A HC who has a total clown resume of ZERO playoff wins in 13 seasons...yeah I'm sure everything will work out great, and this will be the year (my eyes have rolled 180 degrees into the back of my skull)

And leading both sides of the ball we have two lazy hires, made more for the reason that they were already in town than that they were actually they very best choice.

We've got 10 mil + in cap space just sitting there, doing nothing, for about the 30th year in a row. That makes me feel appreciate of their efforts to get to the next level. After five straight first round exits, after letting Marvin Jones, Sanu and Reggie Nelson walk, and with ample cap space, with spent a grand total of 4.5 million dollars on outside help. Total = 4.5 million. On two deals, both for only one season, and with only 1.7 million guaranteed.

Just for perspective, the Titans gave Rishard Matthews (a near nobody) almost 4 times this amount. Ladarius Green, another nobody, got almost five times this amount. Single players, who aren't at all big names, signed contracts that more than tripled what we spent total on outside free agents.

Does this seem like a team that wants to win now? Does this sound like a team that tried to improve this offseason?

What's almost maddening is how quick they were to give Shawn Williams a new deal. Kid had four starts and was locked for another season, yet they couldn't wait to give him 20 mil. Guy makes almost as much as TJ Ward. After 4 starts. So it's not as if they have no money, or refuse to spend. They just refuse to spend it on outside players who can actually improve this team immediately.

You know that new scoreboard and weight room everyone keeps referencing? You taxpayers footed the bill for about 85% of that. That's after the half BILLION you shelled out for the stadium. And even thought Bengals make 10 times the money the Reds do, they contributed a fraction of what the Reds just did for their upgrades. Same deals, same lease. The Reds elected to absorb much more of the costs, even though they didn't have to.

I could go on and on. But that's enough for now. We all know they did nothing to get better this season, and we all know Marvin should have been canned years ago. If there is any hope for this actually competing for a ring then they need to clean house after this season. Let the new coach have complete control over his staff. And spend the money available to you.

I'd personally would rather try something else to give us a chance to get better, and ultimately fair, then to do absolutely nothing, and accept the fact that we have zero chance at ever winning a ring under this coach, with this approach to building a team.

Sunday could be all sorts of ugly. Get ya pitchforks ready...

You could have said all this in 4 sentences. Instead you post an article no one wants to read.

Sell this to bleacher report. You do realize they pay people to write this stuff.

Or how about a " too long; didn't read" which means you post your story then put cliff notes at the end summarizing your points

have a nice time with whatever new team you decide to root for..

I like your posts,I don't know why they are hating. I'm was blown away on the Shawn Williams thing myself. I also thought we just disrespected Nelson. Even after the draft, we could of got him here. Nope everyone said it's time to move on.

(10-11-2016, 04:01 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: You could have said all this in 4 sentences. Instead you post an article no one wants to read.

Sell this to bleacher report. You do realize they pay people to write this stuff.

Or how about a " too long; didn't read" which means you post your story then put cliff notes at the end summarizing your points

This is much better and more thought provoking than some 7 word quip that passes for commentary in twitterland.

As a relatively neutral poster on the homer-hater scale, I can definitely understand how Dallas was the last straw (for the umpteenth time) for many people. It is for me to a large degree. How am I supposed to care about a bunch of players who obviously don't care? Why would I invest myself into the team if the very players themselves aren't going to invest themselves in the team? And when you think about it, getting the players to buy in is the Head Coach's job. So I completely understand where you're coming from Toast.

(10-11-2016, 07:29 AM)treee Wrote: As a relatively neutral poster on the homer-hater scale, I can definitely understand how Dallas was the last straw (for the umpteenth time) for many people. It is for me to a large degree. How am I supposed to care about a bunch of players who obviously don't care? Why would I invest myself into the team if the very players themselves aren't going to invest themselves in the team? And when you think about it, getting the players to buy in is the Head Coach's job. So I completely understand where you're coming from Toast.

Post of the Year

(10-11-2016, 03:05 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:

A HC who has a total clown resume of ZERO playoff wins in 13 seasons...yeah I'm sure everything will work out great, and this will be the year (my eyes have rolled 180 degrees into the back of my skull)  

And leading both sides of the ball we have two lazy hires, made more for the reason that they were already in town than that they were actually they very best choice.

We've got 10 mil + in cap space just sitting there, doing nothing, for about the 30th year in a row.  That makes me feel appreciate of their efforts to get to the next level.  After five straight first round exits, after letting Marvin Jones, Sanu and Reggie Nelson walk, and with ample cap space, with spent a grand total of 4.5 million dollars on outside help.  Total = 4.5 million.  On two deals, both for only one season, and with only 1.7 million guaranteed.  

