(07-09-2015, 02:24 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No.  I was replying to someone who brought up the defensive ranking this season as an explanation as to why we fell short, and/or, IMO, to deflect blame from Andy.  I was simply asking for clarification as to why then we didn't win when our defense was near the top of the rankings, if they were truly to blame for this season's shortcomings.  Same goes for injuries or lack thereof.

Strange how I hear the "whole team" always gets brought up in these losses.  But I also always hear about how many games "Andy has won."  Funny how that works.  Andy made the playoffs 4 straight years.  Andy has won 40 games.  The team lost those games though.  Sure, and Noodles historically awful playoff run has nothing to with it either.  Nothing more than a team effort. 

You guys flip flop and just make this garbage up on the fly.  Look no further than fact that I'm now trying defend the relevancy of team defense, after replying to a team Andy guy, who brought it up to begin with.  I'm now getting grilled on the relevancy on the very thing that was just used to defend him.  Amazing.  Simply amazing.

Here are a few ways to handle the Dalton homers.

When they say it's a team game, agree with them. When they credit Dalton for all the success and make excuses for the bad games, do one of the follow:

Link the highlights of last year's Thursday night Cleveland game. It was so bad that there's just no excuse anywhere under the sun which can come close to explaining it.

If they blame the defense for the playoff losses, point out that only twice in the Super Bowl era has a team won a playoff game by scoring 10 or fewer points: Buffalo beat Denver 10-7 in the AFC Championship game in 1991 (24 years ago) and Dallas beat Detroit 5-0 in a divisional playoff game in 1970 (45 years ago). You can also point out that the Bengals D out scored the offense in the 2012 playoff game against Houston.

Post Dalton's playoff stats, which combined are 1 passing TD, 1 rushing TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs, 1 SAF, 0 wins, 4 losses. You can add that Dalton is tied for the NFL's all-time worst playoff record for a QB if you want, but that tends to go over the heads and the idea that he could set a new all-time record this year is unthinkable, even though true.

If they blame it all on injuries, just point that those must have been some mighty powerful injuries to reach into the past cause losses in 2011, 2012 and 2013. They'll change the subject to Dalton had no weapons until 2013, which is illogical when you examine the actual rosters.

I don't hate Dalton. I wish him well. I hope he plays well this year. But the excuses and the cherry picked stats used to prop this guy up are amazingly annoying. Sometimes I think it's his mother writing the posts.

(07-08-2015, 10:31 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I find it interesting that I see an extremely similar post year after year after year from the same people. The team loses yet another playoff game and we have these same people that are somehow baffled that everybody isn't a believer in a team that hasn't sniffed a playoff victory in a quarter of a century.

If you want to talk about interesting things, maybe think about that for a minute.

Since you are attempting to call me out with lies, think about this, I gave AD and our team no free pass in 2013.

In fact, I was very critical of a poor home playoff performance by our QB, our offense, our defense and our coaches.

But, as usual, you jump to trying to attack someone personally while ignoring the facts presented.

(07-09-2015, 02:24 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No.  I was replying to someone who brought up the defensive ranking this season as an explanation as to why we fell short, and/or, IMO, to deflect blame from Andy.  I was simply asking for clarification as to why then we didn't win when our defense was near the top of the rankings, if they were truly to blame for this season's shortcomings.  Same goes for injuries or lack thereof.

Strange how I hear the "whole team" always gets brought up in these losses.  But I also always hear about how many games "Andy has won."  Funny how that works.  Andy made the playoffs 4 straight years.  Andy has won 40 games.  The team lost those games though.  Sure, and Noodles historically awful playoff run has nothing to with it either.  Nothing more than a team effort. 

You guys flip flop and just make this garbage up on the fly.  Look no further than fact that I'm now trying defend the relevancy of team defense, after replying to a team Andy guy, who brought it up to begin with.  I'm now getting grilled on the relevancy on the very thing that was just used to defend him.  Amazing.  Simply amazing.

We lost on the road in Houston in 2011 and 2012 to a better team.

