(06-13-2016, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Whatever, he got beat more than Adam and Leon, We just disagree.

Sounds like Kirkpatrick is a coach or something the way you defend him Fred. I am not a Kirkpatrick hater
either, i just tell it like i see it. When there is a weak link on the team i point it out. We have a very good
Secondary and Kirkpatrick was the weak link last year no matter how you try to spin it.


Dre played that amount of snaps cause the coaches were trying to finally get the guy to be our starter.

He was a first round pick after all and we needed to integrate him into the starting lineup eventually.

Doesn't mean Dre was better than Hall last year. Hall has been a great CB for us, Dre has not period.

Sorry I don't agree with this assumption at all.. coaches don;t try to get a guy to be a starter, they assess their performance against their other players or in this case CBs and play who they feel are the best at that position.

(06-13-2016, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He was targeted the most because he was the weakest link in our secondary.  But that does not mean he was a bad player when compared to the rest of the league.

And you have never answered why other teams could not just move down the field easily by picking on Dre.  If he was that bad and targeted that much then opposing QBs should have put up big numbers.

One thing a lot of you are forgetting is what was Dre's assignment?  By this, I not only mean who was he covering on the other team, but  what was he coached to do?  Was it to avoid getting beat over the top at all costs?  If he was covering the top threat on most teams, this could be a different strategy than employed at the other CB spot.  

I think Dre had an off year in 2015, but I loved what I saw at the end of 2014 out of him.  I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that when our defensive line generated better pressure, that he will get more INTs and play at a much higher level...at least in the eyes of PFT.  

(06-13-2016, 04:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Sorry I don't agree with this assumption at all.. coaches don;t try to get a guy to be a starter, they assess their performance against their other players or in this case CBs and play who they feel are the best at that position.

Okay, we disagree then Essex.

I don't think for one moment that the coaches would of started Dennard over Kirkpatrick even if Dennard was
playing better. They had to get Dre on the field to see what he had as him being the older first round pick CB.

Just like this year if Dre plays bad, Dennard would be the first man up to take his job before WJ3. Even if WJ3
is playing a bit better. We won't start a rookie this year if we are trying to integrate Dennard into a starter.

(06-14-2016, 12:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, we disagree then Essex.

I don't think for one moment that the coaches would of started Dennard over Kirkpatrick even if Dennard was
playing better. They had to get Dre on the field to see what he had as him being the older first round pick CB.

Just like this year if Dre plays bad, Dennard would be the first man up to take his job before WJ3. Even if WJ3
is playing a bit better. We won't start a rookie this year if we are trying to integrate Dennard into a starter.

Exactly right with kirk coming on a contract year he had to play.   But there was no indicators that dennard was doing better.       This year Dennard would be first up unless hurt as his contract approaches

(06-14-2016, 12:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Exactly right with kirk coming on a contract year he had to play.   But there was no indicators that dennard was doing better.       This year Dennard would be first up unless hurt as his contract approaches

Yep and i am predicting that if Dre doesn't play better and Dennard is healthy Dennard will be starting opposite
of Adam come midseason. This isn't a bad thing either necessarily cause we would start to see what we have from
Dennard and what little i have seen i like.

As much as i have seen Kirkpatrick get beat it has not been for a lot of TD's. He has been a bend but not break CB.

So i think even if he keeps up his poor play it shouldn't cost us games.

(06-14-2016, 02:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep and i am predicting that if Dre doesn't play better and Dennard is healthy Dennard will be starting opposite
of Adam come midseason. This isn't a bad thing either necessarily cause we would start to see what we have from
Dennard and what little i have seen i like.

As much as i have seen Kirkpatrick get beat it has not been for a lot of TD's. He has been a bend but not break CB.

So i think even if he keeps up his poor play it shouldn't cost us games.

Yeah im fine with one of the younger guys taking the spot from him... and to me that doesn't mean I wantKirk gone if he proves he cant be a starter(here) he is still talented enough to be on the field covering a 3rd option

(06-14-2016, 02:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah im fine with one of the younger guys taking the spot from him... and to me that doesn't mean I wantKirk gone if he proves he cant be a starter(here) he is still talented enough to be on the field covering a 3rd option

For sure. Not against that as long as he doesn't think he is worth big dough.

I remember last year him saying he was going to be the best Corner in the league before the season.

Kind of got his eyes opened a bit i would think.

Teams went after him, but he did not give up a lot of TD's which is what really matters in the end.

(06-14-2016, 02:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. Not against that as long as he doesn't think he is worth big dough.

I remember last year him saying he was going to be the best Corner in the league before the season.

Kind of got his eyes opened a bit i would think.

Teams went after him, but he did not give up a lot of TD's which is what really matters in the end.

