(07-01-2016, 07:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Me? No.  My wife used to be a teacher. 

But, what makes everyone think that our DT squad is somehow elite?  Sure, Geno Atkins is a Superstar, arguably a top 3 in the league at his position.  What has Peko done to deserve any serious mention on anyone's who's who list of DTs in the NFL?  Behind them we have a raw rookie, who has never even seen training camp in Billings, a passed around journeyman who's never really done anything outstanding in Simms, and a guy that to me looks like he may have an ounce or two of NFL potential in Hardison.

Who are the10  (minimum) you put ahead of Geno and Peko?

Just one final comment, and I am not trying to be argumentative about this. Peko is a totally great human being, and a tremendous addition to the entire greater Cincinnati area. He helps people, he's a great teammate and really, a pretty damn good football player. His wife is also a great asset to the team and community.

OK. I just think that makes some of us, including me, overvalue him just a little bit as a player. I think he is a good, strong player. After all, being an average player in the NFL is pretty damn awesome, and average players are capable of great plays.

I said top ten because I think Geno is a completely rare talent, and his partner is a good strong journeyman in the NFL. That's a good thing. If Billings can add what many of us think he can, then they enter the elite category. I take nothing away from Peko, who is one great player and individual.

(07-01-2016, 07:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Me? No.  My wife used to be a teacher. 

But, what makes everyone think that our DT squad is somehow elite?  Sure, Geno Atkins is a Superstar, arguably a top 3 in the league at his position.  What has Peko done to deserve any serious mention on anyone's who's who list of DTs in the NFL?  Behind them we have a raw rookie, who has never even seen training camp in Billings, a passed around journeyman who's never really done anything outstanding in Simms, and a guy that to me looks like he may have an ounce or two of NFL potential in Hardison.

Peko had 5 Sacks last season and you are only grade the starters.

Geno is a rare talent, Peko does what is asked of him, I see a top 5 unit. I feel good about Sims, Billings, Williams, and Thompson too.

6-10.

(07-01-2016, 07:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Me? No.  My wife used to be a teacher. 

But, what makes everyone think that our DT squad is somehow elite?  Sure, Geno Atkins is a Superstar, arguably a top 3 in the league at his position.  What has Peko done to deserve any serious mention on anyone's who's who list of DTs in the NFL?  Behind them we have a raw rookie, who has never even seen training camp in Billings, a passed around journeyman who's never really done anything outstanding in Simms, and a guy that to me looks like he may have an ounce or two of NFL potential in Hardison.

Geno alone makes it elite IMO.

Peko actually played pretty dang decent last year which is why i put us in the top 5. The year before we were not
very good cause Geno was coming off injury and Peko was just okay as he usually is. I think with the addition of
Billings and even a guy you do not mention in DeShawn Williams we could be great at the DT spot for once.

But this is all off of potential so it is still up in the air.

The thing about Billings is he can already stop the run better than Peko i am sure. He doesn't just take up space,
he destroys interior O-lineman similar to Geno especially in the run game. With Billings strength and learning behind
a great pass rusher like Atkins this could be a very tough obstacle for Offenses to deal with in the future.

I am doubting Sims makes the team honestly with young talents in Billings and DeShawn chomping at the bit.

(07-03-2016, 04:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Geno alone makes it elite IMO.

Peko actually played pretty dang decent last year which is why i put us in the top 5. The year before we were not
very good cause Geno was coming off injury and Peko was just okay as he usually is. I think with the addition of
Billings and even a guy you do not mention in DeShawn Williams we could be great at the DT spot for once.

But this is all off of potential so it is still up in the air.

The thing about Billings is he can already stop the run better than Peko i am sure. He doesn't just take up space,
he destroys interior O-lineman similar to Geno especially in the run game. With Billings strength and learning behind
a great pass rusher like Atkins this could be a very tough obstacle for Offenses to deal with in the future.

I am doubting Sims makes the team honestly with young talents in Billings and DeShawn chomping at the bit.

See, Peko had what as known as a "career year" for himself, one which he played above the level typically expected of him.  Even with those 5 sacks, he still gets driven off the ball in short yardage situations.  If you ask me, him picking up 5 sacks was more a product of the overall quality of the defensive unit, rather than by virtue of his own personal awesomeness.  As far as Billings goes, you can't automatically give a guy credit as being better than the incumbent, before we even see him in padded practices.  The history of the NFL is littered with guys that were going to be the next greatest this, or the next best that..

