he only had like 3/4 the attempts of other QBs. 

See, I think a guy only playing the first 12 games of the season is a legit knock against him.  We can say that Dalton was playing top 5 football, but he wasn't a top 5 QB last year because he was VERY good, but his season ended 8 weeks too soon to win it all.

(06-06-2016, 02:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: See, I think a guy only playing the first 12 games of the season is a legit knock against him.  We can say that Dalton was playing top 5 football, but he wasn't a top 5 QB last year because he was VERY good, but his season ended 8 weeks too soon to win it all.

I understand that point, but I find it very hard to hold a freak injury against someone in a violent game. He played extremely well when his body allowed it. 

I understand knocking someone who is seemingly injured all of the time though. Romo may get knocked down because he can't stay healthy anymore. Ben might get knocked down a peg. Bradford might go from bad to awful. But it is really hard for me to hold a one time freak injury against Dalton. 

(06-06-2016, 02:21 AM)MrRager Wrote: Who were the great offensive players around him last year? Graham was hurt, Lynch was hurt, the line was shit (rankings that take into account how long a QB holds the ball still rank their line bottom five), and his group of receivers were the same decent-ish players he has had for years. The undrafted rookie Rawls was the reason Wilson played as well as any QB in the NFL? 

I also believe Wilson himself is a large part of the reason the running game has been so good in Seattle. He is always a threat to run himself and defenses must keep an eye on him so Lynch was able to breakout into the consistent star he was once Wilson arrived. It is also why Rawls looked so good and Christine Michael can be a backup in Seattle, but struggle in Dallas. Teams cannot stack the box against Wilson, they need to spy him. His presence and running ability alone help the running game, which in turn helps him air the ball out as well as any QB in the NFL. 

We've seen this system work in the past, but those QB generally flame out once teams figure out how to defend it (RGIII, Kaep, Taylor). The difference is Wilson is an incredibly smart player who can consistently find the open man from the pocket. It's why he has not only sustained in this type of offense when many similar players fail, but flourish and improve to the top of the NFL rankings. You can continue to discount him, but Seattle is going to continue to be good with him on the team, even if the defense regresses, and he will continue to be the most efficient QB in the NFL. 

Wilson has had possibly the best defense of all time around him his career. Lynch was hurt last year, but he still had a good RB. You can't say just because Rawls went undraft he's bad. Burfict went undrafted and he's possibly the best defensive player that we have. The seahawks offensive line isn't that bad, and the reason why it's always ranked so low is because Wilson always tries to extend plays and takes a lot of sacks. He had Graham (who is better than Eifert) who played the majority of the season last year, with Baldwin (who is better than Marvin Jones), and Kearse (who is better than Sanu). Plus he had Tyler Lockett who showed that he can be a big play maker.

The year before Wilson became the starter for the Seahawks Lynch had comparable stats to what he's been doing while Wilson has been the starter. Lynch has benefited from having a QB like Wilson, but not to the extent that you try to act like he's been.

(06-06-2016, 02:35 AM)MrRager Wrote: I understand that point, but I find it very hard to hold a freak injury against someone in a violent game. He played extremely well when his body allowed it. 

I understand knocking someone who is seemingly injured all of the time though. Romo may get knocked down because he can't stay healthy anymore. Ben might get knocked down a peg. Bradford might go from bad to awful. But it is really hard for me to hold a one time freak injury against Dalton. 

I hear ya, and Andy obviously has a history of being very healthy in this sport.  The thing is, I know I for a fact would often use the whole argument of:

Well, it's Big Ben for 12-16 games and (crap backup) for 1-4, as a knock against him.  I get it, when it happens MORE than it doesn't it's more of an apt strike against him.  The thing is I was asked about Dalton being a top 5 QB in 2015 and when someone says IN 2015 that makes me look at his 2015 injury in a different light.

Taken in a one-year snapshot, Dalton wasn't a top 5 QB.  He was on the path, but he didn't finish it.  And at the end of the day the nature of the injury, or whether it happens 1 time or every time doesn't change who gets the Lombardi.  Dalton was on the sideline with a broken thumb.  It sucks, but that's the end of the road for 2015. We can put the fantasy SB trophy for 2015 next to the fantasy one for 2005.

