(10-18-2016, 06:44 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I normally agree with you Shake, but with Gio you have to worry about his pass catching ability. Gio is currently our #3 I'm yards in receiving and he has the 2nd most total yards on the team. Now I don't think Gio should be in all the time. I still like Hill on goal line and short yardages, and to give Gio a break. But overall I feel like the offense moves better with Gio in.

But to your main point.... You're right that Gio vs Hill isn't very important compaired to the blocking issue. I think it's 1) playcalling/coaching, 2) OL, 3) lack of a high caliber #2 option (Eifert) 4) Having the right RB in the right situation.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Gio brings so much more to this offense than Hill and deserves the majority of snaps. Plus, he is a better pass blocker than Hill. 

(10-18-2016, 04:42 AM)ah5 Wrote: Add receiving yards to that... Gio is better than hill in most scenarios that don't involve the red zone. 

I knew people would bring up receiving, but that has nothing to do with running the football, and that's where people are knocking Hill. Fact is, Gio is no better at running the football than Hill. There is no debating that. Now if yall want to discuss catching the football, fine. Gio is clearly superior to Hill in that category. Always has been. That doesn't answer why Gio is averaging 3.4 YPC though.

For the record, I'd rather see Gio starting as well, but if people expect that to somehow fix the run game, your going to be disappointed. I get that a lot of folks have a genuine dislike for Hill and want to see the more well-liked player getting the snaps, but Hill is not the problem with the run game.

Jeremy Hill is still on pace to surpass BJGE's production when Bernard was a rookie, so there's that at least...?

2013 BJGE: 756 ruYd (3.4 YPC), 7 ruTD, 22 recYd, 0 recTD = 778 totYds, 7 TDs
projected 2016 Hill: 722 ruYd (3.6 YPC), 8 ruTD, 106 recYd, 0 recTD = 828 totYds, 8 TDs

(10-18-2016, 01:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I knew people would bring up receiving, but that has nothing to do with running the football, and that's where people are knocking Hill. Fact is, Gio is no better at running the football than Hill. There is no debating that. Now if yall want to discuss catching the football, fine. Gio is clearly superior to Hill in that category. Always has been. That doesn't answer why Gio is averaging 3.4 YPC though.

For the record, I'd rather see Gio starting as well, but if people expect that to somehow fix the run game, your going to be disappointed. I get that a lot of folks have a genuine dislike for Hill and want to see the more well-liked player getting the snaps, but Hill is not the problem with the run game.

I thought it was who is better in the offense. Hill or Gio. Gio is better. 

(10-18-2016, 02:30 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I thought it was who is better in the offense. Hill or Gio. Gio is better. 

Imo, the biggest problems with the offense are:

1. Red zone offense
2. Run blocking
3. Pass blocking

I just don't see "more Gio, less Hill" fixing any of those problems. It certainly didn't help last Sunday, when Gio saw more touches and snaps than Hill.

(10-18-2016, 04:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Imo, the biggest problems with the offense are:

1. Red zone offense
2. Run blocking
3. Pass blocking

I just don't see "more Gio, less Hill" fixing any of those problems. It certainly didn't help last Sunday, when Gio saw more touches and snaps than Hill.

Coaching is the #1 problem for the whole team. On offense we have one of the worst play callers in the league. I was praying that Zampese would try a QB sneak or put Hill in or do a play action pass on the goal line and we put Gio in where everyone in the world knows its a run play because Peko is in there. We punt it on 4th down when there's 4 min left in the game and we need to score that drive to have a chance. I don't think we take shots in the end zone enough when we're around the 20 yard line. We used to do that all the time now we focus on getting the first down more. With the personnel that we have I would think that it would be a good idea to try that.

On defense it's mostly the penalties that are killing is right now. We have to clean that up ASAP, because it's literally costing us games. Under Marvin we have always been a team that gets a lot of penalties, and that's one thing that I never hear anyone talk about. We would have held Denver to almost no points but we extended a bunch of their drives and it resulted in points. The same thing happened vs NE too. It seems like people don't know what their job is in some points of the game too resulting in big plays givin up by the defense. The coaching is just horrendous in all aspects of our game right know. Even special teams isn't the same.

