I've been rewatching game after game and I can't believe how basic and predictable we've been on defense..This is the nfl people watched plenty of film om our tendencies the double a gap look is no longer fooling anybody,they've caught on to most of our zone concepts as evidence how ne exploited the backers Sunday...

We've gotta fine tune our pressure packages,show zero then overload one side I've seen the Vikings do that this season..more twists and stunts to help manufacture pressure and please on third and 18 from now on please just rush 3 and play it safe...

Our defense is built around the front 4 getting pressure. We don't really have good pass rushing LB's. We don't really have elite DB's.

When we don't get pressure on the QB from the front 4, things break down.

Peko doesn't get pressure. MJ really hasn't. Teams know they can double Atkins to take him out of games. Then that just leaves Dunlap.

(10-18-2016, 01:07 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I've been rewatching game after game and I can't believe how basic and predictable we've been on defense..This is the nfl people watched plenty of film om our tendencies the double a gap look is no longer fooling anybody,they've caught on to most of our zone concepts as evidence how ne exploited the backers Sunday...

We've gotta fine tune our pressure packages,show zero then overload one side I've seen the Vikings do that this season..more twists and stunts to help manufacture pressure and please on third and 18 from now on please just rush 3 and play it safe...

As far as coaching goes, I am a baseball guy, and have never coached or played a snap of organized football.

So let me throw this out there.  We have the same DC as we had last year.  I believe we had the number two defense as far as points allowed and was only 1 point away from the front runner?

If that's true, and we have the same DC, do we really believe that HE is the issue and not the fact that we have a few new faces from last year?  Gilberry, Lamur, and Nelson gone.  Hunt, Dansby, and Williams in place of???

(10-18-2016, 01:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our defense is built around the front 4 getting pressure. We don't really have good pass rushing LB's. We don't really have elite DB's.

When we don't get pressure on the QB from the front 4, things break down.

Peko doesn't get pressure. MJ really hasn't. Teams know they can double Atkins to take him out of games. Then that just leaves Dunlap.

Zim tinkered his scheme around that on plenty of occasions it's called adjustments sometimes you gotta make pressure packages your gameplan sometimes rushing four and playing zone,and sometimes just matching personnel and playing man either way you gotta gameplan every team different can't employ the same strategy everyweek is all I'm saying 

(10-18-2016, 01:21 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: As far as coaching goes, I am a baseball guy, and have never coached or played a snap of organized football.

So let me throw this out there.  We have the same DC as we had last year.  I believe we had the number two defense as far as points allowed and was only 1 point away from the front runner?

If that's true, and we have the same DC, do we really believe that HE is the issue and not the fact that we have a few new faces from last year?  Gilberry, Lamur, and Nelson gone.  Hunt, Dansby, and Williams in place of???

In Zimmers third season as Bengals DC we finished 15th in defense.

This year in Guenthers third season as Bengals DC we are ranked 15th.

(10-18-2016, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In Zimmers third season as Bengals DC we finished 15th in defense.

This year in Guenthers third season as Bengals DC we are ranked 15th.

Meaning what keep being predictable and not making adjustments and just rushing four while teams move up and down the field at will?or actually making the proper adjustments from a scheme standpoint to try to fool or outsmart the offense?

(10-18-2016, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In Zimmers third season as Bengals DC we finished 15th in defense.

This year in Guenthers third season as Bengals DC we are ranked 15th.

Geathers v Dunlap - Dunlap
Mj v mj - wash
Pat sims v Atkins- Atkins
Peko v peko - wash
Dhani v Burfict - burfict
Rey m v Rey m - wash
Keith rivers v Dansby - wash
Jjo v jones - wash
Hall v Kirk- hall
Roy Williams v Shawn Williams.....
Crocker v iloka - iloka



The talent disparity is real Fred.  Zimmer took mostly garbage outside of our CB's and made them mediocre.  Over a couple of seasons Zimmer had them at a top 5 defense.  Paul G has turned a top 5 defense into mediocre with unquestionably more talent. 

Please don't compare the two teams.

(10-18-2016, 02:31 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Geathers v Dunlap - Dunlap
Mj v mj - wash
Pat sims v Atkins- Atkins
Peko v peko - wash
Dhani v Burfict - burfict
Rey m v Rey m - wash
Keith rivers v Dansby - wash
Jjo v jones - wash
Hall v Kirk- hall
Roy Williams v Shawn Williams.....
Crocker v iloka - iloka



The talent disparity is real Fred.  Zimmer took mostly garbage outside of our CB's and made them mediocre.  Over a couple of seasons Zimmer had them at a top 5 defense.  Paul G has turned a top 5 defense into mediocre with unquestionably more talent. 

Please don't compare the two teams.

Oh but he will.....pesky facts be damned!

Its basically an average to below average defense right now, 15th in yards & 20th in points given up. 17th in takeaways with 7 (league average is 7.9).

To be fair, I think the defense has dropped off a bit this year in talent and leadership with Nelson and Leon leaving respectively. And the recent drafts last few years isnt exactly helping much either.