Wish there was a place we could find out who gave up how many TDs and such. The only one I know, because they talked about it during broadcasts on TV, was Adam Jones who only gave up 1 TD last year (against Hopkins on a circus catch). So I would be curious to see who the other 17 passing TDs were attributed to.

(06-14-2016, 02:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep and i am predicting that if Dre doesn't play better and Dennard is healthy Dennard will be starting opposite
of Adam come midseason. This isn't a bad thing either necessarily cause we would start to see what we have from
Dennard and what little i have seen i like.

As much as i have seen Kirkpatrick get beat it has not been for a lot of TD's. He has been a bend but not break CB.

So i think even if he keeps up his poor play it shouldn't cost us games.

Hopefully WJIII gets some PT (even though it's not Marvin's MO to play a rookie) and Adam can strictly return punts because dude is a hell of a corner, but, if we have other corners who can at least get the job done, his impact in the return game is great enough to make up for him not playing defense.

Or maybe we should only play Adam when the offense gets across mid-field, so he more than likely wouldn't need to return anyways, so it wouldn't matter if he got tired playing D, plus a shorter field means tighter quarters and better odds of interceptions (just my opinion).

(06-14-2016, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wish there was a place we could find out who gave up how many TDs and such. The only one I know, because they talked about it during broadcasts on TV, was Adam Jones who only gave up 1 TD last year (against Hopkins on a circus catch). So I would be curious to see who the other 17 passing TDs were attributed to.

Leon gave up a TD to Brown in our first game against Pittsburgh. 16 TDs left to figure out.

(06-14-2016, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wish there was a place we could find out who gave up how many TDs and such. The only one I know, because they talked about it during broadcasts on TV, was Adam Jones who only gave up 1 TD last year (against Hopkins on a circus catch). So I would be curious to see who the other 17 passing TDs were attributed to.

I heard the same thing about Adam, pretty impressive to only give up that 2 TD catch that was just a great play by Hopkins.

Nothing was wrong with that coverage.

(06-14-2016, 04:26 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Leon gave up a TD to Brown in our first game against Pittsburgh. 16 TDs left to figure out.

The bad one i remember was against the Seahawks and it was a miscommunication on their first TD right after Eifert's.

Baldwin was wide open. Don't know if that was on Kirkpatrick or Iloka.

(06-14-2016, 04:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hopefully WJIII gets some PT (even though it's not Marvin's MO to play a rookie) and Adam can strictly return punts because dude is a hell of a corner, but, if we have other corners who can at least get the job done, his impact in the return game is great enough to make up for him not playing defense.

Or maybe we should only play Adam when the offense gets across mid-field, so he more than likely wouldn't need to return anyways, so it wouldn't matter if he got tired playing D, plus a shorter field means tighter quarters and better odds of interceptions (just my opinion).

Sure would be nice to have the insurance to be able to get Adam some more chances in the return game that is true.

Most chances he got last year were early when the Defense got a 3 and out so he was fresh.

(06-14-2016, 04:26 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Leon gave up a TD to Brown in our first game against Pittsburgh. 16 TDs left to figure out.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092707/2015/REG3/bengals@ravens/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000541648&tab=recap

First Smith TD on Reggie, Second one on Dre: Down to 14.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092002/2015/REG2/chargers@bengals/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000534914&tab=recap

First one Dre and George get caught in a switch (.5 each)

Second one Dre beat deep.

Down to 12

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015101804/2015/REG6/bengals@bills/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000560145&tab=recap

Dre and Reggie pointing at each other (.5) each

11 more

(06-14-2016, 12:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, we disagree then Essex.

I don't think for one moment that the coaches would of started Dennard over Kirkpatrick even if Dennard was
playing better. They had to get Dre on the field to see what he had as him being the older first round pick CB.

Just like this year if Dre plays bad, Dennard would be the first man up to take his job before WJ3. Even if WJ3
is playing a bit better. We won't start a rookie this year if we are trying to integrate Dennard into a starter.

You must not think the coaches want to win if you don't think they are playing the best players. 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015110500/2015/REG9/browns@bengals/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000578240&tab=recap

Burfict on the RB (10 more)

(06-14-2016, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015110500/2015/REG9/browns@bengals/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000578240&tab=recap

Burfict on the RB (10 more)

One name seems to be popping up more than once already.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015112209/2015/REG11/bengals@cardinals/watch#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000587049&tab=recap

1st on Williams

2nd George (.5) Reggie (.5)

3rd Dennard

4th Burfict (6 left)

(06-14-2016, 05:12 PM)jason Wrote: One name seems to be popping up more than once already.

I just see a lot of Dreads getting beat.