I agree with everything Kirkpatrick says in this interview, it's worth a watch.

http://www.si.com/nfl/video/2015/07/15/cincinnati-bengals-andy-dalton-aj-mccarron-dre-kirkpatrick

(07-16-2015, 02:21 AM)BayouBengal Wrote: I agree with everything Kirkpatrick says in this interview, it's worth a watch.

http://www.si.com/nfl/video/2015/07/15/cincinnati-bengals-andy-dalton-aj-mccarron-dre-kirkpatrick

Great job by Dre of dealing with the media.  The reporter really tried to bait him into saying that Andy needed someone to push him to make him work harder, by Dre wouldn't fall for it.

(07-13-2015, 02:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Actually OSUFan fits your description, he hates the SEC and states that McCarron is a crappy system Qb that had NFL level talent all around him and has no chance to make it in the NFL.

Also at this point no fan (other than those that went to minicamp) has seen him do anything yet, other than his coaches and fellow players (which are both giving some seriously good praise for him).

Well I posted a list of different QBs from the SEC and I don't hate the conference, but it is hard to not notice that the QBs from Alabama, LSU, and Florida the top teams that get all the talent, seem to never make it in the NFL. Guys who have to work with less, are used to it and know how to win.

As for coaches and players praising him, that's great and I hope he does well, but let's keep in mind these are the same coaches that praised Armon Binns at the same time of year.

(07-16-2015, 02:50 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Well I posted a list of different QBs from the SEC and I don't hate the conference, but it is hard to not notice that the QBs from Alabama, LSU, and Florida the top teams that get all the talent, seem to never make it in the NFL. Guys who have to work with less, are used to it and know how to win.

As for coaches and players praising him, that's great and I hope he does well, but let's keep in mind these are the same coaches that praised Armon Binns at the same time of year.

Why does everyone seem to cap on Binns?
Comparing him vs McCarron is unrealistic. Binns was a UDFA, McCarron was not.

The guy was playing very well as a Rookie WR, yes he had some up and downs. Hawkins emerged as our slot and made Binns 2nd string. He was waived because Kyle Cook was coming off of PUP. Claimed by Miami, finished out as well as he could considering he didn't know the offense, then the next year tore his ACL and MCL before the season started. Then at the end of the year was cut by Miami. Now he's with the Chiefs and hopefully he will find his way back to the field this year.

McCarron has had time to learn the playbook and is now going into his 2nd year. He was also ranked much higher that where he was drafted at, he fell due to his shoulder injury. 

Anyone that thinks that a UDFA WR can come in and take over is really delusional, WR's drafted in the first 2 round can barely do that.

(07-16-2015, 10:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why does everyone seem to cap on Binns?
Comparing him vs McCarron is unrealistic. Binns was a UDFA, McCarron was not.

The guy was playing very well as a Rookie WR, yes he had some up and downs. Hawkins emerged as our slot and made Binns 2nd string. He was waived because Kyle Cook was coming off of PUP. Claimed by Miami, finished out as well as he could considering he didn't know the offense, then the next year tore his ACL and MCL before the season started. Then at the end of the year was cut by Miami. Now he's with the Chiefs and hopefully he will find his way back to the field this year.

McCarron has had time to learn the playbook and is now going into his 2nd year. He was also ranked much higher that where he was drafted at, he fell due to his shoulder injury. 

Anyone that thinks that a UDFA WR can come in and take over is really delusional, WR's drafted in the first 2 round can barely do that.

It isn't unrealistic.
It's comparing the absurd hype two players who had never taken a meaningful NFL snap before received. It's completely fair. 

People get on Binns because he sucked. He wasn't good. He wasn't playing very well. And it wasn't his rookie year. 
If you are going to say people got it wrong, make sure you got it right at least. 

200 yards and 1 TD is very well now? Good grief. 

(07-16-2015, 02:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Great job by Dre of dealing with the media.  The reporter really tried to bait him into saying that Andy needed someone to push him to make him work harder, by Dre wouldn't fall for it.

