(08-19-2016, 01:21 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: That was my favorite thing about the night.

Hill seems to have matured... but its only one TD in an early preseason game... I think he will still pull out the dance moves in real games.

Still, I think he is rolling with the punches so far. He looks great!

That playoff fumble sucked but if it causes a new attitude and a great year this year, then that's the silver lining.

(08-20-2016, 07:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Chad's antics left such a stank on this franchise that they haven't won a playoff game since he left!  I guess the Patriots were just too powerful to let his presence derail their SB trip in 2011, though.

1. His last season with the Bengals, partnering with the other showboat receiver, gave the Bengals the second worse record in franchise history!

2. He never got the opportunity to 'show-off' at New England, not that Bill would have tolerated it anyway.

(08-20-2016, 09:48 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: 1. His last season with the Bengals, partnering with the other showboat receiver, gave the Bengals the second worse record in franchise history!

2. He never got the opportunity to 'show-off' at New England, not that Bill would have tolerated it anyway.

1.  I've never heard anyone who isn't a brain-dead Steelers fan give such a trite and misguidedly simple explanation for a bad Bengals season.  

2.  I wasn't aware a player had to be good and/or show off to be a franchise-ruining malcontent.  Also, if this is the case then bravo for the Patriots not allowing Chad to turn them into a 4-12 mess like he did the Bengals...except those years Chad was on the team and we wren't 4-12.  Ehh, well let's ignore those.

(08-20-2016, 08:41 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Have not had a losing season either and probably have one of the best regular season records in entire NFL. 

The Patriots did not play that "I am Ocho look at me" stuff either. 

Nor did they throw him the ball much either. Believe they said he was not smart enough to learn playbook. 

Look, I'm not saying 2010 wasn't a crap season...I'm just trying to understand what Chad has to do to ruin an entire team's season.  So in order to make a team 4-12 Chad has to be on the team, but he has to actually factor into the gameplan enough that he is a semi-productive member OF the team.  Does that make sense?  Like, just being in the locker room in New England wasn't enough to ruin their 2011 season like he ruined our 2010 one.  He has to be in the locker room but also be part of the game plan AND be in a situation where he is able to make an ass of himself at least how many times per season?

I guess I was deluded into thinking the 2010 team went 4-12 for a whole lot of reasons, but if that team stunk because 2 borderline HOF WRs are goofballs, so be it.  That's just easier to remember, anyways.

So the 5 seasons Chad was here and the team wasn't a god awful mess, what happened?  Was he a humble guy in 04, 05, 06, and 09 or was the rest of the team just good enough to overcome his attempts to sabotage things?  Also, did his ego make Palmer's elbow tear in 2008?  That was a pretty bad season there.

Believe the O-line carried us in 05 and Palmer was not hurt yet. If I remember right Cedric Benson had a great year in 09 to help cause. These are the Bengals only really good years during his tenure.

Whatever happened in 10 it was rectified by removing Carson, Ocho, and TO and replacing them studs with college players that have not looked back since. Even though they were predicted to suck by everybody. Even Bengals fans, see sig bet from mothership.

04 went 8-8 and did not make playoffs.

05 great year except they lost their last 3 games and it was reported Chad hit coach in halftime locker room of playoff game they were winning. Team came out flat afterwards.

06 Bengals were 8-8 did not make playoffs.

09 Benson ran really well, even rushed for 169 yards in playoff game but got no help. Also the tragedy of Zimmers wife dying was extra motivation I believe. Think Benson was one of the top NFL rushers that season even though he missed 3 games.

Anyway, not really wanting to debate Chad. Was only pointing out Hill's new ritual.

Maybe it is not even a new thing and he just does not get that excited over a preseason game TD and has bigger fish to fry. Time will tell.

But these are new Bengals and I no longer consider 8-8 seasons good. They are what they are, average.

What the early 2001 thru 2010 Bengals did was be a prelude to the changing of attitude and laid the foundations to the winning ways of now.

Will be forever grateful to them for bringing us out of the dark ages of the 90's.

To be fair do not lay all the blame on the players. Think the biggest problem was Marvin was handcuffed by MB and not allowed to run things as he seen fit until last contract extension.

