(06-28-2015, 05:17 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Its Dalton. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with Marvin Lewis. If you think back to 2005, we win that game if Palmer doesn't get hurt. I just honestly think if your team doesn't have confidence that the qb is gonna perform well in big moments it just deflates you. Our offense just hasn't moved the ball at all in the playoffs. Dalton has been an absolute negative in the playoffs. Theres really no point in arguing it....the numbers don't lie. Dalton has been atrocious in the playoffs. Your defense can only keep the opposing teams offense off the board for so long when your going 3 and out more so than not. I honestly think that's why they drafted OL with their first 2 picks. This is now a running team. We will run to setup the pass. If someone goes down, well, were still gonna be a running team cuz we have 2 really good backups that will step in with no problem. Were gonna use a lot of jumbo packages I would think. I do believe Dalton can succeed in a run first offense, as long as we are a dominant run team.

Anyways, regardless of what I said above, I do feel like if McCarron shows out in the preseason he should get a shot at some point in time with the 1s or during the regular season. Andy Dalton has just had way too much talent around him to be as inconsistent as he is. If McCarron earns it, give him a shot. If you go and watch McCarrons college film, its hard not to like.

Cause Palmer lit it up in 09 right?

Also Dalton has played better in systems that allowed him to chuck the ball plenty.

They had a run first offense last year and took the ball out of his hands last year.
How did that work out for him.

I love the fact that a guy who set franchise records gets the "He should never throw the ball".

P.S if Bernard does not fumble the ball on the 5 yard line against the Chargers the Bengals beat the Chargers.
The whole team is mentally soft and unprepared and that starts with coaching.

(06-27-2015, 11:37 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I was with you up to this point.  If it actually turned out that McCarron were to be a HOF QB, then why on earth wouldn't you want this world-beater of a career to get started just as soon as possible?  To spare Andy's feelings?  To delay the gratification of us getting a SB win?  Cripes, if AJ has that sort of talent, then I sure as hell hope Dalton is benched and the AJ MacCarron era begins pronto.

If AJ beats AD out of a job that is great. If AJ is handed the job because our QB struggled, then it may great for the future (I am not saying AJ is a HOF QB) but as a season ticket holder it is no fun spending a lot of money on 2 tickets and not wanting to go to the games in December because we have no shot at the playoffs.

It is more likely if AJ takes over in 2015 it is because AD is hurt or failed miserably and we are out of contention by December. I have been there and done that and it sucked for years.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

(06-28-2015, 05:17 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Its Dalton. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with Marvin Lewis. If you think back to 2005, we win that game if Palmer doesn't get hurt. I just honestly think if your team doesn't have confidence that the qb is gonna perform well in big moments it just deflates you. Our offense just hasn't moved the ball at all in the playoffs. Dalton has been an absolute negative in the playoffs. Theres really no point in arguing it....the numbers don't lie. Dalton has been atrocious in the playoffs. Your defense can only keep the opposing teams offense off the board for so long when your going 3 and out more so than not. I honestly think that's why they drafted OL with their first 2 picks. This is now a running team. We will run to setup the pass. If someone goes down, well, were still gonna be a running team cuz we have 2 really good backups that will step in with no problem. Were gonna use a lot of jumbo packages I would think. I do believe Dalton can succeed in a run first offense, as long as we are a dominant run team.

Well put man.  While we can all agree that Marvin isn't a good coach, it doesn't excuse Dalton's inferior play. I don't get why people have such a tough time with this notion. 

I also agree, if Palmer stayed in that game in 05 we may never be talking about not winning a playoff game in 25 years. That first bomb for 66 yards was a beauty.

(06-28-2015, 07:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If AJ beats AD out of a job that is great. If AJ is handed the job because our QB struggled, then it may great for the future (I am not saying AJ is a HOF QB) but as a season ticket holder it is no fun spending a lot of money on 2 tickets and not wanting to go to the games in December because we have no shot at the playoffs.

It is more likely if AJ takes over in 2015 it is because AD is hurt or failed miserably and we are out of contention by December. I have been there and done that and it sucked for years.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

There was nothing to clarify.