Good for Dre....showing some maturity there.

(07-16-2015, 10:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why does everyone seem to cap on Binns?

Because he is the ultimate proof of how silly hype can be about a player who has never played snap in an NFL game.

(07-16-2015, 10:19 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It isn't unrealistic.
It's comparing the absurd hype two players who had never taken a meaningful NFL snap before received. It's completely fair. 

People get on Binns because he sucked. He wasn't good. He wasn't playing very well. And it wasn't his rookie year. 
If you are going to say people got it wrong, make sure you got it right at least. 

200 yards and 1 TD is very well now? Good grief. 

You're right, it was his second year, first year off of the PS. 
No matter though, he was still a UDFA, and it usually takes 3 years to learn the WR position for top end draftees, so expecting him to make that big of a jump is kinda silly.

From what I can tell, no one is really expecting McCarron to come in and light it up this year. Most of us understand that it's AD's job to lose. However, once given a chance, McCarron might surprise people.

PS Do you realize that those stats are only from 5 games?

(07-16-2015, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because he is the ultimate proof of how silly hype can be about a player who has never played snap in an NFL game.

Kinda like how almost all teams do with their younger guys?

Why are you 2 rooting against a Bengal player? To me it really sounds like you don't want McCarron to be a success.

I thought he was a solid pick for a backup QB behind Dalton. I doubt he becomes a star here
though cause i think that Dalton will have a big bounce back year and put up big numbers.

But if Dalton continues the slide he was on last year WITH his weapons i sure hope McCarron
is up to the task...

(07-16-2015, 01:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I thought he was a solid pick for a backup QB behind Dalton. I doubt he becomes a star here
though cause i think that Dalton will have a big bounce back year and put up big numbers.

But if Dalton continues the slide he was on last year WITH his weapons i sure hope McCarron
is up to the task...

No doubt, or we are screwed!

(07-16-2015, 01:43 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You're right, it was his second year, first year off of the PS. 
No matter though, he was still a UDFA, and it usually takes 3 years to learn the WR position for top end draftees, so expecting him to make that big of a jump is kinda silly.

From what I can tell, no one is really expecting McCarron to come in and light it up this year. Most of us understand that it's AD's job to lose. However, once given a chance, McCarron might surprise people.

PS Do you realize that those stats are only from 5 games?

Kinda like how almost all teams do with their younger guys?

Why are you 2 rooting against a Bengal player? To me it really sounds like you don't want McCarron to be a success.

5 games. 5 unimpressive not good games. 40 yards a game is not good. Stop making bullshit excuses.

Do you not see the title of this thread? Or the countless others? Dalton is a winning QB with 4 years of playoff births. But people are talking like McCarron could win the job tomorrow.

No one is rooting against him, we just aren't dropping trou at some lame rookie camp hype. Being skeptical is not the same is rooting against, but I guess I could see how you see it that way...not really but considering you think Armon Binns was "very good" a legitimate football discussion is unlikely 

(07-16-2015, 02:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: No doubt, or we are screwed!

Yeah, but i doubt it goes down like that like i said.

With all his weapons back, some added, a solid O-line and badass running game i see Dalton having a big year this season barring injuries.

(07-16-2015, 01:43 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why are you 2 rooting against a Bengal player? To me it really sounds like you don't want McCarron to be a success.

Best case scenario mccarron never needs to see the field in a bengals uniform.

Kinda funny you say it like that cause that would mean that everyone rooting for mccarron to be a big success if rooting against another bengals player named Dalton.

If dalton is hurt/traded/released then will be the time to root for mccarron. Right now i just want to see him in some preseason action. but hoping hes the next starter for the team would mean something bad for either Dalton or the Bengals as a whole how could a fan ever root for that?

(07-16-2015, 03:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Best case scenario mccarron never needs to see the field in a bengals uniform.