The offense and defense played poorly in 2011.
In 2012, the offense played poorly.
In 2013, our defense and offense played poorly in the playoff loss.
In 2014, our defense and offense played poorly.

In 2014, our offense and defense had major injuries with our offense having more than the defense. By the 2014 playoff game, we have essentially an average number 2 or 3 receiver playing as our number 1. We had our 4th string TE starting as we lost Eifert, Gresham and Smith to injury. We had used a running back as a receiver that was how weak our WR/TE situation was in Indy.

I am extremely disappointed in 1 playoff loss, the loss at home in 2013 was inexcusable. There is no doubt AD gets a lot of the blame, but so does Burfict who played like crap while the defense allowed 200 yards rushing. Green dropped a sure fire TD. Gio fumbled. AD made way too many mistakes including an unforced fumble on a scramble.

2013 was the year AD and  the entire team blew it.

The other 3 are very debatable and would have taken huge upsets. Those upsets obviously did not happen.

(07-09-2015, 07:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Since you are attempting to call me out with lies, think about this, I gave AD and our team no free pass in 2013.

In fact, I was very critical of a poor home playoff performance by our QB, our offense, our defense and our coaches.

But, as usual, you jump to trying to attack someone personally while ignoring the facts presented.

Can you even read? Honestly, you completely misinterpreted my post, and I'm pretty sure I laid it out very clearly.

All that I said was that it's funny that certain people make the same general post year after year (I believe they're going to win it this year!!!!-esque posts), and those same people (you and others) are somehow baffled that others aren't jumping up and down with you about a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years. Where did I lie?

I think it's funny that people are confused year after year that everybody else isn't in agreement with them about the team winning a playoff game that season. That's all there was to my post, I apologize that you had trouble interpreting my words that were properly ordered.

Did Coley really say "the Curse of Bo Jackson" is a reason why the Bengals won't win in the PO?

(07-09-2015, 08:17 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Can you even read? Honestly, you completely misinterpreted my post, and I'm pretty sure I laid it out very clearly.

All that I said was that it's funny that certain people make the same general post year after year (I believe they're going to win it this year!!!!-esque posts), and those same people (you and others) are somehow baffled that others aren't jumping up and down with you about a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years. Where did I lie?

I think it's funny that people are confused year after year that everybody else isn't in agreement with them about the team winning a playoff game that season. That's all there was to my post, I apologize that you had trouble interpreting my words that were properly ordered.

I called you out for being a liar since you quoted a post by me stating I excuse playoff losses every year when in fact I have blasted AD and the team for 2013.

Now if you were making a general statement not specific to me, then don't quote my post.

I still firmly believe it's not the QB, the Defense, the RB's, the OC, or whatever that has to change.

It's the heart and soul, the confidence, the attitude, the swagger, that truly has to change deep inside. Sure Whit yells a little, Adam Jones, gets on people, Marvin yells in front of the camera on Hardknocks, but at it's core there's no real belief in the system, in each other. No accountability

I'm not sure under Mikey, or Marvin this will ever truly change, or even can ?

(07-08-2015, 10:31 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I find it interesting that I see an extremely similar post year after year after year from the same people. The team loses yet another playoff game and we have these same people that are somehow baffled that everybody isn't a believer in a team that hasn't sniffed a playoff victory in a quarter of a century.

If you want to talk about interesting things, maybe think about that for a minute.

Please read the above post again.......

(07-09-2015, 09:11 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I called you out for being a liar since you quoted a post by me stating I excuse playoff losses every year when in fact I have blasted AD and the team for 2013.

Now if you were making a general statement not specific to me, then don't quote my post.

I NEVER said you excuse playoff losses.

I merely stated that I find it funny that you're baffled that everybody else isn't on board that "this is the year!" for a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 25 years. Do you really not get it?

This is hilarious. I'll gladly accept my apology when you're ready for calling me a liar when I NEVER said anything remotely close to you excusing anything.

(07-08-2015, 03:50 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Over the last couple of weeks, Coley and the AFC North guys at ESPN have chimed in on whether Andy Dalton and the Bengals can finally get that elusive playoff win...




