(07-10-2015, 02:12 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Only one 43 defensive end had less total pressures per snap than Geathers, and had 100 less pass rushing snaps also.

How many names are on that list?

(07-10-2015, 02:09 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: His run defense was bottom third of the league..

Out of how many DEs?

(07-10-2015, 02:07 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And Geathers has proven he's possibly the worst DE in the NFL over the last few years. 

Let me guess.  According to PFF, right?

The same PFF who claims back up Kawann Short and Karl Klug are the 13th and 14th best DTs in the entire league?

Geathers really struggled last year, but before that he has been a key part of one of the best D-lines in the league.  If he was the worst in the league he would have not been able to set the edge and teams would have gashed us for long runs outside the tackle.  But that just did not happen.

(07-10-2015, 02:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me guess.  According to PFF, right?

The same PFF who claims back up Kawann Short and Karl Klug are the 13th and 14th best DTs in the entire league?

Geathers really struggled last year, but before that he has been a key part of one of the best D-lines in the league.  If he was the worst in the league he would have not been able to set the edge and teams would have gashed us for long runs outside the tackle.  But that just did not happen.

You make that sound like it's ridiculous.

Karl Klug is 34 DE, amd he wasn't ranked that.

Kawaan Short was ranked 9th anyways and had a great year, so....

I remember when Geathers could set an edge.

(07-10-2015, 02:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How many names are on that list?

36 for players who played at least 50% of pass rushing snaps, the ones you can actually measure for performance because they actually played.

Luckily Geathers wasn't on the field that much when they ran, only playing 156 run snaps, and finished 39th out of 55 in stops per run snap.

(07-10-2015, 12:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I thought you said proven.

Which one is more proven?

Geathers has proven to be awful. If you can't be Geathers then your awful.

(07-10-2015, 02:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me guess.  According to PFF, right?

The same PFF who claims back up Kawann Short and Karl Klug are the 13th and 14th best DTs in the entire league?

Geathers really struggled last year, but before that he has been a key part of one of the best D-lines in the league.  If he was the worst in the league he would have not been able to set the edge and teams would have gashed us for long runs outside the tackle.  But that just did not happen.

Let's get the fred checklist out.

1. Blindly defend a bad player who is/was on the Bengals (check)
2. Make irrational claims with 0 proof (check)
3. Discredit others proof by either making up random shit or using incorrect/outdated data (double check) 

As for Klug, yeah It happens (in 2013, not 2014 when he was ranked 24th at DE). Some times average players like Klug have above average years. 
Maybe you just aren't as "up" on things as you like to think you are and don't realize that Kawaan Short is actually a really good football player. 
I'm gonna start calling you Skinner. Because it's not you that's wrong. It must be the young people and their players with names I don't recognize! 

(07-10-2015, 02:17 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You "two" again.

Balls deep worried on who agrees with whom? 

(07-10-2015, 12:14 PM)J24 Wrote: Geathers has proven to be awful. If you can't be Geathers then your awful.

And lots of good NFL players were aweful when they were rookies.

(07-10-2015, 12:58 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Let's get the fred checklist out.

1. Blindly defend a bad player who is/was on the Bengals (check)
2. Make irrational claims with 0 proof (check)
3. Discredit others proof by either making up random shit or using incorrect/outdated data (double check) 

I made very logical arguments.

Since you have the endless access to stats please tell everyone.  If you have the worst RDE in the league with a 2nd string LB playing behind him you don't finish 3rd in the league in fewest runs of 20+ allowed.  You get gashed off the edge and give up a lot of long runs.

(07-10-2015, 08:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I made very logical arguments.

Since you have the endless access to stats please tell everyone.  If you have the worst RDE in the league with a 2nd string LB playing behind him you don't finish 3rd in the league in fewest runs of 20+ allowed.  You get gashed off the edge and give up a lot of long runs.