Kinda funny you say it like that cause that would mean that everyone rooting for mccarron to be a big success if rooting against another bengals player named Dalton.

If dalton is hurt/traded/released  then will be the time to root for mccarron.   Right now i just want to see him in some preseason action.   but hoping hes the next starter for the team would mean something bad for either Dalton or the Bengals as a whole how could a fan ever root for that?

It's funny because this logic escapes McCarron fans, has from the day we drafted him and they held signs over camp about starting him over Andy. They're loony. 

(07-16-2015, 03:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Best case scenario mccarron never needs to see the field in a bengals uniform.

Kinda funny you say it like that cause that would mean that everyone rooting for mccarron to be a big success if rooting against another bengals player named Dalton.

If dalton is hurt/traded/released  then will be the time to root for mccarron.   Right now i just want to see him in some preseason action.   but hoping hes the next starter for the team would mean something bad for either Dalton or the Bengals as a whole how could a fan ever root for that?

Actually, I think the best case scenario would be that AJM lights it up in preseason. Then Andy has an Aaron Rodgers-esque season and we're winning by so many points that AJM plays the entire 2nd half in most games and lights it up against 1st string defenses throughout the whole season. We win the Super Bowl with Andy having a 150 passer rating and then we trade AJM for 3 future first round picks right before the draft. He then decides to retire from football (don't want to wish injury on any player) so that team no longer has the great AJ McCarron and we have all of their first round picks for the next few years. Wooo!

But yeah, if McCarron doesn't see the field we're probably in better shape than if he needs to. There are definitely delusional people on both sides of the argument. I see no reason that people wouldn't want him to be good, but I also don't see why people want us to be in position where he'd need to be playing.

(07-16-2015, 01:43 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why are you 2 rooting against a Bengal player? To me it really sounds like you don't want McCarron to be a success.

Since I have said multiple times that I want McCarron to succeed it really sounds like you are just setting up a strawman to knock down.

All I have said is that i want to see McCarron do something good on the field before I predict he will be a startr or even a solid starting quality QB in the NFL.

(07-16-2015, 03:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Actually, I think the best case scenario would be that AJM lights it up in preseason. Then Andy has an Aaron Rodgers-esque season and we're winning by so many points that AJM plays the entire 2nd half in most games and lights it up against 1st string defenses throughout the whole season. We win the Super Bowl with Andy having a 150 passer rating and then we trade AJM for 3 future first round picks right before the draft. He then decides to retire from football (don't want to wish injury on any player) so that team no longer has the great AJ McCarron and we have all of their first round picks for the next few years. Wooo!

But yeah, if McCarron doesn't see the field we're probably in better shape than if he needs to. There are definitely delusional people on both sides of the argument. I see no reason that people wouldn't want him to be good, but I also don't see why people want us to be in position where he'd need to be playing.

As OP of future star thread I guess that makes me the minister of propaganda for the delusional Mc'Nazi party. But let me just say that I root for AJ and don't want to see Andy slide or ever get injured. I hope he lights it up so that they can let AJ clean up too! 

The analogies to Brady that I made are about his pick value and traits. I don't want him to have to play his first year for a hurt Andy like Brady did for Bledsoe. I've said before I don't want to see McCarron starting this year. He waited his turn at UA and earned his start (admittedly over Blake Simms) so he could theoretically do the same here. 

To make it easier for those who are having a hard time dealing with the inherent conundrum of rooting for a backup QB, I will help you out by formulating a best case scenario where AJ gets to start even though nobody does bad or gets hurt. 

Best case scenario: AJ gets to start after a few seasons of periodically winning over fans and coaches through a number of consistently good performances in regular season game appearances which where slowly earned only after a number of great preseasons and team practices.

