(10-21-2016, 10:30 AM)Wyche Wrote: Why were they stupid to hire him as a DC?  He was DC of the '88 Super Bowl team, right?  They didn't hire him for HC, where he was an obvious failure.  Your "logic" is often hard to follow.

But he was part of the bengal staff of the 90's.  You claimed that no one from that staff could be a good coach.

(10-21-2016, 10:33 AM)Wyche Wrote: "Boling finished his career with 49 career starts. As a senior in 2010 he was named an All-American by Pro Football Weekly"








He was also All SEC.

You got me there.

(10-21-2016, 10:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But he was part of the bengal staff of the 90's.  You claimed that no one from that staff could be a good coach.

No, I asked why you would allow anyone from that staff to REMAIN....as in housecleaning. 

.....and to be clear, I think it is about accountability in that regard, versus coaching ability.

(10-21-2016, 11:04 AM)Wyche Wrote: No, I asked why you would allow anyone from that staff to REMAIN....as in housecleaning. 

I know exactly what you said.  That is why I pointed out that it is possible for there to be good coaches on the staff of a losing team.

If a coach is good you don't fire him just because the team loses.

Understand now?  This goes back to the point I keep repeating.  Change just for the sake of change doesn't fix anything.  

We have lost 5 straight playoff games with A. J. Green and Carlos Dunlap.  Does that mean we should get rid of them?

(10-21-2016, 11:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know exactly what you said.  That is why I pointed out that it is possible for there to be good coaches on the staff of a losing team.

If a coach is good you don't fire him just because the team loses.

Understand now?  This goes back to the point I keep repeating.  Change just for the sake of change doesn't fix anything.  

We have lost 5 straight playoff games with A. J. Green and Carlos Dunlap.  Does that mean we should get rid of them?

Fred you keep repeating this as if it has some meaning. The Browns as one example fit that description, new HC every other year and so on.

We need a house cleaning in this coaching staff bad ! Marvin is in season 14, that's not under the category change for changes sake. Dear Gawd how many chances does he get ? How long has P. Alexander been here ? Zampese ? and he's just awful.

This coaching staff isn't getting it done - period. And if it's not crystal clear nothings going to change ???

(10-21-2016, 11:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I know exactly what you said.  That is why I pointed out that it is possible for there to be good coaches on the staff of a losing team.

If a coach is good you don't fire him just because the team loses.

Understand now?  This goes back to the point I keep repeating.  Change just for the sake of change doesn't fix anything.  

We have lost 5 straight playoff games with A. J. Green and Carlos Dunlap.  Does that mean we should get rid of them?

Lets equate this to real life......if a store is constantly out of inventory, but the workers work their tails off, and keep customers coming in to purchase what goods they DO have.....do you fire them or the manager?

(10-21-2016, 12:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: Lets equate this to real life......if a store is constantly out of inventory, but the workers work their tails off, and keep customers coming in to purchase what goods they DO have.....do you fire them or the manager?

Do you fire every single manager even if some of them are talented and hard working?

(10-21-2016, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you fire every single manager even if some of them are talented and hard working?

When it comes to stocking a store.....I'd look damn hard at it....as they'd all had a hand in it.

(10-21-2016, 12:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: When it comes to stocking a store.....I'd look damn hard at it.

Then lets forget about stoking a store and talk about the NFL.

Would the Bengals have had a better defense with Dick LeBeau as DC instead of Bresnehan?

(10-21-2016, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you fire every single manager even if some of them are talented and hard working?

No but you have to examine the facts and results 

0-7

case closed

(10-21-2016, 12:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: No but you have to examine the facts and results 

0-7

case closed

No the case is not closed.

You are trying to make the same argument as Bronco fans who claimed it was 100% proven that John Elway could never win a Super Bowl.

(10-21-2016, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then lets forget about stoking a store and talk about the NFL.

Would the Bengals have had a better defense with Dick LeBeau as DC instead of Bresnehan?

