(08-30-2016, 11:54 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Osweiller did with a 7/10 TD/int ratio and starting only a handful of games
Matt Schaub did backing up Vick 


A team will give AJM a large contract especially since they wouldn't have to give up a pick. 

And if Andy goes down for 4-6 weeks (not season ending) id feel a lot better about mccaron going .500 during the stretch.  At least it keeps you in contention. Austin Davis maybe .333 and you are out of it in the blink of an eye.

I think Davis could get you to .500 with this supporting cast.....let's be honest, he's never played with talent anywhere near what this offense brings to the table.  

(08-30-2016, 11:48 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: We won't be winning any Super Bowls with AJ starting. If Andy goes down the best we can hope for is .500 ball with AJ at this point. Not impossible to replace that with another less talented backup.

If Dalton is lost for the entire season we won't win the Super Bowl, but many times a starting QB only goes down for a few weeks.  In those cases a good back up QB is crucial to the success of the team.

And it is absolutely falser that all back up QBs are the same.


You are actually contradicting yourself.  On one hand you are claiming that McCarron is good enough for some other team to trade for him or sign him to a big contract, then you claim that he is no better than any other back up in the league.  Both of those statements can't be true.

(08-30-2016, 11:54 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Osweiller did with a 7/10 TD/int ratio and starting only a handful of games
Matt Schaub did backing up Vick 


A team will give AJM a large contract especially since they wouldn't have to give up a pick. 

And if Andy goes down for 4-6 weeks (not season ending) id feel a lot better about mccaron going .500 during the stretch.  At least it keeps you in contention. Austin Davis maybe .333 and you are out of it in the blink of an eye.

Osweiler got paid the year after getting his starts. If he sat on the bench the next two years he would not be getting the contract/opportunity he is now. That's why trading AJ now is the smart move.

And I firmly believe Davis could take this team .500 too, can't compare a QB's record with the Browns to the bengals

(08-30-2016, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Dalton is lost for the entire season we won't win the Super Bowl, but many times a starting QB only goes down for a few weeks.  In those cases a good back up QB is crucial to the success of the team.

And it is absolutely falser that all back up QBs are the same.


You are actually contradicting yourself.  On one hand you are claiming that McCarron is good enough for some other team to trade for him or sign him to a big contract, then you claim that he is no better than any other back up in the league.  Both of those statements can't be true.

I know QBs go down for less than a season which is why I said we'd get .500 ball out of AJ like we did in the regular season last year. I'm not saying Davis is as good as AJ but I do believe the team carried AJ last year, he did just enough to win the games we should have one and lost to the good teams he played. I think we coule get the same RESULTS out of a lesser QB with the skill on this team

And I am not contradicting myself, teams that are desperate for starting QB's overpay all of the time. I'm saying we should stike while the irons hot with AJ. Between his play last year and the salary/years remaining his value is at its peak, and we should capitalize on that. 

Also I never said anything about all backup qb's being the same. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth like that. Ok, thanks!

(08-30-2016, 10:07 AM)Wyche Wrote: McCarron IS leaving if he isn't named the starter by the end of his contract, make no mistake about that.  This is discussion about a contingency plan for when the day arrives.  The OP is right, Austin Davis is a very good backup in his own right, would be perfect for what we will be looking for.

Agree that after next season McCarron will want to leave if not a starter and who could blame him.

That being said he is a valuable commodity this season on the cheap. Unless an insane offer comes along of course, but that ship sailed at deadline. 

But agree that eventually he will have to be traded or lose him for nothing in return. 

(08-30-2016, 12:12 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Osweiler got paid the year after getting his starts. If he sat on the bench the next two years he would not be getting the contract/opportunity he is now. That's why trading AJ now is the smart move.

And I firmly believe Davis could take this team .500 too, can't compare a QB's record with the Browns to the bengals

It is too late, no one is trading for a Qb now.  Maybe if one gets hurt and they are hoping he can come in and pickup playbook, but otherwise he is a Bengal this year.

And by the way, osweiller was borderline trash. AJM actually played decent last year and showed again in the preseason.  I'd assume he will get real Snaps in garbage time this year to also keep value up if bengals are smart.  His value won't be going down anytime soon.  And again a 3rd comp pick and 2 years of top end backup Qb is worth more than a 2nd round pick all day everyday and twice on Sunday. 