(10-18-2016, 04:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Imo, the biggest problems with the offense are:

1. Red zone offense
2. Run blocking
3. Pass blocking

I just don't see "more Gio, less Hill" fixing any of those problems. It certainly didn't help last Sunday, when Gio saw more touches and snaps than Hill.

Gio is much better at blocking and picking up the blitz.


Also, as for Red Zone, sure wouldn't mind some screens or something. Doesn't work if you're on the 3 or something, but might be worth a try on the 13.

Gio is criminally underutilized.

(10-18-2016, 07:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Gio is much better at blocking and picking up the blitz.


Also, as for Red Zone, sure wouldn't mind some screens or something. Doesn't work if you're on the 3 or something, but might be worth a try on the 13.

C'mon LL...this is a stretch and you know it. Our pass blocking isn't a RB problem. It's a Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi problem. Ultimately there is very little difference in Gio and Hill as far as blocking. I don't see Hill out there whiffing all the time.

As for RZ, Gio brings pass catching, but he can't pound it in like Hill can. That's been proven over a 3 year span. I definitely wouldn't mind a few more passes to Gio inside the 20 as he has the wiggle to make something happen (if he gets space...which he rarely does anymore...which is another scheme problem), but near the GL, I'd say Hill is more useful.

(10-18-2016, 04:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Imo, the biggest problems with the offense are:

1. Red zone offense
2. Run blocking
3. Pass blocking

I just don't see "more Gio, less Hill" fixing any of those problems. It certainly didn't help last Sunday, when Gio saw more touches and snaps than Hill.

Agree mostly,

But like Brownshoe says I'd put #1 problem as horrible coaching. Then your list

Running Hill on sweeps ? Using Gio to hammer it in on goal line ? Refusing to address O-line problems ? Back to back running plays down two scores with 5 mins left in game ? Throwing fade on the 6 inch line ? And on and on

Neither RB is the problem !

(10-18-2016, 07:51 PM)Older Than You Wrote: Gio is criminally underutilized.

Well-put.

(10-16-2016, 06:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I would love to see how other coaches like Belichick would use Gio. I bet anything he would be in on punt returns, and a bigger factor in the passing game while Hill is in there. And I bet coaches like Belichick would use Rex quite a bit more as well.

Gio is one of my favourite players.  Always plays hard and is tougher than his size suggests

If i was a Defensive Co-Ordinator and you could pick who you would face/scheme against I would pick Hill.

Gio's shiftiness and versatility causes more problems and I think someone like Belichick would love to have him and would move him all over the place to create match up problems.  

Seems strange that Gio's most productive year was his rookie year. You'd have thought we would have found ways for him to be more involved rather than less over the years.

Hill is unrecognizable from his former self....I thought we were guaranteed 1000+yd seasons from him for the next 5 years.  You just know that if we don't extend him he could land somewhere good and finally start producing again

GIO = Darren Sproles 2.0 .....but with these coaches? GIO may well be the waterboy as long as "run directly into the pile every single time" Hill is here.

(10-18-2016, 08:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: C'mon LL...this is a stretch and you know it. Our pass blocking isn't a RB problem. It's a Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi problem. Ultimately there is very little difference in Gio and Hill as far as blocking. I don't see Hill out there whiffing all the time.

As for RZ, Gio brings pass catching, but he can't pound it in like Hill can. That's been proven over a 3 year span. I definitely wouldn't mind a few more passes to Gio inside the 20 as he has the wiggle to make something happen (if he gets space...which he rarely does anymore...which is another scheme problem), but near the GL, I'd say Hill is more useful.

I actually have seen Hill whiff big time the last two games and get Dalton sacked Shake.

Gio is much better at picking up the blitz, it isn't even close. Should of brought in Hill at the goal line against the Pats though,
this is where Hill is money. Our coaches just don't know how to utilize our players strengths. Like putting in Peko at FB when
Hewitt is much better at finding a defender to block. It doesn't matter how big you are if you cannot identify the player to
block. Peko and Hill are examples of this cause Hewitt and Gio are much better at blocking.