(06-06-2016, 02:36 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Wilson has had possibly the best defense of all time around him his career. Lynch was hurt last year, but he still had a good RB. You can't say just because Rawls went undraft he's bad. Burfict went undrafted and he's possibly the best defensive player that we have. The seahawks offensive line isn't that bad, and the reason why it's always ranked so low is because Wilson always tries to extend plays and takes a lot of sacks. He had Graham (who is better than Eifert) who played the majority of the season last year, with Baldwin (who is better than Marvin Jones), and Kearse (who is better than Sanu). Plus he had Tyler Lockett who showed that he can be a big play maker.

The year before Wilson became the starter for the Seahawks Lynch had comparable stats to what he's been doing while Wilson has been the starter. Lynch has benefited from having a QB like Wilson, but not to the extent that you try to act like he's been.

There is zero statistical evidence that the defense plays a role in a QB's performance. That' why I didn't even bother to mention them. Yes, it helps them win games, but doesn't make Wilson appear better than he is. I am not one of those poeple who thinks winning is the be all end all in ranking QBs. In fact, team success can be one of the worst ways to rank QBs.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4251/does-a-quarterback-s-defense-impact-his-performance#

This was the first link I could find real quick, but there was a similar PFF and FO post I've read. 

Rawls was good, and I think he is a good player, but Wilson helps make him look even better. Look at how well Lynch played before he played with Wilson. He wasn't great in Buffalo. Either way I thought we were just talking about 2015. 

The line is bad. I even mentioned in my previous post that sites rank them bad when they account for how long a QB holds the ball. PFF attributes sacks/pressures to QBs if they think it was his fault for holding onto the ball for too long and they still rated the line #30 in the league. 

He only had Graham for 10 games and actually performed better with him out. You always talked about how Dalton never had any weapons around him, but now you going to argue that Wilson has had a solid supporting cast of receivers? That's crazy. Sure a few of their players were better than our 3rd and 5th options on the team, but you're comparing their best option to our third. Of course Baldwin is better than Jones. I would have been very curious to see what you thought of Baldwin and Kearse before this year. That is a below average starting WR duo no matter how you slice it. 

I said I was done after the first post, but for some reason kept responding. I'm done. Wilson is a top 7ish QB in the NFL, had a top 3 season last year, and will most likely continue to be great no matter what happens around him. You can continue to ignore and place all of his success on people around him instead of appreciating the young, exciting career of a player on the path to the HOF.  

(06-06-2016, 03:55 AM)MrRager Wrote: There is zero statistical evidence that the defense plays a role in a QB's performance. That' why I didn't even bother to mention them. Yes, it helps them win games, but doesn't make Wilson appear better than he is. I am not one of those poeple who thinks winning is the be all end all in ranking QBs. In fact, team success can be one of the worst ways to rank QBs.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4251/does-a-quarterback-s-defense-impact-his-performance#

This was the first link I could find real quick, but there was a similar PFF and FO post I've read. 

Rawls was good, and I think he is a good player, but Wilson helps make him look even better. Look at how well Lynch played before he played with Wilson. He wasn't great in Buffalo. Either way I thought we were just talking about 2015. 

The line is bad. I even mentioned in my previous post that sites rank them bad when they account for how long a QB holds the ball. PFF attributes sacks/pressures to QBs if they think it was his fault for holding onto the ball for too long and they still rated the line #30 in the league. 

He only had Graham for 10 games and actually performed better with him out. You always talked about how Dalton never had any weapons around him, but now you going to argue that Wilson has had a solid supporting cast of receivers? That's crazy. Sure a few of their players were better than our 3rd and 5th options on the team, but you're comparing their best option to our third. Of course Baldwin is better than Jones. I would have been very curious to see what you thought of Baldwin and Kearse before this year. That is a below average starting WR duo no matter how you slice it. 

I said I was done after the first post, but for some reason kept responding. I'm done. Wilson is a top 7ish QB in the NFL, had a top 3 season last year, and will most likely continue to be great no matter what happens around him. You can continue to ignore and place all of his success on people around him instead of appreciating the young, exciting career of a player on the path to the HOF.  

lol if you don't think that defense helps a QB then you have a lot to learn. A good defense can put you in good field position to score more points. A good defense will allow your offense to open more of the playbook. A good defense allows your offense to be on the field longer wearing down the opponents defense. It's very telling that you don't think that defenses don't help or hurt QBs.

The year before Wilson joined the Seahawks Lynch's numbers were 1200 yards and 12 TDs, and under Wilson he averaged 180 more yards a season and the same amount of TDs. Like I said, he helped Lynch, but he didn't help him as much as you try to claim.

