(10-25-2016, 10:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Depends on the situation. For example, taking a safety (Pats game) is never acceptable. The one against the Browns was on him too. 

If Burfict had horsecollared Brady in the endzone, it wouldn't have been a safety. There would have been an ejection, personal fine and Marvin would have had to pen an apology letter to Belichek. Which doesn't excuse the line for flinging Hightower at their quarterback, but it did add a little salt to that wound.

(10-25-2016, 11:14 AM)Benton Wrote: If Burfict had horsecollared Brady in the endzone, it wouldn't have been a safety. There would have been an ejection, personal fine and Marvin would have had to pen an apology letter to Belichek. Which doesn't excuse the line for flinging Hightower at their quarterback, but it did add a little salt to that wound.

In the pocket a horse collar on a QB is legal.....strangely enough.

(10-25-2016, 11:20 AM)Au165 Wrote: In the pocket a horse collar on a QB is legal.....strangely enough.

I get that it's legal. I'm just saying there's no way that wouldn't have been a flag if the teams were reversed. If for no other reason than to send the message of 'you don't potentially injure Mr. Football.'

(10-25-2016, 11:27 AM)Benton Wrote: I get that it's legal. I'm just saying there's no way that wouldn't have been a flag if the teams were reversed. If for no other reason than to send the message of 'you don't potentially injure Mr. Football.'

"Roughing the Brady"

(10-25-2016, 10:11 AM)Au165 Wrote: Everyone gives Andrew Luck a pass because of a bad O line. I personally think Luck is the most over rated QB in the NFL, but if we are talking about the general public and what "true MVPs" then why does Luck get a pass?

Don't you know why he get's a pass?  Because he was the 1st pick of the draft.  For that reason Luck is almighty!  

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.

You can definitely make an argument that Dalton is safely in the top 10 QBs in the NFL.

Only ones I'd definitively put ahead of him would be Brady, Brees, Ryan, Roethlisberger and Rodgers.

Others in contention would be Rivers, Stafford, Wilson and Newton, but the first two are up and down and the other 2 are better athletes than pure QBs.

I believe Dalton and Luck are neck and neck stats wise so to say one is overrated is kinds silly and i'm no Luck fan. I mean last i looked he doesn't have much to work with either.

(10-25-2016, 12:14 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I believe Dalton and Luck are neck and neck stats wise so to say one is overrated is kinds silly and i'm no Luck fan. I mean last i looked he doesn't have much to work with either.

I'm not saying that I would take Luck over Dalton, but he has had significantly less to work with during his career.

As to Fred's point, I believe Andy is playing at least as well as he did last year.  The offensive line play has been way below what it was last year, most games there is no real running game to speak of, no Eifert, and two new wide receivers.  And not to mention his third Offensive Coordinator, about whom the jury is definitely out at this point.

(10-25-2016, 12:24 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I'm not saying that I would take Luck over Dalton, but he has had significantly less to work with during his career.

As to Fred's point, I believe Andy is playing at least as well as he did last year.  The offensive line play has been way below what it was last year, most games there is no real running game to speak of, no Eifert, and two new wide receivers.  And not to mention his third Offensive Coordinator, about whom the jury is definitely out at this point.

Oh i totally agree. I was just pointing out to those dissing Luck the numbers are pretty much dead equal. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing

(10-25-2016, 09:40 AM)NKYRob Wrote: Let's not forget the fact that he is simply not turning the ball over.  Given the pressure he's been under he certainly has a legitimate excuse if it were to happen, but he is taking care of the ball very well.  This team has a lot of deficiencies, but Dalton is not one of them.

Has he thrown an INT all year? Serious question... 

(10-25-2016, 12:43 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Oh i totally agree. I was just pointing out to those dissing Luck the numbers are pretty much dead equal. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing

What makes Luck over rated is not how he stacks against Andy, but rather the perception versus reality of what he is versus expectations. People say the name Andrew Luck they say top QB, future star, etc. even though that is not what his stats show. Luck was anointed the next great QB while in college, but the reality is he is an above average QB (Like Andy), yet people refuse to admit it.