Did Marvin choose to keep Alexander?  Do we know if he has chosen to keep him all these years?  I don't think you necessarily fire everyone, but I do think you leave it up to the new head coach.  It's his team, he is ultimately responsible for the success, so I think he gets to hand pick his guys.

(10-21-2016, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then lets forget about stoking a store and talk about the NFL.

Would the Bengals have had a better defense with Dick LeBeau as DC instead of Bresnehan?

Depends on personnel in some regards....one ran a 3-4, the other a 4-3.  There would be a lag in performance until you got the right players for the right scheme.  So, Bresnehan would have some issues with LeBeau's personnel, and vice versa.  Obviously, overall, LeBeau is the better coordinator, but he was canned as a HC.  So, by your rationale, the Bengals should have just demoted him....

(10-21-2016, 12:56 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Did Marvin choose to keep Alexander?  Do we know if he has chosen to keep him all these years?  I don't think you necessarily fire everyone, but I do think you leave it up to the new head coach.  It's his team, he is ultimately responsible for the success, so I think he gets to hand pick his guys.

If we change head coaches then that coach should select his staff.

Since we don't know if Marvin would have kept Paul Alexander that point is moot.

My point is that ypou judge every coach on his merits instead of just saying that every coach on a losing team is garbage.  Dick LeBeau proves my point.  

(10-21-2016, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No the case is not closed.

You are trying to make the same argument as Bronco fans who claimed it was 100% proven that John Elway could never win a Super Bowl.

I don't think the two are equivalent.  Elway had great post season success, he got to multiple Super Bowls.  Did some fans wonder if he would ever win it?  Yes, I'm sure they did, but Marvin has not shown that he can get close to it.  As we all know, he has failed to win even a single playoff game.

(10-21-2016, 12:56 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Did Marvin choose to keep Alexander?  Do we know if he has chosen to keep him all these years?  I don't think you necessarily fire everyone, but I do think you leave it up to the new head coach.  It's his team, he is ultimately responsible for the success, so I think he gets to hand pick his guys.

I don't think he did initially, I think that was Brown's call, but it would seem he has kept him to this point?

(10-21-2016, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If we change head coaches then that coach should select his staff.

Since we don't know if Marvin would have kept Paul Alexander that point is moot.

My point is that ypou judge every coach on his merits instead of just saying that every coach on a losing team is garbage.  Dick LeBeau proves my point.  

......however, most teams allow the HC to select his own staff.

(10-21-2016, 01:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: I don't think he did initially, I think that was Brown's call, but it would seem he has kept him to this point?

I don't know.  I would hope that Marvin has wanted to keep him for at least the biggest part of the last 14 years.

(10-21-2016, 01:03 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I don't know.  I would hope that Marvin has wanted to keep him for at least the biggest part of the last 14 years.

Me either.  Another point that is being kinda left by the wayside here is that we aren't talking about just losing some games.  We are talking about being a part of staffs that lost games in EPIC proportions.  Only the Detroit Lions (with an 0-16 clip) have ever had a worse decade in all of professional sports.  If that isn't grounds for a housecleaning, I don't know what would be.

(10-21-2016, 01:01 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote:
I don't think the two are equivalent.  Elway had great post season success, he got to multiple Super Bowls.  Did some fans wonder if he would ever win it?  Yes, I'm sure they did, but Marvin has not shown that he can get close to it.  As we all know, he has failed to win even a single playoff game.

The two are exactly equivalent.

Both Marvin and Elway had had a lot of success but failed at a certain level.  Bronco fans claimed that the failure was 100% proof that Elway could not win a Super Bowl.  Some Bengal fans claim that it is 100% proof that Marvin will never win a playoff game.  The Bronco fans who claimed it was 100% proven were wrong.  The Bengal fans may be right or they may be wrong.  We don't know yet.  But we do know that past failure is not 100% of future failure.