(07-04-2015, 07:37 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Well... he has been healthy.

...and one of only 3 TEs in the history of the game to have at least 50 catches in his first 3 seasons.  I would say that is not a one-year wonder or hype.

(07-04-2015, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and one of only 3 TEs in the history of the game to have at least 50 catches in his first 3 seasons.  I would say that is not a one-year wonder or hype.

Pretty fair to say he's been consistently average.

One year he averages 6.5 yards per catch and has 10 drops, then it drops to 4.2 yards per catch with only 1 drop 2 years later.

Statistically he's been on a downfall since 2012, both years he was the feature TE.

(07-04-2015, 07:47 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Pretty fair to say he's been consistently average.

One year he averages 6.5 yards per catch and has 10 drops, then it drops to 4.2 yards per catch with only 1 drop 2 years later.

Statistically he's been on a downfall since 2012, both years he was the feature TE.

Gresh had the 2nd most catches in his career last year. Dude had 62 catches on only 79 targets. Jermaine doesn't call the plays so I don't see how YPC should be a strike against him. Everybody has their opinion and mine is that he has been a fine target for Andy. 

(07-04-2015, 08:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Gresh had the 2nd most catches in his career last year. Dude had 62 catches on only 79 targets. Jermaine doesn't call the plays so I don't see how YPC should be a strike against him. Everybody has their opinion and mine is that he has been a fine target for Andy. 

I wonder why no other team has made any offers to sign him. Sure he has some injury issues but if he is a fine TE i'd think teams would be clamoring for him. 

Eifert will obliterate Gresham if healthy...mark my words.

(07-04-2015, 08:07 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I wonder why no other team has made any offers to sign him. Sure he has some injury issues but if he is a fine TE i'd think teams would be clamoring for him. 

Eifert will obliterate Gresham if healthy...mark my words.

A few teams were interested in Gresh before the injury was discovered and he would certainly be in Silver and Black if the injury had not been discovered. New Orleans has shown interest since his surgery. If he is healthy he will be signed and he will contribute.

I suppose on what facet of the game you consider when you state Eifert will obliterate Gresh "if healthy". 

Gresh's 1st 2 years in the NFl he had 108 catches and 10 TDs. Eifert has 42 catches and 2 TDs. 

(07-04-2015, 08:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Gresh had the 2nd most catches in his career last year. Dude had 62 catches on only 79 targets. Jermaine doesn't call the plays so I don't see how YPC should be a strike against him. Everybody has their opinion and mine is that he has been a fine target for Andy. 

I already said he a drop, I saw he had 62 catches. He lead the league in lowest drop percentage.

Other than that... that Saints TD was hilarious.

Gresham is.....a better Reggie Kelly.

(07-05-2015, 01:18 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Gresham is.....a better Reggie Kelly.

At least he didn't look like a doofus carrying the pigskin around.

(07-05-2015, 01:18 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Gresham is.....a better Reggie Kelly.

Reggie Kelly only had more than 25 catches as a Bengal once in his career. Gresh never had fewer than 45. Not sure I see the reason to use them in the same sentence.  

(07-04-2015, 12:54 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: That's a major reach.  Dalton has never displayed the accuracy or pocket presence of Brees.  Even last season Brees in San Diego for that matter.  The other problem with that assertion is Sean Payton isn't coming in to craft the Bengals offense.

What? Brees had 8 fumbles in his last season in San Diego. He also never had less than 15 interceptions a season while in San Diego except for 04. He had 20 fumbles in his first 4 seasons (in 01 he played one game and 03 he played in 11). Brees had trouble in the pocket early on.

In his first 59 games, Brees had 53 interceptions and fumbled the ball 20 times.
In Dalton's first 59 games, he has 49 intercerptions and 10 fumbles.

He struggled during his time in San Diego. He had a huge breakout year in 04, but his game play, tape, and style is what we have in Dalton. Dalton's play is VERY similar to Brees. Is that saying Dalton will be elite like him? No. It's saying that Dalton has the same strengths and weaknesses Brees portrayed early on in his career.