Can Andy Dalton take the next step and win a playoff game?
Andy Dalton has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, but as Cincinnati Bengals fans are all too aware, he's 0-for-4 in those opportunities. Is there reason to believe this year will be different if the Bengals make the playoffs again?

Read the responses http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/17530/afc-north-qa-is-there-reason-to-believe-andy-dalton-will-take-the-next-step-in-his-development-and-win-a-playoff-game





Why playoff-win drought for Bengals, Andy Dalton will continue
Ask any sports fan from the Queen City what he or she most wants out of their professional sports teams and you will get a simple answer: a playoff win.

It's been 20 years since the Cincinnati Reds won a playoff series, and 25 since the Cincinnati Bengals last claimed a postseason victory. Earlier this summer, the New York Times even declared the city's sports fans as the 12th-most tortured in the country, due to the dearth of recent postseason success.

Read the rest of the article http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/17877/bengals-andy-dalton-playoffs-win-drought-continues

What? Is this guy off his rocker? Who in their right mind just wants "playoff wins"? Is that really the pinnacle of sports?

Give me championships baby. The Steelers have 6, I just want one over here.

(07-08-2015, 07:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Whenever the topic of the Bengals and the playoffs comes up...it always seems that we get the usual line of "excuses" for each loss. I would have no problem accepting the excuses for any individual loss, if that game were an anomaly compared to the others. But, that's not the case. Instead, each loss has followed a disturbingly similar pattern, regardless of what "excuses" may have existed.


For all the reasons that can be brought up to explain each of the 6 losses, the frustrating constants remain the same, game in, game out. Until those "constants" are addressed and fixed...excuses are all we're left with.


Like I said earlier, I think they're capable of winning in the postseason...but only when the coaches and players decide to put out a competent/competitive, full 60 minute effort.

MY GOD HOW REFRESHING! We have a moderator on here who's is a huge Bengals fan and actually posts some good discussions on the board and isn't completely over the top telling people its a "Good" thing the Bengals lost or that "This is the year and bank on it"


I agree 100% with your post and for me I believe the Bengals are very capable of winning in the post season, and even beyond winning one game. My biggest gripe is Marvin.  At one point will he get the team competitive and prepared enough for the post season if it all? The post season is a big step up from the regular season and he hasn't shown in all 6 appearances that he is able to take on that challenge successfully. Do I think this team is talented? Yes, I think they are very talented. Do I think Marvin can bring them to the promised land? No I don't. 

(07-09-2015, 09:13 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I still firmly believe it's not the QB, the Defense, the RB's, the OC, or whatever that has to change.

It's the heart and soul, the confidence, the attitude, the swagger, that truly has to change deep inside. Sure Whit yells a little, Adam Jones, gets on people, Marvin yells in front of the camera on Hardknocks, but at it's core there's no real belief in the system, in each other. No accountability

I'm not sure under Mikey, or Marvin this will ever truly change, or even can ?

I think you're on to something, but I'd go as far to argue that whatever it is that stops us from winning a "playoff game" ( ridiculous how much emphasis these games get over any other game played during the year) is out of the team's control.

The league still views us as a low-tier organization. We haven't been to the Super Bowl since the eighties, and we haven't been a respectable organization since then (in many people's eyes).

If we want to win championships, we have to take baby steps to get there. Every other team does before they win the big one, why are we entitled to not have to wait like everybody else?

(07-09-2015, 09:20 AM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: What? Is this guy off his rocker? Who in their right mind just wants "playoff wins"? Is that really the pinnacle of sports?

Give me championships baby. The Steelers have 6, I just want one over here.

(07-09-2015, 09:26 AM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: If we want to win championships, we have to take baby steps to get there. Every other team does before they win the big one, why are we entitled to not have to wait like everybody else?

Aren't those statements made by you just minutes apart fairly contradicting of one another?

At first you diminish winning in the playoffs by mocking it by asking if it's really the "pinnacle of sports". You say that you just want a championship and that's that.

