(10-22-2016, 08:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean '14, and that was the first year as a player, coordinator, or coach in the NFL that he was not working under Marvin Lewis.

That is correct...2014, his first year as an NFL head coach, he did not make the playoffs.  He did in each of his seasons as Cincinnati's OC.  When he came to Cincinnati, it was Dalton's rookie season and there were no OTAs due to the disagreements in the new CBA.  That team was expected by many to not win a game, but his offense helped them go 9-7.  

There is also this:

...From 2002 to 2008 he served as an offensive assistant for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the National Football League under his brother, head coach Jon Gruden, earning a Super Bowl ring for the Bucs' win in Super Bowl XXXVII.[5][6] He left the team after his brother was fired following the 2008 season.



I'm pretty sure Marvin Lewis was not at Tampa at that time.  

(10-23-2016, 09:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is also this:

...From 2002 to 2008 he served as an offensive assistant for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the National Football League under his brother, head coach Jon Gruden, earning a Super Bowl ring for the Bucs' win in Super Bowl XXXVII.[5][6] He left the team after his brother was fired following the 2008 season.



I'm pretty sure Marvin Lewis was not at Tampa at that time.  

 There is also this.  After John won the Super Bowl in '02 with a team Dungy built the Bucs took a nose dive and went 45-51 over the next 6 years.

(10-23-2016, 09:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  There is also this.  After John won the Super Bowl in '02 with a team Dungy built the Bucs took a nose dive and went 45-51 over the next 6 years.

Correct, but you fail to recognize that Marvin Lewis was not with Tampa at that time, correct?  You stated earlier that all of Gruden's success in coaching was under Marv...and he was a part of a Super Bowl Champion.  

(10-23-2016, 09:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Correct, but you fail to recognize that Marvin Lewis was not with Tampa at that time, correct?  You stated earlier that all of Gruden's success in coaching was under Marv...and he was a part of a Super Bowl Champion.  

1.  I do not consider "offensive assistant" a "coach".

2.  YOU were the one who claimed he had never missed the playoffs when in fact the Bucs missed the playoffs multiple times while Gruden as an "offensive assistant" there.

(10-23-2016, 09:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  I do not consider "offensive assistant" a "coach".

2.  YOU were the one who claimed he had never missed the playoffs when in fact the Bucs missed the playoffs multiple times while Gruden as an "offensive assistant" there.

Interesting.  He is paid by the team and he isn't a player, team doctor, or trainer, but he isn't a coach?  Whatever.

And he did win a Super Bowl outside of Marvin Lewis, after you claimed he had no success outside of Lewis until last year.  

(10-23-2016, 09:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  There is also this.  After John won the Super Bowl in '02 with a team Dungy built the Bucs took a nose dive and went 45-51 over the next 6 years.

Jon Gruden career: 95-81 (.540) 5-4 in playoffs with a Super Bowl win and winning career record in both Tampa (in spite of "nose dive") and Oakland. You appear to defend firing that coach and retaining this coach: Marvin Lewis career 114-98-2 (.537) and 0-7 in playoffs. Inconsistent methods of evaluation or are you just crazy?

(10-23-2016, 10:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Interesting.  He is paid by the team and he isn't a player, team doctor, or trainer, but he isn't a coach?  Whatever.

"Offensive Assistants" don't do any coaching.  They break down film and do administrative work.


That is why they are not called "coaches".

Not "whatever".  Reality.

(10-23-2016, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: "Offensive Assistants" don't do any coaching.  They break down film and do administrative work.


That is why they are not called "coaches".

Not "whatever".  Reality.

I guess that glorified secretary experience is what got him a head coaching job.   

(10-23-2016, 10:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I guess that glorified secretary experience is what got him a head coaching job.   

Wrong again.

Jay could not get a sniff of a NFL coaching job with just his "offensive assistant" experience at TB.  He had to go do some actual coaching in the arena league before the Bengals hired him.

(10-23-2016, 10:28 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong again.