(10-25-2016, 12:43 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Oh i totally agree. I was just pointing out to those dissing Luck the numbers are pretty much dead equal. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing

I will say this.  If I am Andrew Luck, maybe I don't need $25 million per year when the team around me is lacking in so many areas.  Maybe I let them use $7-8 million a year on the offensive line so I don't get killed and spend my retirement in a wheel chair.  On the other hand, maybe I look at the GM, realize what a tool he is, and think "I'm stuck here so I might as well make as much as humanly possible".

Which brings me back to Dalton.  Right now, I think Dalton is under paid (ironically, I thought the Bengals extended him a year early.  I was wrong).  If he continues performing at this level, than he is severely under paid.  That said, I don't see him demanding $25-30 million a year when this deal is up.  I could really see him being like Brady, taking a below market level deal so that the team can keep other pieces in place.

(10-25-2016, 12:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: What makes Luck over rated is not how he stacks against Andy, but rather the perception versus reality of what he is versus expectations. People say the name Andrew Luck they say top QB, future star, etc. even though that is not what his stats show. Luck was anointed the next great QB while in college, but the reality is he is an above average QB (Like Andy), yet people refuse to admit it.

And i totally agree with this as well. In fact my first response to this thread was pretty much a rant about how his play it isn't being talked about outside Cinci, media bias and all.

 I just decided not to post it.

(10-25-2016, 12:54 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: And i totally agree with this as well. In fact my first response to this thread was pretty much a rant about how his play it isn't being talked about outside Cinci, media bias and all.

 I just decided not to post it.


Make no mistake though, i truly believe he will be up there with Anderson etc when it comes to HOF snubs when he retires. 

It's because the team is not winning.  Last year, there was a ton of talk about how he had upped his game and was a legitimate MVP candidate until his injury.  Even during the off season I saw some "how far could they have gone if Dalton did not get hurt" conversations.

He needs playoff success and Super Bowls to get in the Hall of Fame.  Not many get there without at least one.

(10-25-2016, 12:58 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It's because the team is not winning.  Last year, there was a ton of talk about how he had upped his game and was a legitimate MVP candidate until his injury.  Even during the off season I saw some "how far could they have gone if Dalton did not get hurt" conversations.

He needs playoff success and Super Bowls to get in the Hall of Fame.  Not many get there without at least one.

Ahh, you caught me before i deleted the HOF comment. I got ahead of myself on that one.  Yes, he finally did get some due respect last season.

(10-25-2016, 09:40 AM)NKYRob Wrote: Let's not forget the fact that he is simply not turning the ball over.  Given the pressure he's been under he certainly has a legitimate excuse if it were to happen, but he is taking care of the ball very well.  This team has a lot of deficiencies, but Dalton is not one of them.

This is a huge part of it not turning the ball over.  He has improved his game on this front by a large margin.  Now that it has been said we must wait and see.  

(10-25-2016, 12:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Has he thrown an INT all year? Serious question... 

2 INTs all year; one in the Jets game and one in the Broncos game.  No fumbles lost on the season (credited with two fumbles in the Dolphins game but both were recovered).  

Through his first seven games played in 2015 he had 4 INTs and 1 fumble lost.  

He took a couple of sacks in the redzone of the Jets game that should have been thrown out the back of the endzone. But I agree, he's played very well this year.

Why is there a need to point out Dalton's performance every week? I don't see this with Brady and Big Ben or other "elite" quarterbacks.

(10-25-2016, 02:17 PM)Fresno B Wrote: Why is there a need to point out Dalton's performance every week? I don't see this with Brady and Big Ben or other "elite" quarterbacks.

Plenty of people recognize the value these guys bring to their teams.  There's still a good chunk of people in this market who honestly believe we'd be playing better with AJ McCarron at QB.