Well let's start debunking another misinformation fred post with the whole 2nd string LB nonsense. 
Lamur was the starting SLB. The same side as Geathers got most of his snaps. Hunt plays exclusively from LDE spot with Dunlap. Where do you think Geathers got his playing most of his snaps? I'm still looking for the pass rush snap break down, but 80% of Geathers' pass rush snaps came from the right side (no back up on that side) 
Geathers played 640 snaps.  (189) 
Dunlap played 1026 snaps. (394) 
Gilberry played 901. (336) 
(run snaps)

Now, getting gashed off the edge is one way to get a big run. But hardly the only way. Geathers saw 189 run plays. Our LBs were pretty decent tacklers. Not too mention our DBs are probably towards the top of the league in tackling ability. That's how. Your 20+ designation is just a random bullshit number you pulled out of your ass to make it look good. Fred, we were 8th worst in allowing opponents to rush for a first down. We gave up the 9th most first downs rushing. Big runs like 20+ and 40+ are generally more indicative of how your LBs and DBs play than your DL. But I'd bet deep down you know that. 

What has your "logical" argument been? other than "Nuh uh" that is.....

You will probably post outdated or misleading stats again. Or claim that a very good player isn't good again because you don't know what you are talking about. 

(07-10-2015, 10:09 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote:  Your 20+ designation is just a random bullshit number you pulled out of your ass to make it look good.

According to NFL.com only the Packers, Patriots, and Vikings allowed fewer runs of 20+ yards than the Bengals (7). I can't believe you would be so stupid to try and call me out on something I could prove so easily.

Now lets see the links to all the stats you have cited.

(07-10-2015, 10:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to NFL.com only the Packers, Patriots, and Vikings allowed fewer runs of 20+ yards than the Bengals (7).

 I can't believe you would be so stupid to try and call me out on something I could prove so easily.

Now lets see the links to all the stats you have cited.

I know you got the stat from NFL.com. 

The point is, using 20+ runs to say that a backup DE with under 200 run snaps last year was good is an arbitrary designation you pulled out of your ass because it's a good lookin stat. 
I see you ignored every other point I made, because your usual "nuh uh" bullshit won't fly. 

Mine came from NFL.com too genius. But they don't put the Bengals in a pretty light. So defend, our little blind defender...defend your heart away. 

(07-10-2015, 10:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is correct, and I actually knew better.  Don't know what I was thinking.

You were trying too hard to prove a flawed point. That literally destroys the rest of your argument. 

(07-10-2015, 02:09 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: His run defense was bottom third of the league...

(07-10-2015, 10:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Mine came from NFL.com too genius. 

NFL.com link that shows Geathers is bottom third in the league in run defense.

Also link from NFL.com showing how many run snaps he played.

(07-10-2015, 10:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I see you ignored every other point I made, because your usual "nuh uh" bullshit won't fly. 

Your only other point that I could see was that he was not very effective in rushing the passer.

That does not prove he was the worst DE in the league.  Not even close.

(07-10-2015, 10:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your only other point that I could see was that he was not very effective in rushing the passer.

That does not prove he was the worst DE in the league.  Not even close.

I'll settle for top 5 worst if that appeases, though, it'll be tough to find 4 others, believe me.

(07-10-2015, 10:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It does not destroy my argument at all.  Lamur was not known as being particularly effective at stopping thr urn.

Geathers played in front of the WLB, not SLB when he was at RE the majority of the time.

(07-10-2015, 10:50 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Geathers played in front of the WLB, not SLB when he was at RE the majority of the time.

I have gotten myself all confused.

I was right the first time and Royal was wrong.

RE plays in front of the WOLB.  So Geathers did have a back up LB playing behind him most of the year.

(07-10-2015, 10:49 PM)Stormborn Wrote: I'll settle for top 5 worst if that appeases, though, it'll be tough to find 4 others, believe me.

You do realize that there were probably over 130 DEs on NFL rosters last year, right?