Jay could not get a sniff of a NFL coaching job with just his "offensive assistant" experience at TB.  He had to go do some actual coaching in the arena league before the Bengals hired him.

And that coaching job in the arena league, where he won two equivalent Super Bowls, was awarded based on his secretarial skills at Tampa.  

(10-23-2016, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And that coaching job in the arena league, where he won two equivalent Super Bowls, was awarded based on his secretarial skills at Tampa.  

No.  Wrong again.

Jay was a head coach in the Arena League (Orlando Predators '98-'01) before he ever worked as an offensive assistant in the NFL.

You should really just give up.  this is turning into a beat down.

(10-23-2016, 10:08 AM)xxlt Wrote: Jon Gruden career: 95-81 (.540) 5-4 in playoffs with a Super Bowl win and winning career record in both Tampa (in spite of "nose dive") and Oakland. You appear to defend firing that coach and retaining this coach: Marvin Lewis career 114-98-2 (.537) and 0-7 in playoffs. Inconsistent methods of evaluation or are you just crazy?

Facts, i like.

(10-23-2016, 10:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Wrong again.

Jay was a head coach in the Arena League (Orlando Predators '98-'01) before he ever worked as an offensive assistant in the NFL.

You should really just give up.  this is turning into a beat down.

Damn, you are crazy. Turning into a beat down?

You just pick a piece out of someones sentence and argue with it, it is truly sad and pathetic.

(10-23-2016, 10:08 AM)xxlt Wrote: Jon Gruden career: 95-81 (.540) 5-4 in playoffs with a Super Bowl win and winning career record in both Tampa (in spite of "nose dive") and Oakland. You appear to defend firing that coach and retaining this coach: Marvin Lewis career 114-98-2 (.537) and 0-7 in playoffs. Inconsistent methods of evaluation or are you just crazy?

WTF are you even talking about.

i was not comparing Gruden to Lewis.  Did you even read my posts?

(10-23-2016, 12:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You just pick a piece out of someones sentence and argue with it, it is truly sad and pathetic.

No I prove people wrong when they are wrong.

(10-23-2016, 10:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Wrong again.

Jay was a head coach in the Arena League (Orlando Predators '98-'01) before he ever worked as an offensive assistant in the NFL.

You should really just give up.  this is turning into a beat down.

By who's scorecard?  Yours?  Hilarious.

So, Jay got a job at the Cincinnati Bengals because he was a secretary.  I guess the Bengals don't know anything about hiring coaches.  Hue, Zim, and Jay (and soon to be Vance) must have all been great at dictation as well to get their foot in the door.  

(10-23-2016, 12:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Facts, i like.


Damn, you are crazy. Turning into a beat down?

You just pick a piece out of someones sentence and argue with it, it is truly sad and pathetic.

Right, when this "debate" started, Burnt toast claimed Jay Gruden had never had any coaching experience before the Bengals, and it was always under Lewis....and he just posted about his head coaching experience in the Arena League before he even got to Tampa....where burnt thinks he was simply a secretary, and he won't acknowledge him as a coach before marv.  Hilarious.  What a beat down.  

(10-22-2016, 10:10 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Last year was the first year in his career as a player, coordinator, or coach that Gruden did not make the playoffs...ever.

So you are not counting his time spent in Tampa Bay, correct?

(10-24-2016, 09:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Right, when this "debate" started, Burnt toast claimed Jay Gruden had never had any coaching experience before the Bengals, and it was always under Lewis....and he just posted about his head coaching experience in the Arena League before he even got to Tampa....where burnt thinks he was simply a secretary, and he won't acknowledge him as a coach before marv.  Hilarious.  What a beat down.  

Yeah man, but lets let it be his little secret...

(10-25-2016, 09:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are not counting his time spent in Tampa Bay, correct?

No, because you don't acknowledge his coaching years there, so I can't use them.  

(10-25-2016, 07:44 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: No, because you don't acknowledge his coaching years there, so I can't use them.  

So before I refused to acknowledge them you were counting them?  Is that correct?