Your premise was that even if AJ were a HOF QB, you still wouldn't want him getting the job by Andy getting yanked. So, we would know that he's that calibur of a player, and you still wouldnlt want Andy being benched to make way for him. And that sentiment is downright silly.

However, if you want to chage what you said and now say that you HOPE Andy doesn't struggle and doesn't have to be replaced (and, for the record, I too hope he doesn't struggle), then ok. But, this STH has no probelm with anyone who's playing subpar getting benched. Ever. The Red Rifle included. If Mike and Marvin make that happen so we can prepare for the future, I'll have no problem paying to watch our future play in December while Andy rides the pine. At this point what's one more season without a playoff win, anyway.

(06-28-2015, 06:57 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Cause Palmer lit it up in 09 right?

Also Dalton has played better in systems that allowed him to chuck the ball plenty.

They had a run first offense last year and took the ball out of his hands last year.
How did that work out for him.

I love the fact that a guy who set franchise records gets the "He should never throw the ball".

P.S if Bernard does not fumble the ball on the 5 yard line against the Chargers the Bengals beat the Chargers.
The whole team is mentally soft and unprepared and that starts with coaching.

Are you really tryin to compare the 09 team to the 14 team? Cmon man. JP Foschi and Dan Coats were our TEs. The talent on that 09 offense was atrocious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Cincinnati_Bengals_season#Post_season_results
^^^^Check here to see comparing the 09 offense to any of Andy Daltons offenses is ridiculous^^^^

Anyways since you aren't realistic and most likely will defend Dalton to the death....Ill post some stats for you. Here are some stats through his 4 playoffs games...
6 INTS
1 TD
Passer Rating For Each Playoff Game 51.4, 44.7, 67.0, 63.4
Only cracked 60% in completion percentage in one game. The game he threw 3 ints and 0 tds.
But youre right, he has nothing to do with our playoff losses. Prob not ever a factor. LMAO
I don't understand how the man who has the ball in his hand for every offensive snap somehow gets no blame for the losses. Ill just say this, it doesn't matter who you are, if youre throwing 6 picks to only 1 td in your 4 playoff appearances...YOU ARE A CHOKE ARTIST!!

I've posted the playoff stats for our defense many times. They're atrocious. No pressure, can't stop the run, can't stop the pass. Folks with QB tunnel vision blame that on the QB too. So I've posted where other teams haven't collapsed due to turnovers. I've also pointed out that Dalton only had 1 turnover in the Texans 2.0 and Colts games.

Despite the abundance of facts pointing to a coaching problem, people will believe what they want. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Palmer had an abysmal game vs the Jets, and people excuse it by pointing out that he didn't have a ton of weapons. The point is flying over your head. Palmer had a passer rating in the 80's in 2009. Why did he suddenly have a rating in the 50's in the playoffs? The answer is that he choked. Just like he (and everyone else) has in prime time and playoff situations for Marvin Lewis.

It's undeniable really. We've been talking about this bright lights problem long before Dalton got here. People who hate Dalton just don't want to admit that because they hate the QB more than the coach. Try taking the blinders off and look at things objectively.

(06-28-2015, 11:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've posted the playoff stats for our defense many times. They're atrocious. No pressure, can't stop the run, can't stop the pass. Folks with QB tunnel vision blame that on the QB too. So I've posted where other teams haven't collapsed due to turnovers. I've also pointed out that Dalton only had 1 turnover in the Texans 2.0 and Colts games.

Despite the abundance of facts pointing to a coaching problem, people will believe what they want. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink(you can if you put salt in its mouth).

Palmer had an abysmal game vs the Jets, and people excuse it by pointing out that he didn't have a ton of weapons. The point is flying over your head. Palmer had a passer rating in the 80's in 2009. Why did he suddenly have a rating in the 50's in the playoffs? The answer is that he choked. Just like he (and everyone else) has in prime time and playoff situations for Marvin Lewis.