Just for perspective, the Titans gave Rishard Matthews (a near nobody) almost 4 times this amount.  Ladarius Green, another nobody, got almost five times this amount.  Single players, who aren't at all big names, signed contracts that more than tripled what we spent total on outside free agents.

Does this seem like a team that wants to win now?  Does this sound like a team that tried to improve this offseason?

What's almost maddening is how quick they were to give Shawn Williams a new deal.  Kid had four starts and was locked for another season, yet they couldn't wait to give him 20 mil.  Guy makes almost as much as TJ Ward.  After 4 starts.  So it's not as if they have no money, or refuse to spend.  They just refuse to spend it on outside players who can actually improve this team immediately.

You know that new scoreboard and weight room everyone keeps referencing?  You taxpayers footed the bill for about 85% of that.  That's after the half BILLION you shelled out for the stadium.  And even thought Bengals make 10 times the money the Reds do, they contributed a fraction of what the Reds just did for their upgrades.  Same deals, same lease.  The Reds elected to absorb much more of the costs, even though they didn't have to.

I could go on and on.  But that's enough for now.  We all know they did nothing to get better this season, and we all know Marvin should have been canned years ago.  If there is any hope for this actually competing for a ring then they need to clean house after this season.  Let the new coach have complete control over his staff.  And spend the money available to you.

I'd personally would rather try something else to give us a chance to get better, and ultimately fair, then to do absolutely nothing, and accept the fact that we have zero chance at ever winning a ring under this coach, with this approach to building a team.

Sunday could be all sorts of ugly.  Get ya pitchforks ready...

I agree with some of what you wrote.

However, it amazes me you don't hold any players accountable to produce. It is all on MB and ML in your  world

(10-11-2016, 04:01 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: You could have said all this in 4 sentences. Instead you post an article no one wants to read.

Sooooo your saying you want Wes Mantooth to create more threads with rich content like this one because you can't get enough?

(10-11-2016, 10:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with some of what you wrote.

However, it amazes me you don't hold any players accountable to produce. It is all on MB and ML in your  world

This is an interesting point. 

We have relatively the same players that we had last year minus a few rotation players and our second best wide receiver from a year ago. These players were not adequately replaced which falls directly on the front office. 

Also, the coaching staff has changed from last year. Vance Joseph and Hugh Jackson are gone. Thats the biggest difference between this year and last year. 

So this kind of falls directly on the FO and coaching staff. 

(10-11-2016, 03:05 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:

A HC who has a total clown resume of ZERO playoff wins in 13 seasons...yeah I'm sure everything will work out great, and this will be the year (my eyes have rolled 180 degrees into the back of my skull)  

And leading both sides of the ball we have two lazy hires, made more for the reason that they were already in town than that they were actually they very best choice.

We've got 10 mil + in cap space just sitting there, doing nothing, for about the 30th year in a row.  That makes me feel appreciate of their efforts to get to the next level.  After five straight first round exits, after letting Marvin Jones, Sanu and Reggie Nelson walk, and with ample cap space, with spent a grand total of 4.5 million dollars on outside help.  Total = 4.5 million.  On two deals, both for only one season, and with only 1.7 million guaranteed.  

Just for perspective, the Titans gave Rishard Matthews (a near nobody) almost 4 times this amount.  Ladarius Green, another nobody, got almost five times this amount.  Single players, who aren't at all big names, signed contracts that more than tripled what we spent total on outside free agents.

Does this seem like a team that wants to win now?  Does this sound like a team that tried to improve this offseason?

What's almost maddening is how quick they were to give Shawn Williams a new deal.  Kid had four starts and was locked for another season, yet they couldn't wait to give him 20 mil.  Guy makes almost as much as TJ Ward.  After 4 starts.  So it's not as if they have no money, or refuse to spend.  They just refuse to spend it on outside players who can actually improve this team immediately.

You know that new scoreboard and weight room everyone keeps referencing?  You taxpayers footed the bill for about 85% of that.  That's after the half BILLION you shelled out for the stadium.  And even thought Bengals make 10 times the money the Reds do, they contributed a fraction of what the Reds just did for their upgrades.  Same deals, same lease.  The Reds elected to absorb much more of the costs, even though they didn't have to.

I could go on and on.  But that's enough for now.  We all know they did nothing to get better this season, and we all know Marvin should have been canned years ago.  If there is any hope for this actually competing for a ring then they need to clean house after this season.  Let the new coach have complete control over his staff.  And spend the money available to you.

I'd personally would rather try something else to give us a chance to get better, and ultimately fair, then to do absolutely nothing, and accept the fact that we have zero chance at ever winning a ring under this coach, with this approach to building a team.

