Time to rank Big Los and MJ:
QB: 9-12 (no votes below 16th)
RB: 6-10 (19% had them top 5 and 25% had them average)
WR: 11-15 (No votes for top 5 or below 20)
TE: 6-12 (only 2 votes below 12th)
OT: 7-13 (90% of the votes had them in the top 13)
OG: 6-10 (only 4 votes below top 10)
C: skipped (but I’m sure it would not have been very high)

As always here’s the competition:

ARZ- Cameron Jones, Cailas Campbell
ATL- Vic Beasley, Derrick Shelby
BAL- Elvis Dumervil, Za’Darius Smith
BUF- Shaq Lawson, Jerry Hughes
CAR- Charles Johnson, Kony Ealy
CHI- Pernell McPhee, Lamarr Houston
CLV- Desmond Bryant, Paul Kruger
DAL- Demarcus Lawrence, Randy Gregory
DEN- Demarcus Ware, Derrick Wolfe
DET-Devin Taylor, Ziggy Ansah
GBP- Julius Peppers, Datone Jones
HOU- Jadaveon Clowney, Whitney Mercilus
IND- Robert Mathis, Trent Cole
JAX- Dante Fowler, Jared Odrick
KCC- Allen Bailey, Tamba Hali
LAR- William Hayes, Robert Quinn
MIA- Cameron Wake, Mario Williams
MIN- Everett Griffin, Brian Robinson
NEP- Rob Ninkovich, Jabaal Sheard
NOS- Bobby Richardson, Camron Jordan
NYG- Jason Pierre-Paul, Olivier Vernon
NYJ- Leonard Williams, Lorenzo Mauldin
OAK- Khalil Mack, Jihad Ward
PHI- Connor Baldwin, Brandon Graham
PIT- Cameron Heyward, Bud Dupree
SDC- Corey Liuget, Joey Bosa
SEA- Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril
SFF- Deforest Buckner, Aaron Lynch
TBB- William Gholston, Robert Ayers
TEN- Derrick Morgan, Brian Orakpo
WAS- Ryan Kerrigan, Kendall Reyes

I have taken some liberties with the 3-4 teams; however, I will take this into account when doing the LBs

I went top 5. They are probably in that 5-7 range as a unit.

I will say that Carlos is arguably the best complete DE in the game and looking at the list I could make an arguement that he an MJ are #1. But something struck me as I was making the list, is our lack of depth at Edge rusher. I mean I always knew this; however, seeing the name made it clear.

Here's a list of some that aren't "starters":

Kareem Martin
Markus Golden
Courtney Upshaw
Adrian Claybon
Mario Addison
Leonard Floyd
Emmanual Ogbah
Armonty Bryant
Barkevious Mingo
Shane Ray
Wallace Gilberry
Nick Perry
Trent Cole
Ryan Davis
Dee Ford
Quinton Coples
Andre Branch
Danielle Hunter
Chris Long
Shaquile Calhoun
Damontre Moore
Vinny Curry
Jarvis Jones
Jerimiah Attaochu
Eli Harold
Frank Clark
Chris Clemons
Jacquies Smith
Noah Spence
Kevin Dodd
Preston Smith

I'd take any of those over Hunt or Clarke. Hell, I'd arguably take a few over MJ.

Hated to, but went 6-10.

Carlos is a top 5. Mj is also pretty high. And maybe it's not fair to knock those two for it, but I've got to look at all the DEs and not just the starters... and we're really thin after the front two spots. I'm not comfortable with Hunt being on the field for more than a down. If he has to come in for a significant amount of time, we're going to have a rough time pressuring the pass.

Went 6-10.

Think they're the 8th best tandem on that list.

I thought we were just talking Johnson and Dunlap. I'd go way lower if we are taking rotational guys into account.

This is a tough one. I think we are just beginning to see the best of Dunlap and MJ is a very good player in his own right. After those two, this team does not have much at all. The thought of Hunt actually seeing significant playing time, either through injury or rotation, should scare anyone. Maybe Clarke takes a step forward this year?

Dunlap is arguably the best all-around 4-3 DE in the game (and IS the best 4-3 LDE), while MJ is the best run stopping 4-3 RDE in the game and could possibly be the best 4-3 DE in the run game outright.

(06-24-2016, 05:02 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Dunlap is arguably the best all-around 4-3 DE in the game (and IS the best 4-3 LDE), while MJ is the best run stopping 4-3 RDE in the game and could possibly be the best 4-3 DE in the run game outright.

i agree with this. I don't know what 5-9 tandems they have ahead of them. Giving other teams the benefit of the doubt, I could see Arizona, Seattle, Miami, ahead of us and that's about it.  

They're top 5

Now if you include the backups we'd fall off the scale hard. Hunt is a project they needed to end last season and if he makes this squad - oh boy !

I'm trying to hold out hope that Clarke still has a chance but I have little to no faith in Hunt.

(06-24-2016, 05:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: i agree with this. I don't know what 5-9 tandems they have ahead of them. Giving other teams the benefit of the doubt, I could see Arizona, Seattle, Miami, ahead of us and that's about it.  

Detroit has a very underrated talent in both Ansah and Taylor.

Ansah had 25 sacks the past two years. 14.5 last year, and Taylor had 7. Taylor has been improving.

Plus Ansah is a turnover machine. 9 forced fumbles the past 3 years with even limited playing time. Dunlap has had 8 in that time span.


Then throw in Oakland. They have Mack and my word is he amazing. I like Ward, but he's a rookie. He's going to be tough to decide, but Mack is arguably the best pass rusher in the league.

Also, throw in Houston. Mercilus is probably the most underrated DE (granted a 3-4 OLB or whatever). And Clowney, although he was hyped to be a pass rusher, is actually amazing against the run. But not many people notice that.

It's hard to grade our DEs because they're also going up against OLBs that specialize in pass rushing and even pass coverage.

As others have said, Carlos is elite right now. Hopefully MJ can bounce back because while he didn't seem to be bad last season, something seemed a little off. Perhaps the guy has hit a point in his career when he can no longer play an absurdly high percentage of snaps without having a dropoff in quality of play.

(06-24-2016, 12:22 PM)jason Wrote: I went top 5. They are probably in that 5-7 range as a unit.

I had them in that 5-7-ish range as well. Probably settles closer to 7 than 5, so I went the 6-10. I leaned towards the lower end mostly because Atkins makes people around him better.

Definately among the best. The starters are anyway. After that we need some depth back there.

I thought Dunlap played great last year and could of got 20 sacks. Still got 13.5 and he is more disruptive than
this implies even. MJ i thought had a very good year considering he was banged up. I am looking for him to have
a much better one this year and get more sacks and more pass deflections.

6-10 from my perspective due to the lack of pass rush, particularly late in games.  Dunlap is the only threat from the edge. Hoping MJ has a better year this year.

And lack of depth at this point drops them out of the top 5

While I think Carlos is a top 5-7 DE, I also think MJ is a top 25, but the depth is really bad behind them and since MJ isn't a pass rush type of DE I rated them as a unit out of the top 10.

Kind of tough to just rate the DE's without the tackles and nose tackles.. Put Geno and perhaps Billings in the mix and I think we have a winner.. When Geno was banged up the DEs fell off considerably..

God forbid Dunlap and/or Johnson goes down for an extended period of time.