(08-30-2016, 12:18 PM)Bengalbug Wrote:
It is too late, no one is trading for a Qb now.  Maybe if one gets hurt and they are hoping he can come in and pickup playbook, but otherwise he is a Bengal this year.

And by the way, osweiller was borderline trash. AJM actually played decent last year and showed again in the preseason.  I'd assume he will get real Snaps in garbage time this year to also keep value up if bengals are smart.  His value won't be going down anytime soon.  And again a 3rd comp pick and 2 years of top end backup Qb is worth more than a 2nd round pick all day everyday and twice on Sunday. 

That is pretty much exactly what I said earlier so glad we're on the same page.

And both QB's were carried by the excellent teams. Mccarron played ok at times and so did Brock. If mccarron doesn't get another 4-6 game stint as a starter in the next 2 years he will not be paid like Brock was, and we will not get a 3rd round comp pick.Plain and simple

(08-30-2016, 12:23 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: That is pretty much exactly what I said earlier so glad we're on the same page.

And both QB's were carried by the excellent teams. Mccarron played ok at times and so did Brock. If mccarron doesn't get another 4-6 game stint as a starter in the next 2 years he will not be paid like Brock was, and we will not get a 3rd round comp pick.Plain and simple

We will see, I hope he doesn't get the 4-6 game stint.  With that said he can get 4 quarters of action this season and keep his value as high.

Plus I'd assume people around the league have a better gauge of a player than just game film.  Could be wrong but I'm sure people talk within the league.  The bengals know exactly what AJM could fetch Now and should be able to keep value up

(08-30-2016, 12:17 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: And I am not contradicting myself, teams that are desperate for starting QB's overpay all of the time. I'm saying we should stike while the irons hot with AJ. Between his play last year and the salary/years remaining his value is at its peak, and we should capitalize on that. 

Also I never said anything about all backup qb's being the same. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth like that. Ok, thanks!

Here is what you said

(08-30-2016, 11:48 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote:  If Andy goes down the best we can hope for is .500 ball with AJ at this point. Not impossible to replace that with another less talented backup. 

And you are contradicting yourself.  You claim that McCarron's play last year gives him a high value, but then you claim we can do no better than .500 with him as a starter.

If he played well enough to be a hot commodity then why would we do no better than .500 with him starting?  If the Bengals can do just as good with any other back up as McCarron then why would other teams pay more for McCarron than any other back up?

(08-30-2016, 12:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is what you said



And you are contradicting yourself.  You claim that Maccarrons play last year makes him a hot commodity, but then you claim we con do no better than .500 with him as a starter.

If he played well enough to be a hpt commodity then why would we do no better than .500 with him starting?  If the Bengals can do just as good with McCarron as any other back up then why would other teams pay more for McCarron than any other back up?

No I am not contradicting myself. AJ got valuable experience and played fairly well. We went .500 with him in there. A QB with NFL game film that can go .500 and has potential to develop further is a hot commodity, especially with 2 more years at a small salary. He is not going to develop a whole lot more riding the bench for 2 seasons tho. If he were getting first team reps and starting he would improve at a quicker rate and give a team in need of a QB someone to believe in/build around. 

Maybe you should consider ALL factors in his value and not just his record

And once again never said bengals could do just as well with "any other" QB. There are QB's that could get similar results tho. Not all backups could do that tho

(08-30-2016, 09:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know he is not PS eligible, but I really, really like this kid.  If there was an amazing offer on the table for McCarron, I would only accept it if they signed him first. 

He has had his share of bad fortune but he keeps fighting back.  I thought the kid showed a lot of guts against our D that was KILLING the Browns last year and he would stay in, knowing he was going to get blown up, and deliver a strike down the field.  And they had very few weapons to speak of.

I hope he ends up in a good situation.  If I was SF, I would be all over this kid. 

I love McCarron, but if there is an offer that is too good to refuse than this is a great idea. Davis flashed some ability albeit in limited time, but McCarron is pro-ready and could help a team now and Davis has the tools to succeed if Dalton were to go down and let's face it we're not the Browns, we have enough talent to be able to carry him if there were a major drop off.

(08-30-2016, 10:11 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: So you want to give up a QB that knows our system and can step in if something happens..

for someone that doesn't.

Yep that'll be an upgrade.