It's undeniable really. We've been talking about this bright lights problem long before Dalton got here. People who hate Dalton just don't want to admit that because they hate the QB more than the coach. Try taking the blinders off and look at things objectively.

fixed it ferya, but yeah to deny the other glaring facts is simply crazy.

(06-28-2015, 10:49 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Are you really tryin to compare the 09 team to the 14 team? Cmon man. JP Foschi and Dan Coats were our TEs. The talent on that 09 offense was atrocious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Cincinnati_Bengals_season#Post_season_results
^^^^Check here to see comparing the 09 offense to any of Andy Daltons offenses is ridiculous^^^^

Anyways since you aren't realistic and most likely will defend Dalton to the death....Ill post some stats for you. Here are some stats through his 4 playoffs games...
6 INTS
1 TD
Passer Rating For Each Playoff Game 51.4, 44.7, 67.0, 63.4
Only cracked 60% in completion percentage in one game. The game he threw 3 ints and 0 tds.
But youre right, he has nothing to do with our playoff losses. Prob not ever a factor. LMAO
I don't understand how the man who has the ball in his hand for every offensive snap somehow gets no blame for the losses. Ill just say this, it doesn't matter who you are, if youre throwing 6 picks to only 1 td in your 4 playoff appearances...YOU ARE A CHOKE ARTIST!!

It's actually 1 TD 7 INTs.  Bottom line regardless of how abysmal his stats are the dalton lovers have the perfect excuse. It's all Marvin's fault. Dalton has it so good right now because if things go bad it's on Marvin, and if things happen to go good well then he's an awesome QB. Problem is things haven't been going good for a while now so the Marvin Excuse has been strong on these forums by the guys who are running out of excuses.

These same people have been high on Dalton for years and even used to think he was as good as Andrew Luck. I was laughing then and I'm laughing now. Some people just can't deal in reality.

(06-28-2015, 10:49 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Are you really tryin to compare the 09 team to the 14 team? Cmon man. JP Foschi and Dan Coats were our TEs. The talent on that 09 offense was atrocious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Cincinnati_Bengals_season#Post_season_results
^^^^Check here to see comparing the 09 offense to any of Andy Daltons offenses is ridiculous^^^^

Anyways since you aren't realistic and most likely will defend Dalton to the death....Ill post some stats for you. Here are some stats through his 4 playoffs games...
6 INTS
1 TD
Passer Rating For Each Playoff Game 51.4, 44.7, 67.0, 63.4
Only cracked 60% in completion percentage in one game. The game he threw 3 ints and 0 tds.
But youre right, he has nothing to do with our playoff losses. Prob not ever a factor. LMAO
I don't understand how the man who has the ball in his hand for every offensive snap somehow gets no blame for the losses. Ill just say this, it doesn't matter who you are, if youre throwing 6 picks to only 1 td in your 4 playoff appearances...YOU ARE A CHOKE ARTIST!!

*Sigh*

Chad Johnson> Gregg Little/Hewett/Sanu and Kevin Brock.
I mean in 2014 your best receiving option was the 4th string RB.

I mean if you wanna be honest if it wasn't for Ced Benson putting the team on his back the Palmer 09 game would have been even worse.

None of our talented RBs were able to do that in INDY



Yes Dalton has to play better but so does everyone else.
I love when people try to act that I'm excusing Dalton's play cause I'm not.
Just pointing out other factors involved with our playoff futility.
Poor D play/Fumbles/Injuries/Dropped passes have all contributed to the losses as much as poor QB play.

Poor play overall by a talented team screams coaching issues to most logical people.

With as bad as 2014 was for Dalton they still came a AJ Green fumble away from possibly winning the division.
But still a good amount of fans act like we are a sub 500% team and choose to spew the vitirol at one guy when its should be HEAPED ON EVERYONE.

Think Dalton will retain job.

But if McCarron proves to be the better player in next few months ?

He should get the job. This is professional football and the best players need to play.

(06-29-2015, 01:40 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: I love when people try to act that I'm excusing Dalton's play cause I'm not.
Just pointing out other factors involved with our playoff futility.

Some people have tunnel vision.  All they can see when they watch a game is the QB.