Sunday could be all sorts of ugly.  Get ya pitchforks ready...

I agree with much of what you said.  I've given up any thought of the Bengals being players in free agency.  It just seems to go against everything Mike Brown believes in.

I really did not understand the Shawn Williams deal.  $20 million for a guy with only a couple starts and not much playing time overall.  At the time the argument from many was "the coaches see him in practice, they know he's ready to go".  I'm not so sure about that now because he does not look very good on the field.

I sometimes think this team puts too much emphasis on not having turnover.  We hear "he knows the playbook, he is familiar with the system".  Those are good things, but they don't trump talent.  We even hear it with draft picks.  "You can't expect a guy to just come in and contribute right away", but we see that every day on other teams.  I've often wondered if the system is really that intricate, that detailed, that a guy who has played football his entire life can't learn it in an off season?

(10-11-2016, 10:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with some of what you wrote.

However, it amazes me you don't hold any players accountable to produce. It is all on MB and ML in your  world

You can't argue that through all the change players and personnel there have two individuals who have been here the whole time. It's hard not to put it on them.

There's the Toast Jones we all knew from the old boards.

Yea, it's always a tough balancing act in deciding whether the players or coaches should shoulder the majority of the responsibility for failure. For me I place a whole helluva lot on Marvin's head. Why? Simple. He has been the HC for 13 seasons through two different era's in QB's (Palmer, Dalton) and in overall superstar talent (Chad, AJ), and has wasted almost all of it. His body of work is abysmal in contests that actually mean something and are played on big, national stages.

Do the players need to be held accountable? Hell yes. Blocks and tackles get missed, passes dropped, coverage's blown etc., but the onus lies mostly with the HC who has done jack-sh*t in 13+ seasons as opposed to the players with a handful of seasons under their belt. I have infinitely more confidence in the players correcting their issues week to week, season to season, than I do Marvin ever getting his crap together.

(10-11-2016, 04:01 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: You could have said all this in 4 sentences. Instead you post an article no one wants to read.

Sell this to bleacher report. You do realize they pay people to write this stuff.

Or how about a " too long; didn't read" which means you post your story then put cliff notes at the end summarizing your points

Bro, it all of about 150 words.  Quit pretending like it's the length of the post, and not the content, that has left your butt hurting.

A tl;dr of "Marvin sucks, Mike sucks, we have no chance" does nothing to generate discussion.  If you don't like the thread then don't post in it.  Leave.  Because I can guarantee that no one wants to read you complaining about what you think others don't want to read.

PS: Yeah, I could have just written 4 sentences.  I also could have 4 pumped your mom.  But neither would lead to much satisfaction.

(10-11-2016, 10:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: However, it amazes me you don't hold any players accountable to produce. It is all on MB and ML in your  world

I don't hold the players accountable to produce?  Have you read my posts?  How many times did I rip Ced Benson, called Andre Smith Ton of Fun, called Andy "Noodles"?  You sure you don't have me confused with anyone else? 

Look, if you want to make the argument that the performance on the field is all on the players, and Marvin and Mike have nothing to do with it, then more power to you.  But to say I don't hold the players accountable is simply not true.

(10-11-2016, 10:14 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is an interesting point. 

We have relatively the same players that we had last year minus a few rotation players and our second best wide receiver from a year ago. These players were not adequately replaced which falls directly on the front office. 

Also, the coaching staff has changed from last year. Vance Joseph and Hugh Jackson are gone. Thats the biggest difference between this year and last year. 

So this kind of falls directly on the FO and coaching staff. 

Not only that.....but are we supposed to believe that out of all of these choke jobs, that we just continuously draft, sign, and trade for players that are ALL coincidentally choke artists?  TWICE?  Come on now......no one ever answers this question.

We've lost to 3 REALLY good teams that are arguably better than the Bengals. The 2 teams we beat aren't that good.

One of the WR's we lost is leading the NFL in receiving yards. Our roster has arguably declined...plus we lost the OC.

Our past 5 drafts haven't really produced many dominant players other than Eifert. Couple that with not signing many free agents...and you have a roster in decline.

Guys like MJ haven't been good. We're way worse at RT. Zeitler doesn't look good. We're worse at WR2/WR3.

What positions are we better at than we were last year?

(10-11-2016, 04:01 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: You could have said all this in 4 sentences. Instead you post an article no one wants to read.

Sell this to bleacher report. You do realize they pay people to write this stuff.

Or how about a " too long; didn't read" which means you post your story then put cliff notes at the end summarizing your points

I think Toast would be the first to admit that he tends to be long-winded, but I've always found his posts to be interesting, whether I agree with them or not.

Our lasts drafts haven't produced. THAT'S the hidden story.