Then only a few minutes later you say that we shouldn't feel entitled and that we need to make baby steps to get to the championships.

Those baby steps are the playoff wins that everybody is constantly clamoring about.

So which is it? Do we take baby steps or do you just want a championship and playoff wins (baby steps) aren't enough??

(07-08-2015, 05:01 PM)McC Wrote: Gotta get the defense back to least close to what it was.  That makes the whole offense's jobs easier.

I would think the Bengals will be a better team this year than last.  I think we will get back to the playoffs.  Then the whole team, players and coaches, everybody, has to beat the guy across from him.  Play it all out one play at a time.  If you concentrate on details, it's easier to put bigger picture things out of your mind. That giant monkey has to weigh a lot walking out onto that playoff field.

They need more cleverness in game planning.  They need more resiliency, more determination.  They need to be stronger physically and mentally.  Somehow, they just need to be able to just go out there and play and leave all the negativity behind.

The pieces look like they're in place.  And I'm a firm believer that because a thing hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never can.

If I'm weighing hope and confidence, I have more hope but I'm kinda on the edge of my seat, itching to see some proof and wanting so much to believe all out.

I wanna say yes.  The best I can do at this point is say I hope so.

Anyone can understand why beat writers for other teams would say no.  You can make a case for yes or no.

The case for no is based on past history and the case for yes is mostly based on hope and what there is on paper.

I mean clearly the guys for the other teams are biased (as is Coley, which makes me cringe sometimes).

This is part of the overall problem. If we want to win a a championship (which I suppose many of us do), the team is going to have to change its perception from around the league. Teams don't go from bottom feeders to dynasties in one year, they have to pay their dues like everybody else.

Look at the early history of the Pittsburgh Steelers to see what I'm talking about. It takes awhile for an organization to learn how to win, but one would have to be delusional to deny that we're not at least headed in the right direction without a doubt.

(07-09-2015, 09:38 AM)djs7685 Wrote:

Aren't those statements made by you just minutes apart fairly contradicting of one another?

At first you diminish winning in the playoffs by mocking it by asking if it's really the "pinnacle of sports". You say that you just want a championship and that's that.

Then only a few minutes later you say that we shouldn't feel entitled and that we need to make baby steps to get to the championships.

Those baby steps are the playoff wins that everybody is constantly clamoring about.

So which is it? Do we take baby steps or do you just want a championship and playoff wins (baby steps) aren't enough??

The playoff wins themselves aren't some sort of holy games that are enshrined in the NFL Hall of Fame. Their NFL games. Just like the 16 we play over the course of the season.

You'd have to be superstitious in order to honestly insinuate that winning a playoff game in relevant compared to winning in the regular season.

I don't think any Bengals fan is going to watch one playoff win, and then say "Oh look, we've come so far versus the past four years. This is much better than the annual one and done."

Personally, I would like a playoff win, simply because they are stepping stones to the Super Bowl. That's it. If you win a playoff game, and fail to win the championship, you're just like the other 31 teams that didn't win the Super Bowl.

Don't settle for mediocrity when it's clear that we all want so much more.

Here is an article from Gil Brandt.

He feels the Bengals have a shot at a Super Bowl. He feels AD can win a playoff game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000500272/article/cardinals-bengals-headline-teams-vying-for-first-super-bowl-title

To clarify my position on the thoughts of others since DJS thinks he read my mind, I understand 100% why there is a valid argument that AD may never win a playoff game. I am just not in agreement with those who feel there is no way AD can win a playoff game or even a Super Bowl. But, it is very easy to understand why others differ from my opinion on AD.

(07-09-2015, 09:46 AM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: 1. The playoff wins themselves aren't some sort of holy games that are enshrined in the NFL Hall of Fame. Their NFL games. Just like the 16 we play over the course of the season.

2. You'd have to be superstitious in order to honestly insinuate that winning a playoff game in relevant compared to winning in the regular season.

3. I don't think any Bengals fan is going to watch one playoff win, and then say "Oh look, we've come so far versus the past four years. This is much better than the annual one and done."