I don't know how many preseasons or regular season appearances it will take to win people over. The formula makes that dependent on Andy and AJ collectively. But if you think about it this best case would work even if we win a SB under Andy. If AJ does in the next few years prove (to everyone) that he is every bit as good as an improved SB MVP Andy then why wouldn't we decide to go with youth and the extra cap space. Rooting for this scenario is rooting for the best thing that can happen for the team as a whole. Plus they seem like pals, Andy would understand and would still play somewhere (if he wanted to) and negotiate an even better deal for himself at a needier team. 

So... (CHANTS with crowd) Don't Hate or UnderEstimate!

(07-16-2015, 10:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why does everyone seem to cap on Binns?
Comparing him vs McCarron is unrealistic. Binns was a UDFA, McCarron was not.

The guy was playing very well as a Rookie WR, yes he had some up and downs. Hawkins emerged as our slot and made Binns 2nd string. He was waived because Kyle Cook was coming off of PUP. Claimed by Miami, finished out as well as he could considering he didn't know the offense, then the next year tore his ACL and MCL before the season started. Then at the end of the year was cut by Miami. Now he's with the Chiefs and hopefully he will find his way back to the field this year.

McCarron has had time to learn the playbook and is now going into his 2nd year. He was also ranked much higher that where he was drafted at, he fell due to his shoulder injury. 

Anyone that thinks that a UDFA WR can come in and take over is really delusional, WR's drafted in the first 2 round can barely do that.

See below

(07-16-2015, 10:19 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It isn't unrealistic.
It's comparing the absurd hype two players who had never taken a meaningful NFL snap before received. It's completely fair. 

People get on Binns because he sucked. He wasn't good. He wasn't playing very well. And it wasn't his rookie year. 
If you are going to say people got it wrong, make sure you got it right at least. 

200 yards and 1 TD is very well now? Good grief. 

Thanks, that was exactly my point. I'm not comparing the two players, I am only comparing the off season hype for players who had not taken snaps in the regular season.

(07-16-2015, 03:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Actually, I think the best case scenario would be that AJM lights it up in preseason. Then Andy has an Aaron Rodgers-esque season and we're winning by so many points that AJM plays the entire 2nd half in most games and lights it up against 1st string defenses throughout the whole season. We win the Super Bowl with Andy having a 150 passer rating and then we trade AJM for 3 future first round picks right before the draft. He then decides to retire from football (don't want to wish injury on any player) so that team no longer has the great AJ McCarron and we have all of their first round picks for the next few years. Wooo!

But yeah, if McCarron doesn't see the field we're probably in better shape than if he needs to. There are definitely delusional people on both sides of the argument. I see no reason that people wouldn't want him to be good, but I also don't see why people want us to be in position where he'd need to be playing.

1. Has anyone actually said they don't want him to be good? I haven't seen that, I've seen people doubt he will be good or at least want to see him physically able to practice in the NFL first....

2. Because some people seriously think winning at Alabama over the last 4 years was a tough task (EL OH EL) and makes him worthy of a starting gig. Ask people his best qualities and they say how much he won at Bama as one of them. 

(07-16-2015, 02:19 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 5 games. 5 unimpressive not good games. 40 yards a game is not good. Stop making bullshit excuses.

Do you not see the title of this thread? Or the countless others? Dalton is a winning QB with 4 years of playoff births. But people are talking like McCarron could win the job tomorrow.

No one is rooting against him, we just aren't dropping trou at some lame rookie camp hype. Being skeptical is not the same is rooting against, but I guess I could see how you see it that way...not really but considering you think Armon Binns was "very good" a legitimate football discussion is unlikely 

I think 40 yards per game isn't a bad average at all for a 2nd year WR that is not the number 1 go to guy on the team.

Our other other 2nd year WR's avg:
Marvin Jones (45 yards/g)
Andrew Hawkins (38 yds/g) (3rd year 24.9 yds/g)
Sanu's (28.4 yards/g)

Other than Hawkins, these guys were not UDFA's (Hawkins came from the CFL, so he wasn't as raw as Binns).

So what do you think of our other year 2 wr's? Because after looking, it's quite common for No 2 wr's to average about 40 yds/g in their 2nd year.