Dalton hasn't had very good weapons throughout his career. The only year that you could say he had above average weapons was in 2013, and he had good weapons in 2015. Wilson has had one of the best running games in the league throughout his career, which opens up the pass game tremendously, but you keep trying to ignore that, or maybe you just didn't know that. He has still had solid receivers on top of that too. Maybe no dominant #1 receiver, but a good running game easily makes up for that.

It seems that a lot of your assumptions are based on lack of knowledge of the game.

(06-05-2016, 10:07 PM)MrRager Wrote: Woah, what now? You don't think Wilson was a top 5 QB last year? That's asinine to me. Wilson was top 3 last season and better than Rodgers 100%. This is without even adding his rushing ability.

You are probably right after thinking about his play last year some more. Replace Rodgers who had a down year with Wilson.

But still, Dalton was a top 5 QB as well before the injury.

(06-06-2016, 02:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, he was:

about 9th in Comp %
21st in Yards
about 3rd in Avg
24th in Yards per Game
14th in TDs
25th in INTs (good to be low on the list here, obviously)
22nd in First Downs
18th in First Down %
6th in Longest TD pass
13th in 20+
8th in 40+
27th in Sacks (again, good to be low here)
2nd in Passer Rating

(I put about for the ones that were thrown off by guys throwing 1 pass for a big gain on a gadget play)

So, some of Dalton's stats are quite laudable, but I honestly can't say there would only be 4 QBs in the league most GMs would take over 12 and a fraction of starts by Dalton.  The guy was really good when he played, but not being available the entirety of the season he was lighting it up hurts.

http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2015&type=reg&mode=P&conf=&limit=100&sort=passintpct

2nd in passer rating (arguably the most important stat, as it takes all stats into account)
2nd in Yards/Attempt
4th in TD%
8th best INT%
8th in completion % 
15th in Yards/Game (from his 12 complete games) 

I guess I can respect calling him out for missing games, but I feel that's irrelevant to judging how he performed on the field. There weren't 5 QBs who played better than Dalton last year. Keep in mind that some of the QBs that were better than him in some categories were probably far worse in others. Dalton was probably in a very exclusive club in ranking this highly in all the major categories.

It's a big reason why he was top 5 in most MVP discussions until he went down. 

(06-06-2016, 05:18 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: lol if you don't think that defense helps a QB then you have a lot to learn. A good defense can put you in good field position to score more points. A good defense will allow your offense to open more of the playbook. A good defense allows your offense to be on the field longer wearing down the opponents defense. It's very telling that you don't think that defenses don't help or hurt QBs.

The year before Wilson joined the Seahawks Lynch's numbers were 1200 yards and 12 TDs, and under Wilson he averaged 180 more yards a season and the same amount of TDs. Like I said, he helped Lynch, but he didn't help him as much as you try to claim.

Dalton hasn't had very good weapons throughout his career. The only year that you could say he had above average weapons was in 2013, and he had good weapons in 2015. Wilson has had one of the best running games in the league throughout his career, which opens up the pass game tremendously, but you keep trying to ignore that, or maybe you just didn't know that. He has still had solid receivers on top of that too. Maybe no dominant #1 receiver, but a good running game easily makes up for that.

It seems that a lot of your assumptions are based on lack of knowledge of the game.

Oh, I do think it does help, but without any evidence to back it up, I don't think it helps as much as you do. It won't make an average QB have the best start to a career the NFL has ever seen. It won't make some scrub have the best passer rating in the NFL. Wilson still makes all the throws. 

The Seahawks running game is based around Wilson. He is a major reason why the running game is so good. Teams do not stack the box against him as he is a major threat to burn them deep with one of the best arms in the NFL, and teams like to keep a spy on him because of his mobility. The read option system they run is also good in keeping defenders at bay, but can only succeed long term when you have a QB who can pass like the best young QB in the NFL from the pocket like Wilson. Statistically, he helps bolster how well the running game has looked by adding the dynamic to his offense I just mentioned above and by simply adding ~650 yards per year to the year end rushing totals. If you take out the yard he adds himself, the Seahawks are a boarderline top 10 rushing team and average in Y/A. So his running attack is far from creating the best young QB in the NFL out of some average player. It just doesn't work like that.  