But it gets funny when you make a post clearly stating that Dalton played poorly and then you get replies like.  .  

"But youre right, he has nothing to do with our playoff losses. Prob not ever a factor. LMAO"

(06-28-2015, 11:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've posted the playoff stats for our defense many times. They're atrocious. No pressure, can't stop the run, can't stop the pass. Folks with QB tunnel vision blame that on the QB too. So I've posted where other teams haven't collapsed due to turnovers. I've also pointed out that Dalton only had 1 turnover in the Texans 2.0 and Colts games.

Despite the abundance of facts pointing to a coaching problem, people will believe what they want. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Palmer had an abysmal game vs the Jets, and people excuse it by pointing out that he didn't have a ton of weapons. The point is flying over your head. Palmer had a passer rating in the 80's in 2009. Why did he suddenly have a rating in the 50's in the playoffs? The answer is that he choked. Just like he (and everyone else) has in prime time and playoff situations for Marvin Lewis.

It's undeniable really. We've been talking about this bright lights problem long before Dalton got here. People who hate Dalton just don't want to admit that because they hate the QB more than the coach. Try taking the blinders off and look at things objectively.

Couldn't agree more Shake !

And I don't know what it's going to take for people to understand this either ? There's no doubt Dalton has choked, spit the bit, folded, sucked, or however you want to put it in the playoffs. (And most Big Games)

But so has nearly everyone else on the team nearly every - Big Game, Must Win, Playoffs we've been in.

And it's not just the playoffs as has been stated numerous times and it's a fact ! By and large Marvin Lewis lead teams choke any time the light are on, big games, must wins, etc. Look at his record against the Steelers !

We fail to show up 90% of the time when we really need to ! And like you say this was a recurring theme way before Andy Dalton came to town.

I think it was McC who posted words to the effect of "you'd think the players would get tired of being embarrassed on the national stage and rise above Lewis but for whatever reasons they can't"

Make whatever excuses you want but the only constant in this quandary is - Marvin Lewis

(06-29-2015, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Some people have tunnel vision.  All they can see when they watch a game is the QB.

But it gets funny when you make a post clearly stating that Dalton played poorly and then you get replies like.  .  

"But youre right, he has nothing to do with our playoff losses. Prob not ever a factor. LMAO"

True, but the fact that Dalton managed to steal the crap-spotlight from our crappy defensive and coaching performances in the post-season is really saying something even when you take the whole "QB magnification" bias into effect.

Cedric Benson is the only Bengal to truly show up out of all 6 of Marvin's losses.

Sad.
1 guy.

(06-29-2015, 02:32 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Cedric Benson is the only Bengal to truly show up out of all 6 of Marvin's losses.

Sad.
1 guy.

Didn't MLJ have a good game against the Chargers?

(06-29-2015, 02:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but the fact that Dalton managed to steal the crap-spotlight from our crappy defensive and coaching performances in the post-season is really saying something 

All it says it that some fans can't look beyond the QB.

That is their problem.  They need to learn more about football.

(06-29-2015, 02:41 PM)McC Wrote: Didn't MLJ have a good game against the Chargers?

So 2 guys in 6 games. Is that any less pathetic really? 

Out of 22 starters and multiple ST players multiplied by 6 games, we should be able to come up with dozens of good performers, even in losses.

(06-29-2015, 02:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So 2 guys in 6 games. Is that any less pathetic really? 

Out of 22 starters and multiple ST players multiplied by 6 games, we should be able to come up with dozens of good performers, even in losses.

Two is pathetic.  But it's only half as pathetic as one.

(06-29-2015, 03:19 PM)McC Wrote: Two is  pathetic.  But it's only half as pathetic as one.

(06-29-2015, 02:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So 2 guys in 6 games. Is that any less pathetic really? 

Out of 22 starters and multiple ST players multiplied by 6 games, we should be able to come up with dozens of good performers, even in losses.

Leon Hall had the pick 6. 

But yeah, it's a short list. 

All Robert Geathers' fault tbh. 
He's the only Bengal there for all of them.