(10-18-2016, 02:31 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Geathers v Dunlap - Dunlap
Mj v mj - wash
Pat sims v Atkins- Atkins
Peko v peko - wash
Dhani v Burfict - burfict
Rey m v Rey m - wash
Keith rivers v Dansby - wash
Jjo v jones - wash
Hall v Kirk- hall
Roy Williams v Shawn Williams.....
Crocker v iloka - iloka



The talent disparity is real Fred.  Zimmer took mostly garbage outside of our CB's and made them mediocre.  Over a couple of seasons Zimmer had them at a top 5 defense.  Paul G has turned a top 5 defense into mediocre with unquestionably more talent. 

Please don't compare the two teams.

You could've put Crocker vs Parking Cone and the Cone would easily look more fluid and have better instincts than whatever Crocker did out there.

But absolutely the pieces Paul has are of better quality than what Zimmer had in his early years in Cincy.  I'm glad you posted this because I was much too tired to point this out to the guy.

(10-18-2016, 02:31 PM)Bengalbug Wrote:  Zimmer took mostly garbage outside of our CB's and made them mediocre.  Over a couple of seasons Zimmer had them at a top 5 defense.  Paul G has turned a top 5 defense into mediocre with unquestionably more talent. 

Zimmer took a unit that was ranked number 4 in the league in '09 and turned them into a mediocre defense ranked 15rh in '10.

Guenther had the Bengals ranked #11 last year.

Both coaches had up and down seasons based on different talent and opponents.  Guenther was a good DC last year.  He knows his football.  In fact Zimmer wanted Pauley to be his DC with the Vikings.  It is crazy to act like he suddenly forgot everything he knows about NFL defense.

Have you seen a Minnesota game this year? The Z-Fense is alive and well and wearing purple.

(10-18-2016, 02:56 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Have you seen a Minnesota game this year?  The Z-Fense is alive and well and wearing purple.

Yep, the Vikings' defense is filthy (for those old farts out there filthy means really good).

(10-18-2016, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Zimmer took a unit that was ranked number 4 in the league in '09 and turned them into a mediocre defense ranked 15rh in '10.

Guenther had the Bengals ranked #11 last year.

Both coaches had up and down seasons based on different talent and opponents.  Guenther was a good DC last year.  He knows his football.  In fact Zimmer wanted Pauley to be his DC with the Vikings.  It is crazy to act like he suddenly forgot everything he knows about NFL defense.

Even more of a testament to Zimmer.  I could expect up and down seasons with trash but when you return 5 players that played at a pro-bowl/all pro level it is absolutely inexcusable!!!!!! 

In case you wonder whom I am talking about:
Dunlap
Atkins
Burfict
Adam jones
Iloka

literally half the D played at a pro bowl level last year (and not by name recognition) Paul G sucks.  Maybe his players haven't bought in to vanilla yet, but that still falls on coaching.  Look at what the bills have done with a different OC (and without their best WR!) 

Stop with comparing Paul g to Zimmer BS, it isn't even close.  In fact I would go on a limb to say bengals D could be best in the league if Zimmer was here.  What he is doing in minn is amazing.  It has nothing to do with talent.  They play disciplined football, stay in lanes, wrap up, know assignments.  Good things happen when you play fundamental football.  Once you get he fundamentals down, then you can throw in the creative
Blitzes and plays.  Unfortunately it seems the bengals have forgot how to tackle, stay home, and play intelligent d.  Once we do anything creative you see missed assignments and walk in touchdowns.

Can this be corrected still, I hope so but it falls even more on the leaders of our D. Bengals need help coaching up players at this point.


I'm done in this thread.  

That's the problem we're just to Damn vanilla we only bring pressure 19% of the time which is currently good for 27th in the nfl and 75% of our blitzes came on third down pff how predictable Is that?we need more exotic pressure packages on earlier downs without the double a gap look I think the league has caught on to that scheme from us

Definately need to improve on Defense if we are going to make a run at the Playoffs.

I still remember that Broncos game two years ago where Paulie confused Peyton Manning.

I want to see some of that again.

(10-18-2016, 03:30 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: That's the problem we're just to Damn vanilla we only bring pressure 19% of the time which is currently good for 27th in the nfl and 75% of our blitzes came on third down pff how predictable Is that?we need more exotic pressure packages on earlier downs without the double a gap look I think the league has caught on to that scheme from us

While I agree that conceptually we need to blitz...we haven't had good pass rushing LB's in years...so then you have to safety blitz and put CB's in man coverage. That leads to huge plays if you don't get there.

The front 4 alone is not getting pressure on the QB.

It would be so awesome if we drafted a LB capable of getting 10 sacks a year.

We definitely need a somebody who can get more pressure than m.j has given us

(10-18-2016, 04:17 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: We definitely need a somebody who can get more pressure than m.j has given us

Hell, he's on the bench.  From my vantage point, Clarke has outproduced him in limited action.

(10-18-2016, 01:21 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: So let me throw this out there.  We have the same DC as we had last year.  I believe we had the number two defense as far as points allowed and was only 1 point away from the front runner?

If that's true, and we have the same DC, do we really believe that HE is the issue and not the fact that we have a few new faces from last year?  Gilberry, Lamur, and Nelson gone.  Hunt, Dansby, and Williams in place of???

Gilberry is available if we want him back. I'll absolutely agree that losing Nelson was a huge blow and we were foolish to let it happen. 

I think the play has been sloppy and undisciplined. Tackles are missed. Dumb penalties. A lack of fire from the DC on the sidelines. Last year we might've had some carryover from the Zim years. Now players are really taken cues both explicit and implicit from Guenther and the fact is, he's uninspiring and unimpressive.