(06-06-2016, 02:09 PM)MrRager Wrote: Oh, I do think it does help, but without any evidence to back it up, I don't think it helps as much as you do. It won't make an average QB have the best start to a career the NFL has ever seen. It won't make some scrub have the best passer rating in the NFL. Wilson still makes all the throws. 

The Seahawks running game is based around Wilson. He is a major reason why the running game is so good. Teams do not stack the box against him as he is a major threat to burn them deep with one of the best arms in the NFL, and teams like to keep a spy on him because of his mobility. The read option system they run is also good in keeping defenders at bay, but can only succeed long term when you have a QB who can pass like the best young QB in the NFL from the pocket like Wilson. Statistically, he helps bolster how well the running game has looked by adding the dynamic to his offense I just mentioned above and by simply adding ~650 yards per year to the year end rushing totals. If you take out the yard he adds himself, the Seahawks are a boarderline top 10 rushing team and average in Y/A. So his running attack is far from creating the best young QB in the NFL out of some average player. It just doesn't work like that.  

You act like Wilson has lead a potent offense his whole career. That's just simply not true. He's had mediocre #s through his career. The only time he's had good stats is last year. Every other year people only could talk about how efficient he was. The article that you linked about defenses even said that defenses help QBs efficiency. If Wilson always had good stats other than stuff for efficiency I would agree with you, but he doesn't (last year was the first year he's had over 3500 yards and 26 TDs). If Wilson didn't have his last games against cup cake defenses he would have ended up with mediocre stats, since he was 10 TDs and 7 INTs after his 9th game. Arizona (who rested their players) and Minnesota were the only decent defenses they played during that stretch. Wilson is no where close to the QB you try to make him out to be. If he didn't have the defense (which is possibly the best defense of all time) and run game (which has been in the top 3 consistently) around him his whole career he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

(06-06-2016, 02:04 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You do know the biggest reason why he takes so many sacks is because of himself, right? His OL isn't as bad as what people try to make it out to be. He just holds on to the ball forever, and that's why he gets sacked the most out of any QB in the last few years.

Wilson has always benefited from a run first offense, and play actions. He's not a very good pocket QB. He plays in a very simple offense where he rarely ever does any kind of audibles. He has relied on play action more than any other QB in the league since coming to the NFL.

If he didn't have a run at some of the worst defenses in the NFL, and still have one of the best defenses we probably wouldn't even be talking about Wilson. He's just a product of the system he's in. He plays in a system that's very conservative, and let's the run game and defense do all the heavy lifting, and when the opposing defense bites down on the run game he play actions and makes a big play. He's 1-13 against teams who have scored more than 24 points on him. He's not clutch, he's just surrounded by great players.

lol...sub Dalton for Wilson and your statement, while still uninformed, is much more accurate. Give us all a break. 

(06-07-2016, 09:56 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: lol...sub Dalton for Wilson and your statement, while still uninformed, is much more accurate. Give us all a break. 

No it's not. That's just silly if you think it is, but we all know you have a bias against Dalton.

(06-07-2016, 09:58 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No it's not. That's just silly if you think it is, but we all know you have a bias against Dalton.

As I said it is still a misinformed statement... Dalton played his best year to date last year. He had a very very good year. Would have liked to see what he would have accomplished had he not gotten hurt. I feel confident he would have erased the statement that "we have not won a playoff game in 25 year". Is that statement biased against Dalton? 

While it is true I do not think Dalton's raw skills are very impressive. I do like his intangibles...he is not a better QB in any way than Wison, last year or any year. PS...I am not a fan of Wilson by any stretch. I just have a hard time not dealing with the facts.

Your bias for Dalton and bias against all other QB's is what is most evident. If you took the name out of your rant and asked 100 educated football people if you were writing about Dalton or Wilson what do you think the result would be...lol.

You are a great fan of Dalton's and I respect that. I do not feel you are much of a Bengal's fan. To prop Dalton up you make a habit of tearing down his teammates. Always pointing out that the other QB have better weapons...you do this without fail. You act as if AJ is a bottom tier receiver (his IS top 5), you make statements against Eifert, discount our defense and running backs. 

I am all for you being the Champion of Dalton...just do it with a little less hate for his teammates. Your love affair would be much more tolerable if is was less hate filled for other Bengal's. Your post are a huge reason I find myself posting legitimate STATS that expose Dalton...it's not about AD, it's about defending his surrounding cast that you attempt to discount.