Let me first say, i was on the front lines, with my bull horn, screaming about how pathetic they were. Then i rewatched the game today when i got home. Every offensive play, frame by frame to find the breakdowns. 

Guys are going to get beat on occasion. That's a given. With that said, here is what i saw. 

1. Ced Ob, much more than anyone, missed a pickup or simply couldn't contain his block long enough to give the RB time to do something. 
2. TEs and WRs on the end of the line were very porous--much much more so than the 5 guys up front. 
3. Jeremy Hill missed many opportunities when there was real estate to the left or right. He had a tendency to run straight ahead into a pile when a cut either way would have given him some room...which brings me to this point; i really wonder if Hill even has the ability to be a one cut back. 

The Oline has had heaps of criticism dumped on their heads recently (this year and last) but when i went back and focused on their play and not my gut reaction while watching the game, i was very surprised in what i saw. Several holes were there for bigger gains and missed. I'd say there were more opportunities missed than there were missed blocks by a C, OG or OT. 

I know this thread won't be received well, or flat out ignored, but you can't deny what is there on tape when you look a little closer. 

(09-30-2016, 08:44 PM)arfaulk34 Wrote: 3. Jeremy Hill missed many opportunities when there was real estate to the left or right. He had a tendency to run straight ahead into a pile when a cut either way would have given him some room...which brings me to this point; i really wonder if Hill even has the ability to be a one cut back. 

I remember as a child asking my father why the RB would always run into the backs of the linemen instead of running to where there were no people.  As he poignantly pointed out, that is where the play is designed to go, so he must have faith that the guys up front will open the hole for him.  If he doesn't, the play is destined to fail before it begins.

But it seems to me that Bernard is suffering the same fate, with even less results, so it again falls back to the o-line.

I do have to wonder what is going wrong when the running game is stalling. Apparently we have good backs and a good o-line but they haven't produced in a while.

(09-30-2016, 08:54 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I remember as a child asking my father why the RB would always run into the backs of the linemen instead of running to where there were no people.  As he poignantly pointed out, that is where the play is designed to go, so he must have faith that the guys up front will open the hole for him.  If he doesn't, the play is destined to fail before it begins.

But it seems to me that Bernard is suffering the same fate, with even less results, so it again falls back to the o-line.

I don't subscribe to that theory, only because running plays aren't always designed for one hole and when a defender does his job, it's up to the running back to adjust and make a play. 

Our good friend Ickey Woods was a master at the cut back run. I don't know too many people that would say the Bengals Oline was terrible back then. 

(09-30-2016, 08:59 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I do have to wonder what is going wrong when the running game is stalling. Apparently we have good backs and a good o-line but they haven't produced in a while.

1. TE and WR blocking on the end of the line
2. New RT
3. Run blitz pickup
4. Missed open lanes 

That's how i would rank the problems.

(09-30-2016, 09:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. TE and WR blocking on the end of the line
2. New RT
3. Run blitz pickup
4. Missed open lanes 

That's how i would rank the problems.

I'll have to take your word cause it sounds like you put in the study time.

In some ways cant Ogbuehi be having a rough transition because Zeitler isn't playing up to par? I cant say I've been watching Zeitler all the time so maybe I'm wrong or maybe he just sticks out because of the false starts.

(09-30-2016, 09:08 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I'll have to take your word cause it sounds like you put in the study time.

In some ways cant Ogbuehi be having a rough transition because Zeitler isn't playing up to par? I cant say I've been watching Zeitler all the time so maybe I'm wrong or maybe he just sticks out because of the false starts.

Zeitler and Boling both missed a couple times. But about what you'd expect from a typical player in a typical game. Biggest problem looked to be Og sustaining blocks.

He's young though so i'd look for improvement. 

Keep in mind, i'm just talking about the game last night.

(09-30-2016, 09:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Our good friend Ickey Woods was a master at the cut back run. 

So was Walter Peyton, Eric Dickerson, Emitt Smith and our own Corey Dillon.

(09-30-2016, 09:18 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: So was Walter Peyton, Eric Dickerson, Emitt Smith and our own Corey Dillon.

Yep. And i'm just not seeing it from Hill. 

(09-30-2016, 09:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. And i'm just not seeing it from Hill. 

And we may not. When he looks for holes he dances and shuffles, then he gets creamed for a loss almost every time. He's a downhill runner and for him, the line has to open the hole. Those RB's we mentioned had a gift of quick eye, body react movement. Not real sure it can be acquired. Might be one of those, "you either have it or you don't " type of situations. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. He's just not jaw dropping talent.

(09-30-2016, 09:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. TE and WR blocking on the end of the line
2. New RT
3. Run blitz pickup
4. Missed open lanes 

That's how i would rank the problems.