4. Personally, I would like a playoff win, simply because they are stepping stones to the Super Bowl. That's it. If you win a playoff game, and fail to win the championship, you're just like the other 31 teams that didn't win the Super Bowl.

5. Don't settle for mediocrity when it's clear that we all want so much more.

Huh? I'm not sure what happened to our native language, but I'll attempt to translate as best as I can.

1. Do all 16 regular season games immediately eliminate you from the tournament leading to the final championship game? I'm sorry, I must have missed where they changed the rules. SOME regular season games are just as big as playoff games, but playoff games are absolutely bigger than your average regular season matchup. Sure, you have to win in the regular season to get to the playoffs, but once you're in, those 1 game elimination games become more important than anything else. Not many single regular season games dictate what a single playoff game does. It's the same thing as once you make the Super Bowl, that becomes the biggest game of the year and the playoff games were just a stepping stone. Playing well in the regular season < playing well in the WC/DIV/CONF rounds < playing well in the SB. You need to play well in all of them, but 1 immediately becomes MUCH more important than the other as you go through the process. I don't know how or why anyone would argue otherwise.

2. I'm not even sure if I know what you're trying to say here. Do you know what the word relevant means? I'm going to guess that you're trying to say "You'd have to be superstitious to believe that winning a playoff game is more important than winning in the regular season." If that's what you meant, check my answer to #1.

3. I think EVERY Bengals fan except for you and a very small handful of other like-minded individuals will say that way, actually. Do we all want a championship? Absolutely! Is a playoff win a step in the right direction and a "baby step" to a potential title? It definitely is, and you're just using some absurd logic if you disagree with that.

4. So you just completely contradict your third point with the first sentence of the fourth, but then go on to say that we're in the same position as the other 30 (not 31) teams that didn't win the Super Bowl. Interesting theory, but you're wrong again. Being a perennial playoff contender and winning in the postseason changes more than you're willing to admit. Just for starters, your city becomes more desirable to some of the better veteran free agents that are trying to win a title. If the Patriots and Raiders offer an All-Pro vet the same contract, they may choose the Patriots to try and win a championship. Every FA is different, some are looking for warm weather, some want to be around their family, some just seek the absolute most cash. It's just 1 example of how being a playoff contender can absolutely be much different than being a bottom of the barrel team.

5. There aren't many people that fit in the whole "accepting mediocrity" line that people throw around. There are a couple of guys that will be happy and try to turn everything positive even if we go 0-16, but I don't think there's enough of them, especially on the new board to warrant this statement being thrown around right now. It's sort of silly.

(07-09-2015, 02:24 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No.  I was replying to someone who brought up the defensive ranking this season as an explanation as to why we fell short, and/or, IMO, to deflect blame from Andy.  I was simply asking for clarification as to why then we didn't win when our defense was near the top of the rankings, if they were truly to blame for this season's shortcomings.  Same goes for injuries or lack thereof.

Strange how I hear the "whole team" always gets brought up in these losses.  But I also always hear about how many games "Andy has won."  Funny how that works.  Andy made the playoffs 4 straight years.  Andy has won 40 games.  The team lost those games though.  Sure, and Noodles historically awful playoff run has nothing to with it either.  Nothing more than a team effort. 

You guys flip flop and just make this garbage up on the fly.  Look no further than fact that I'm now trying defend the relevancy of team defense, after replying to a team Andy guy, who brought it up to begin with.  I'm now getting grilled on the relevancy on the very thing that was just used to defend him.  Amazing.  Simply amazing.

You're simply amazing.

(07-08-2015, 10:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: To answer the questions, can we win a playoff game, only a fan ignoring our off season would say no way

(07-09-2015, 09:58 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Here is an article from Gil Brandt.

He feels the Bengals have a shot at a Super Bowl. He feels AD can win a playoff game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000500272/article/cardinals-bengals-headline-teams-vying-for-first-super-bowl-title

To clarify my position on the thoughts of others since DJS thinks he read my mind, I understand 100% why there is a valid argument that AD may never win a playoff game. I am just not in agreement with those who feel there is no way AD can win a playoff game or even a Super Bowl. But, it is very easy to understand why others differ from my opinion on AD.