If we were to trade away that security I needs to be for a decent player not a crap shot in the draft.

At the end of this season, yes, I would.  I would give up McCarron for a significant (read:  no less than a high second rounder, and maybe a first rounder)  draft pick that could help this team for years to come compared to a QB that we all like a great deal, but know full well that they won't be able to sign as a backup once he becomes a FA.

And I don't view Davis as a crap shoot in the draft.  He is a very solid backup that is pretty similar to Dalton in terms of size and strengths.  He has a quick release and is accurate on short and intermediate throws.  I really like his determination.  I could see him (hopefully) holding a clipboard for Dalton for the next five years (after this season, obviously).

(08-30-2016, 10:16 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Against the Bengals he had a around a 72 percent QB rating, 0 TDs, 1 INT and and 1 Fumble, sure the Browns were not good but he was a part of the Browns not being good.  No way would I consider trading AJ and having him as our backup.  If you can;t even stick with the Browns as a QB ... enough said lol

You didn't watch the game, clearly. Nor do you know a thing about him.  I have scouted him ever since Southern Miss. 

The thing you don't seem to realize is McCarron is gone after next year.  That is all but guaranteed.  No one will give much during the season for him.  If there is a really solid offer (first or early second rounder) on the table before next year's draft, then you have the capability of gaining a player that could help this team for many years, versus one that you hope won't have to play. 

Davis is just what I had thought of as a veteran backup to Dalton after McCarron.

(08-30-2016, 11:42 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: And the bengals will get a 3rd round comp pick...

2 years of great backup and a 3rd comp is worth more than a 2nd in my opinion.  So unless a team is offering a 1st (and maybe more) don't expect him to get moved.  The bengals will squat on him, collect their 3rd and likely start the backup plan next year.

With their window now, it would be idiotic to trade him for a 2nd next yeAr when mccaroon could help this year.  

Good point, but I don't know if in fact he would bring a third based on his draft position and playing time.  I know contract $ figure in to it somehow....

But, it is a very valid point to bring up.  I would likely only do it after this season and only if it were a first rounder or a very high second with a sweetener.

(08-30-2016, 03:52 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good point, but I don't know if in fact he would bring a third based on his draft position and playing time.  I know contract $ figure in to it somehow....

But, it is a very valid point to bring up.  I would likely only do it after this season and only if it were a first rounder or a very high second with a sweetener.

Teddy bridgwater went down in practice with a non contact knee injury... Doesn't look good.  With how good the Vikings are maybe they look to the bengals to swing a trade?  

Then the bengals can go after a Davis or mettenberger type

(08-30-2016, 04:24 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Teddy bridgwater went down in practice with a non contact knee injury... Doesn't look good.  With how good the Vikings are maybe they look to the bengals to swing a trade?  

Then the bengals can go after a Davis or mettenberger type

I think they feel pretty good about Shawn Hill

(08-30-2016, 05:49 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think they feel pretty good about Shawn Hill

They have sb aspirations this year they arent going to the playoffs with shaun hill

Also shefty reporting compound fracture rappaport reporting torn acl

(08-30-2016, 05:54 PM)Jpoore Wrote: They have sb aspirations this year they arent going to the playoffs with shaun hill

You're missing the point.  It isn't just this year.  Bridgewater is their long-term solution at QB, so they can't bring in McCarron by offering up their #1 pick because they wouldn't need him beyond this year.  They wouldn't want the cap hit in the future to give McCarron a new contract.  You don't trade #1s for rent-a-players.  You look for a Ryan Fitzpatrick-type and try to catch lightening in a bottle or go with Hill, who is a pretty good option.

(08-31-2016, 07:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You're missing the point.  It isn't just this year.  Bridgewater is their long-term solution at QB, so they can't bring in McCarron by offering up their #1 pick because they wouldn't need him beyond this year.  They wouldn't want the cap hit in the future to give McCarron a new contract.  You don't trade #1s for rent-a-players.  You look for a Ryan Fitzpatrick-type and try to catch lightening in a bottle or go with Hill, who is a pretty good option.

Maybe they would trade a 4-5 for kaepwrnick. Pay him his 11 mill this year try and catch that lightning and then cut him as his contract is not guarunteed  

Gene smith may be an option...

Or Vick

Trying to think of mobile guys who could
Potentially run and manage an offense