I was screaming at the TV when several (too many) times a Miami defender was on the edge and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY, even looked at him. The O player tried to block the inside defender every time. DUH!!! Needless to say the outside guy ran straight as an arrow to Dalton. This occurred on both ends of the O-line throughout the game. Isn't there a coach somewhere in Cincinnati who can coach these guys????????????????????????

(09-30-2016, 09:56 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: And we may not. When he looks for holes he dances and shuffles, then he gets creamed for a loss almost every time. He's a downhill runner and for him, the line has to open the hole. Those RB's we mentioned had a gift of quick eye, body react movement. Not real sure it can be acquired. Might be one of those, "you either have it or you don't " type of situations. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. He's just not jaw dropping talent.

I agree.

But having said that, none of this means Hill cannot be a super productive back. Hill plays too big to be a sort of one-cut, Arian Foster-type guy (which is what I initally expected out of him).

I expect 1,000 yard seasons from him, especially because he seems particularly durable (knock on wood). He also seems to have a knack for the endzone, which is a rare and sometimes underappreciated talent.

When Hill is on his game, he is a top ten running back. Will he be a hall of famer? I doubt it. But I believe he can be exactly the guy we need him to be for however long we need him to do it. Hill has my support.

(09-30-2016, 09:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 1. TE and WR blocking on the end of the line
2. New RT
3. Run blitz pickup
4. Missed open lanes 

That's how i would rank the problems.

You missed Russell Bodine.....although yesterday was easily his best performance of the year.

(09-30-2016, 09:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. And i'm just not seeing it from Hill. 

The times I remember seeing him do it were in the red zone many for touchdowns.

(09-30-2016, 09:56 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: And we may not. When he looks for holes he dances and shuffles, then he gets creamed for a loss almost every time. He's a downhill runner and for him, the line has to open the hole. Those RB's we mentioned had a gift of quick eye, body react movement. Not real sure it can be acquired. Might be one of those, "you either have it or you don't " type of situations. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. He's just not jaw dropping talent.

Could very well be or.....could be he's so used to guys being there with him to take the handoff with him....he seeks the LOS first and then goes from there to minimize losses    

(09-30-2016, 10:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: You missed Russell Bodine.....although yesterday was easily his best performance of the year.

Yeah, he played well yesterday. That's why i didn't mention him. 

I was actually happy to see Hill run between the linemen/through the designated holes rather than trying to scat around like he did in games one and two. 4 yards per grinding it out until you break one is way better than trying to be a pretty boy when you are not.

One thing i completely forgot to mention (i was reminded from a comment in another thread), on a couple of occasions, Zeitler pulled left and was slow to get to the point of attack and compounded that by whiffing on his block. 

The Bengals have always been a stronger pull team to the right and for the life of me, i don't understand why they don't do it more. 

(09-30-2016, 08:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Let me first say, i was on the front lines, with my bull horn, screaming about how pathetic they were. Then i rewatched the game today when i got home. Every offensive play, frame by frame to find the breakdowns. 

Guys are going to get beat on occasion. That's a given. With that said, here is what i saw. 

1. Ced Ob, much more than anyone, missed a pickup or simply couldn't contain his block long enough to give the RB time to do something. 
2. TEs and WRs on the end of the line were very porous--much much more so than the 5 guys up front. 
3. Jeremy Hill missed many opportunities when there was real estate to the left or right. He had a tendency to run straight ahead into a pile when a cut either way would have given him some room...which brings me to this point; i really wonder if Hill even has the ability to be a one cut back. 

The Oline has had heaps of criticism dumped on their heads recently (this year and last) but when i went back and focused on their play and not my gut reaction while watching the game, i was very surprised in what i saw. Several holes were there for bigger gains and missed. I'd say there were more opportunities missed than there were missed blocks by a C, OG or OT. 

I know this thread won't be received well, or flat out ignored, but you can't deny what is there on tape when you look a little closer. 

You made this after one game, this does not over write what happened the first three games. I will say this they will look much better after a few more games.

(09-30-2016, 08:54 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I remember as a child asking my father why the RB would always run into the backs of the linemen instead of running to where there were no people.  As he poignantly pointed out, that is where the play is designed to go, so he must have faith that the guys up front will open the hole for him.  If he doesn't, the play is destined to fail before it begins.

But it seems to me that Bernard is suffering the same fate, with even less results, so it again falls back to the o-line.

Could just be a vision thing.   The great running backs all were known for having great vision.  I have no real idea what is going on with Hill & Gio.   I don't know if there's not a hole , their unable to anticipate the hole or they just don't know what decision to make (go to daylight or wait for the O-lineman).

I will say that once they get in open space they both look really good.  I still feel that Hill goes down a little easy - but hey, if it keeps him from fumbling I'm OK with that.