Now what that would have meant for Chad I do not know except that it would have been different for him.

Actually think he would have made HOF if Marvin was allowed to coach him the way he wanted instead of management coddling him.

Will never know now and still think Chad had best foot control I have ever seen. But never a fan of his foolishness. The dances were ok but he just became addicted and had to always do more. Then it just became a distraction after awhile.

(08-21-2016, 02:01 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Whatever happened in 10 it was rectified by removing Carson, Ocho, and TO and replacing them studs with college players that have not looked back since. Even though they were predicted to suck by everybody. Even Bengals fans, see sig bet from mothership.

In 2010 Benson and the defense both took a step back, we stopped winning a bunch of games at the last minute, and our schedule was absolutely brutal.  Seriously, look at the end of season records of our 2010 opponents...it almost seems unfair.  The 2010 and 2011 teams were 5 wins apart but both of them only managed to win 2 games against teams with winning records.

We've been over this, so there is no sense going on a side rant about 2010.  Still, the whole "The Bengals lose because they are criminals/divas/dirty" simplicity just irks me more because I live in Steeler country and when I hear Bengals fans blame Chad for a 4-12 season it just reminds me of the simplistic bs I had to wade through for years.  Chad Johnson was simultaneously the best WR in the AFC north AND the one reason the Bengals would "never win anything."  It was frustrating, but god help me after 2010 Bengals fans finally came around to see what Steelers fans had known for almost a decade.  Ouch.

I recall a bitterly humorous story from the 2008 season.  I was at my gf's grandparents' house (they were all Steelers fans) and the Bengals/Browns game was ending and it was on while they were waiting for the Steelers game to come on.  I wasn't shy about being a Bengals fan and her grandfather said to me:

"You know what's wrong with the Bengals?"  And I matter of factly said they their defense is awful, their starting QB was injured and is now out for the year, their owner has been their GM for almost 20 years...that's when he interrupted me and said "Too many criminals."  Ah, silly me...here I was thinking about football when the answer was right in front of me.  Oh, and if you're curious the Bengals didn't win in 2015 because they are a filthy team, so I guess that answers that.

Again, I get off-topic but if Jeremy Hill not dancing makes us succeed where in 2015 we did not, then I hope Marvin Lewis brings John Lithgow into the locker room to set his ass straight!

The topper on Chad is if I mention he was a top receiver in the league during those "mediocre" seasons then it's "because it's a team sport and not about individual stats"... yet he gets flamed and blamed for other "team sport" seasons he was not.

Sheesh.

He showboated the whole time.

The guy who hurt this team more than anyone during Chad's tenure was Chris Henry.

Reality showed that he was unreliable/could not stay out of trouble but yet people still to this day glorify him.

They are all accountable for the average records. Ocho was one of them. Being the star even more so. Great players make those around them better.

Clearly stated that i thought it was because Marvin did not have full control of team.

But yes Chad was a diva. Enough said.

Plus he would had at least one good year elsewhere if he was as great as everybody claims. Chad had his day and now it is gone. Your Chad swag will be worthless the longer you hold on to it.

Still happy that Hill may be choosing opposite direction.

Oh and PS. The Bengals did win in 15. Just not a playoff game even if it was the closest they came since long before Chad.

I have no problem with celebrations unless they are over done. I must admit that it was hilarious when William Gay got flagged for celebrating his pick 6 off McCarran, only to drag it out even longer. It was uncomfortably long. He's probably still crawling at this moment.

I also liked it when Burfict left the field after what should have been a dagger interception in the playoffs. In hindsight, I wish he would have stayed in the locker room.

Will give you an example about him fading from memory of all but diehard football fans and Bengals fans.

Was already in late 30's when Chad arrived, but as a youngster in the 80's was a big fan of a similar receiver. Albeit he was much smaller at 5'9" and only weighing a 175lbs. He was known for his TD celebration the "Electric Glide".

How many even know who I am talking about ? Because his and Chads careers are similar. Lets look at the numbers.


......................................Ochocinco.................Ernest Givins
reception average per year.....63.8..............................63.4
average yards per season.......921...............................912
average TD's per season..........5.5...............................5.4

Wonder how much a Ernest Givins rookie card is worth these days ?

(08-21-2016, 08:27 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The topper on Chad is if I mention he was a top receiver in the league during those "mediocre" seasons then it's "because it's a team sport and not about individual stats"... yet he gets flamed and blamed for other "team sport" seasons he was not.

Sheesh.

He showboated the whole time.

It can be said that it is much easier for a WR to put up big #'s on a mediocre team.

If you are always losing and the defense plays prevent while your offense passes almost exclusively in 4th, the #'s get exaggerated. This is why mostly only winners are remembered in history. 

(08-21-2016, 10:42 AM)Go Cards Wrote: It can be said that it is much easier for a WR to put up big #'s on a mediocre team.

If you are always losing and the defense plays prevent the #'s get exaggerated. This is why mostly only winners are remembered in history. 

Yes because Chad was making easy catches on prevent defenses.

That might be more applicable for TJ.  The guy who made tons of catches but will be forgotten.

This might be more of a reason for someone to do more memorable TD celebrations... not less.

(08-21-2016, 08:33 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The guy who hurt this team more than anyone during Chad's tenure was Chris Henry.

Reality showed that he was unreliable/could not stay out of trouble but yet people still to this day glorify him.

Agree 100% and you will never hear me sticking up for him.

 Liked Chad a thousand times more. 

(08-21-2016, 10:48 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yes because Chad was making easy catches on prevent defenses.

That might be more applicable for TJ.  The guy who made tons of catches but will be forgotten.

This might be more of a reason for someone to do more memorable TD celebrations... not less.

Perhaps

(08-21-2016, 10:48 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree 100% and you will never hear me sticking up for him.

 Liked Chad a thousand times more. 

Thank you.

It's an unpopular stance because Henry passed away but it was truth.

Henry was a field stretcher and on his way to being much more than that.

He derailed himself and the team was always having to change what they were doing because he could not be relied on.

(08-21-2016, 10:30 AM)jason Wrote: I have no problem with celebrations unless they are over done. I must admit that it was hilarious when William Gay got flagged for celebrating his pick 6 off McCarran, only to drag it out even longer. It was uncomfortably long. He's probably still crawling at this moment.

I also liked it when Burfict left the field after what should have been a dagger interception in the playoffs. In hindsight, I wish he would have stayed in the locker room.

Hated the fact that Burfict went into locker room acting like the game was over with almost a full 2 minutes left in game and the steelers having 3 time outs left.

Then after him and his posse returned several minutes later laughing it up and celebrating before the deed was done. 

One of the dumbest things I ever witnessed and could have easily been flagged. But then karma bit him and he got his flag anyway. 

Great player dumb move. 

If i remember hearing correctly Jeremy Hill has the most rushing TDs in the league over the last two years.

Now we have Jeremy Hill with a whole new focused attitude. Could be really big things. Sure would love to see a Shaun Alexander type mega TD production year. I think it is possible. And that is why I want Jeremy Hill on my fantasy team.

(08-21-2016, 10:52 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Thank you.

It's an unpopular stance because Henry passed away but it was truth.

Henry was a field stretcher and on his way to being much more than that.

He derailed himself and the team was always having to change what they were doing because he could not be relied on.

Was never so mad at him as I was when he got suspended the night before the steelers game that forced Laveranues Coles into action.

Because although was not a fan, but he was the perfect hot read when Palmer was blitzed. He would just throw it up there and let him go get it. Coles could not offer the same and we lost a statement game.  

(08-21-2016, 10:58 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: If i remember hearing correctly Jeremy Hill has the most rushing TDs in the league over the last two years.

Now we have Jeremy Hill with a whole new focused attitude. Could be really big things. Sure would love to see a Shaun Alexander type mega TD production year. I think it is possible. And that is why I want Jeremy Hill on my fantasy team.

This is exactly my point. Not so prudish to care about short celebrations after great plays. 

But this does tell me that he is concentrating on being the best he can be. 

Applaud him for the dedication to the team and effort to better himself. 

Have no idea why him not celebrating a preseason TD bothers anybody.

He scored it, he can do what he chooses. It was his moment in the sun, not theirs.

Seems he is getting more talk about it by doing nothing than if he would have spiked it and danced actually.