That, I think, is the problem. It wouldn't surprise me if Dalton went to a new team and started playing around (don't think as high) the level Brees has done.

Although, the biggest difference between Brees early on and Dalton is Brees' play in the playoffs. He only had 5 turnovers his first 3 playoff games. In the next 4 games he only had one turnover.

(07-05-2015, 02:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Reggie Kelly only had more than 25 catches as a Bengal once in his career. Gresh never had fewer than 45. Not sure I see the reason to use them in the same sentence.  

How dare you defend Gresh when the consensus is that he is crappy and or an average TE. The board football minds have come together and decided he is no good. Surprised you werent called an idiot for opposing certain posters....you know having a different opinion. With all that being said the problems with Gresh were over inflated in the minds of people because of the many mistakes he had, even when he cleaned it up the amount of hate he still received was ridiculous. He is a good TE and if used properly will be a consistent contributor for what ever team he lands on. 

I am on board the Eifert train and believe he will be better than Gresh.

(07-05-2015, 09:29 AM)CincyProduct Wrote: How dare you defend Gresh when the consensus is that he is crappy and or an average TE. The board football minds have come together and decided he is no good. Surprised you werent called an idiot for opposing certain posters....you know having a different opinion. With all that being said the problems with Gresh were over inflated in the minds of people because of the many mistakes he had, even when he cleaned it up the amount of hate he still received was ridiculous. He is a good TE and if used properly will be a consistent contributor for what ever team he lands on. 

I am on board the Eifert train and believe he will be better than Gresh.

The Bengals LOVE and effort hard to keep their own players. They are the most loyal team in the league (see Leon Hall contract). The fact that they made zero effort to resign him and moved on to a 3rd and 5th round pick to couple with Eifert says everything anyone would need to know about how they felt about Gresham's career there.

(07-04-2015, 06:49 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Carson had just as good of an OL, and he had a good running game most of his career.  Dalton hasn't had near the offensive talent around him, and that great defense/OL you like to mention plays like crap in the playoffs.

With the Bengals roster since 2011, Carson > Dalton and it's not even remotely close.

- Carson Had an excellent O-line until about 2008 when it broke down.

- The clowns, selfishness, and distractions in the locker room were the complete opposite of 2011 and beyond.

- Offensively, Carson had a great group of wideouts until Ocho came about. Down hill drastically from there. Coles was the biggest bust FA WR I had seen the team sign until..... Antonio Bryant. AD has a better #1 target, more reliable guys from 3 down, and some good TEs. Carson had junk at the TE spot and after Housh, depth was a mess.

- Rudi Johnson was a product of the O-Line. His career was over when he left the Bengals. The 3rd down back situation during Carson's career was a mess.

- People bang on Carson all the time. It's sour grapes nonsense. The offense was so good under Carson but the defenses were trash most of the time. Between 2006 & 2007 if the Bengals would have held opponents to 24 points of less they would have won 12 more games, making them the 1st or 2nd seed in the AFC those years and one of the best teams in football.

- 2008, the O-line fell apart and the offense went with it until CARSON forced exit forced a reboot of the team.

Those tankful that the Bengals have Duke Tobin as defacto GM and scout and draft differently... thank Carson. Glad Chad was jettisoned to NE (?).... thank Carson. Glad Mike Brown stepped back.... thank Carson. He fell on the sword and took a public beating for the Bengals to realize they needed to make changes from the top down. Those not seeing that, don't understand how the Bengals WERE run vs. how they are run NOW. Carson the player would have had this team killing it in the playoffs with the defense and locker room AD has had. No question!

(07-03-2015, 10:35 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What's funny is, he [Dalton] was considered to be clutch and unflappable at TCU....even leading the underdog Horned Frogs to a Rose Bowl victory over the Wisconsin Badgers, a game in which Dalton beat JJ Watt to the corner for a TD

Very strange phenomenon. 

Equally strange is the coaching staff's a)inability to prepare its team for a playoff game and/or b)ability to rattle its own team before a playoff game.

Is it something in the air?  The water?  The building? 