I don't think I can read your mind, I'm just going by what YOU have stated on here. You have some serious comprehension issues, my friend.

Read the above line from your original post that I cut out, YOU said that, right? Or did I "read your mind" to quote that from YOU?

There are plenty of very good reasons that people may not think our team will win a playoff game. When your original post was acting as if there aren't, that's where I had an issue. Now you're backtracking and saying you can understand why people feel that way.

Do you get it now? Do you understand my issue with your original statement? Your most recent post here is fine and if you said that to begin with, I wouldn't even have commented. I have an issue with people being entirely confused that anybody else would doubt our chances at a playoff win after a quarter century of not winning one. That was my issue with your original post, nothing else at all.

(07-09-2015, 10:07 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Huh? I'm not sure what happened to our native language, but I'll attempt to translate as best as I can.

1. Do all 16 regular season games immediately eliminate you from the tournament leading to the final championship game? I'm sorry, I must have missed where they changed the rules. SOME regular season games are just as big as playoff games, but playoff games are absolutely bigger than your average regular season matchup. Sure, you have to win in the regular season to get to the playoffs, but once you're in, those 1 game elimination games become more important than anything else. Not many single regular season games dictate what a single playoff game does. It's the same thing as once you make the Super Bowl, that becomes the biggest game of the year and the playoff games were just a stepping stone. Playing well in the regular season < playing well in the WC/DIV/CONF rounds < playing well in the SB. You need to play well in all of them, but 1 immediately becomes MUCH more important than the other as you go through the process. I don't know how or why anyone would argue otherwise.

2. I'm not even sure if I know what you're trying to say here. Do you know what the word relevant means? I'm going to guess that you're trying to say "You'd have to be superstitious to believe that winning a playoff game is more important than winning in the regular season." If that's what you meant, check my answer to #1.

3. I think EVERY Bengals fan except for you and a very small handful of other like-minded individuals will say that way, actually. Do we all want a championship? Absolutely! Is a playoff win a step in the right direction and a "baby step" to a potential title? It definitely is, and you're just using some absurd logic if you disagree with that.

4. So you just completely contradict your third point with the first sentence of the fourth, but then go on to say that we're in the same position as the other 30 (not 31) teams that didn't win the Super Bowl. Interesting theory, but you're wrong again. Being a perennial playoff contender and winning in the postseason changes more than you're willing to admit. Just for starters, your city becomes more desirable to some of the better veteran free agents that are trying to win a title. If the Patriots and Raiders offer an All-Pro vet the same contract, they may choose the Patriots to try and win a championship. Every FA is different, some are looking for warm weather, some want to be around their family, some just seek the absolute most cash. It's just 1 example of how being a playoff contender can absolutely be much different than being a bottom of the barrel team.

5. There aren't many people that fit in the whole "accepting mediocrity" line that people throw around. There are a couple of guys that will be happy and try to turn everything positive even if we go 0-16, but I don't think there's enough of them, especially on the new board to warrant this statement being thrown around right now. It's sort of silly.

My lord, what a ramble.

I don't need to keep re-emphasizing my point. I don't think playoff wins are as relevant as people propel them up to be. It's a narrative to exclude the Bengals when talking about exceptional organizations. That's it.

Importance of a game does not indicate whether or not a team is capable of winning said game, they're just games that are more important.

All 16 games are important in the NFL. In fact, I would argue that they are MORE important then playoff games, since playoff games come as a result of doing well in the first 16 games primarily.

I spit in your general direction, sir.

(07-09-2015, 10:16 AM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: All 16 games are important in the NFL. In fact, I would argue that they are MORE important then playoff games, since playoff games come as a result of doing well in the first 16 games primarily.

I spit in your general direction, sir.

With your (awful) logic, that would mean playoff games are MORE important than the Super Bowl, since the Super Bowl comes as a result of doing well in the playoff games.

I wank in your general direction, ma'am.