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Andrew Billings and Domata Peko fan.  They are Bengals, I want them to be the very best that they can possibly be.  However, from a career point of view, Peko is average.  Average, with a couple of red flags for being driven off the ball in short yardage situations.

(07-03-2016, 04:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: See, Peko had what as known as a "career year" for himself, one which he played above the level typically expected of him.  Even with those 5 sacks, he still gets driven off the ball in short yardage situations.  If you ask me, him picking up 5 sacks was more a product of the overall quality of the defensive unit, rather than by virtue of his own personal awesomeness.  As far as Billings goes, you can't automatically give a guy credit as being better than the incumbent, before we even see him in padded practices.  The history of the NFL is littered with guys that were going to be the next greatest this, or the next best that..

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Andrew Billings and Domata Peko fan.  They are Bengals, I want them to be the very best that they can possibly be.  However, from a career point of view, Peko is average.  Average, with a couple of red flags for being driven off the ball in short yardage situations.

With all you say here Sunset i don't know how you could not expect Billings to automatically be better than a DT
that gets driven off the ball in short yardage situations. With Billings strength i don't see this happening. I am still
blown away that we got my favorite DT in the draft in the 4th round.

Billings reminds me of Geno the way he can throw interior OL around like rag dolls.

I know Billings is more of a NT type but he can penetrate gaps too, it is not like he is a one trick pony like Peko
cause i agree that Peko's sacks were more of a product of who was around him last year.

(07-03-2016, 04:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With all you say here Sunset i don't know how you could not expect Billings to automatically be better than a DT
that gets driven off the ball in short yardage situations. With Billings strength i don't see this happening. I am still
blown away that we got my favorite DT in the draft in the 4th round.

Billings reminds me of Geno the way he can throw interior OL around like rag dolls.

I know Billings is more of a NT type but he can penetrate gaps too, it is not like he is a one trick pony like Peko
cause i agree that Peko's sacks were more of a product of who was around him last year.

Nate, as much as I am stoked about what Billings could be over the course of his career, let's not forget that he isn't a perfect prospect.  He still has some technique issues to work out in his game.

If you remember, his scouting report stated that he tended to rely too much on forward lean, was prone to overextending and ending up on the ground.  He needs work on backfield awareness, patience, and has limited lateral range.  When you combine that with the fact that the Bengals don't generally give rookies a whole lot of downs, to begin with, I think that it will be later in the season before Billings can be expected to make any sort of significant contribution.

Edit: I'm not trying to be a ballbuster, just trying to keep things in the realm of realism. Geno Atkins is a bonafide Superstar, after that we have average and unknown. Hard for me to rate that as an "Elite" unit.

(07-03-2016, 05:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Nate, as much as I am stoked about what Billings could be over the course of his career, let's not forget that he isn't a perfect prospect.  He still has some technique issues to work out in his game.

If you remember, his scouting report stated that he tended to rely too much on forward lean, was prone to overextending and ending up on the ground.  He needs work on backfield awareness, patience, and has limited lateral range.  When you combine that with the fact that the Bengals don't generally give rookies a whole lot of downs, to begin with, I think that it will be later in the season before Billings can be expected to make any sort of significant contribution.

Edit:  I'm not trying to be a ballbuster, just trying to keep things in the realm of realism.  Geno Atkins is a bonafide Superstar, after that we have average and unknown.  Hard for me to rate that as an "Elite" unit.

Yeah, i get a lot of those critiques on Billings to a point except the limited lateral range. Dude chases down fast
RB's going to the edge. That was to me one of the most impressive things i saw about the man at Baylor. He is
extremely athletic for a DT. People also said he was too short, Atkins is shorter than Billings.

I truly believe that by midseason Billings will show too much in limited snaps to keep on the bench.

I believe he will start after 8 games, that is how good i think he could be as a rookie.

If given the chance he is already better than Peko in every aspect IMHO.

I understand why you don't rate the unit elite at this point. I am presuming a lot here.

I went with top 5 here. Can people name 5 interior DLs that are better than ours?

I went 6-10 range. Atkins is in the elite category, Peko in the slightly above average category. Averaged the two for the 6-10 range.

If Billings plays to potential then this could be a top 5 interior, but we'll need to wait and see how it plays out.

(07-05-2016, 09:00 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I went 6-10 range. Atkins is in the elite category, Peko in the slightly above average category. Averaged the two for the 6-10 range.

If Billings plays to potential then this could be a top 5 interior, but we'll need to wait and see how it plays out.

And - pie in the sky - Hunt turns the corner and becomes the guy we thought we drafted we'll have a very scary defense.