Why?  The million dollar question and I have never seen anybody be able to come up with a definitive answer.

(07-05-2015, 10:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: With the Bengals roster since 2011, Carson > Dalton and it's not even remotely close.

- Carson Had an excellent O-line until about 2008 when it broke down.

- The clowns, selfishness, and distractions in the locker room were the complete opposite of 2011 and beyond.

- Offensively, Carson had a great group of wideouts until Ocho came about. Down hill drastically from there. Coles was the biggest bust FA WR I had seen the team sign until..... Antonio Bryant. AD has a better #1 target, more reliable guys from 3 down, and some good TEs. Carson had junk at the TE spot and after Housh, depth was a mess.

- Rudi Johnson was a product of the O-Line. His career was over when he left the Bengals. The 3rd down back situation during Carson's career was a mess.

- People bang on Carson all the time. It's sour grapes nonsense. The offense was so good under Carson but the defenses were trash most of the time. Between 2006 & 2007 if the Bengals would have held opponents to 24 points of less they would have won 12 more games, making them the 1st or 2nd seed in the AFC those years and one of the best teams in football.

- 2008, the O-line fell apart and the offense went with it until CARSON forced exit forced a reboot of the team.

Those tankful that the Bengals have Duke Tobin as defacto GM and scout and draft differently... thank Carson. Glad Chad was jettisoned to NE (?).... thank Carson. Glad Mike Brown stepped back.... thank Carson. He fell on the sword and took a public beating for the Bengals to realize they needed to make changes from the top down. Those not seeing that, don't understand how the Bengals WERE run vs. how they are run NOW. Carson the player would have had this team killing it in the playoffs with the defense and locker room AD has had. No question!

Hard to argue with any of this.  Well said.

(07-05-2015, 02:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Reggie Kelly only had more than 25 catches as a Bengal once in his career. Gresh never had fewer than 45. Not sure I see the reason to use them in the same sentence.  

That's why I added the adverb "better" 
He was good not great. Not so good you can sit there and say, "OMG Such an advantage"

Gresham was 11th in number of catches. 
59th in yards per catch.

His career average is .6 yards higher than Reggie Kelly's.

Given the blocker Gresh became, the routes he ran....he was a better Reggie Kelly 

(07-05-2015, 12:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He was good not great. Not so good you can sit there and say, "OMG Such an advantage"

...and not so bad that someone could suggest that the only weapon Andy has had is AJ; which is the post I responded to.

As I also pointed out earlier it is absurd to point out his YPC as a negative; as someone looking for something to discredit Gresh would do. Gresh does not call the routes. 

(07-05-2015, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and not so bad that someone could suggest that the only weapon Andy has had is AJ; which is the post I responded to.

As I also pointed out earlier it is absurd to point out his YPC as a negative; as someone looking for something to discredit Gresh would do. Gresh does not call the routes. 

Well, we got something correct here.

Sooooo, a low YPC or an even lower Yards per route run (1.29, which btw is 15th out 19 TEs who played 50% of their teams snaps) isn't his fault because he wasn't the signal caller. How about averaging only 4.2 yards after catch per reception (19th out of 35 TEs who played 50% of their teams snaps).

In his time here, he was a solid red zone target, a dump off man, a good effort guy, and a borderline knucklehead. A weapon... not so sure.

(07-05-2015, 12:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That's why I added the adverb "better" 
He was good not great. Not so good you can sit there and say, "OMG Such an advantage"

Gresham was 11th in number of catches. 
59th in yards per catch.

His career average is .6 yards higher than Reggie Kelly's.

Given the blocker Gresh became, the routes he ran....he was a better Reggie Kelly

I think the staff wanted him to be a better Reggie Kelly. The problem is Gresh and Kelly don't have the same skill set so they kinda wasted him his entire time here.

I remember the Colts game in the regular season this year when he had like 10 catches for under 50 yards because almost every route for him was a dump off and he was hit by 3 or 4 defenders as soon as he got the ball. That's a coaching failure.

Kelly vs Gresham debate: