(07-16-2015, 09:16 AM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. There's more to being a good WR than career average yards and TDs. I'm sure you've watched alll 3 play in their respective schemes and I'd hope anyone with eyes could see that it's tough to make the claim that any of these guys are obviously better than the others. Now, in my opinion, it goes Dez > A.J. > DT. It's absolutely arguable to switch those around though. Since 2012, all 3 of these guys have been in the top 15 in yards per pass routes run with about 50 eligible receivers each year. Since 2011, all 3 guys have each been near the top of deep ball catching rates at least once. With the exception of 2011 where Dez only dropped 1 pass, all 3 guys have surprisingly been right around each other in drop rate each year.

2 & 3. So in statement 2 you don't know what their criteria will be but in statement 3 you do know that they don't give contracts for potential? Very interesting, please tell me more about how you don't know but you do know what the Bengals do.

4. Some people on here wish that Andy resigned, but he actually re-signed. Anyway, with this logic, any team that re-signs any player means said team feels he is "very good"?? That's quite the leap from reality and a nice spin to try and prop up Andy. Unfortunately, we all know that players are re-signed, signed, released, and traded for many, many reasons. A guy getting re-signed hardly automatically makes them "very good". The Bengals know what they have. They have a guy that is average that has shown flashes of greatness and also flashes of quite the opposite. His contract proves quite the opposite of them believing he's "very good", it shows they have a guy that could be considered a franchise QB so he's not bad, but he isn't "very good" either. Low guaranteed money, outs in the contract, escalators for improvement, and below market value cap hits for the first couple/few years of the deal prove exactly what they think of him. I'm not saying they re-signed him because they think he sucks, please don't get confused by my points, I'm simply stating that the assumption that they "re-signed him because they feel he's very good" is extremely off-base if you're willing to look at the facts of the situation.

"2 & 3. So in statement 2 you don't know what their criteria will be but in statement 3 you do know that they don't give contracts for potential? Very interesting, please tell me more about how you don't know but you do know what the Bengals do".

It is obvious I did not mean what I said about knowing the Bengals not using potential    Everyone always posts things they don't mean 100% according to you. Why would you take what someone said out of context?

My bad on the bad grammar, I forget this football message board is full of literary genius.

And yes I am confident our team would have not re-signed our QB to a long term contract paying big dollars if they thought he was a bad QB when they had other options on the table back then.

As far as your answer to #1 above, you must have missed the part where I said everything was on the table and never said it was all about stats.

(07-16-2015, 03:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: And yes I am confident our team would have not re-signed our QB to a long term contract paying big dollars if they thought he was a bad QB when they had other options on the table back then.

I agree with this, but that's not what you said originally at all.

In your original statement, you claimed the Bengals obviously felt he was a "very good player" since they re-signed him. That's not true. Players get re-signed for many reasons other than being deemed "very good".

In this statement, you say the Bengals wouldn't have re-signed our QB for big dollars if they thought he was bad. That's correct and I agree with what you're saying now.

I'm all for signing A.J., let me be clear, but I'm not jeopardizing the future success of this team just to keep a guy because I can't stand the thought of him playing elsewhere or my team drafted him and needs to hoard him because, well, because.

A.J.'s not worth a guaranteed 30-40 mil. He is worth more than Dalton's guaranteed money, so somewhere above Dalton money is where I would start negotiating with A.J.

You want to take Tampa's $40 mil and go lose, have fun.

(07-16-2015, 10:26 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: How many teams paying big money at WR get deep in the playoffs? 




Paying big money at WR can sometimes be a fools errand. 

History lends itself to not spending big at WR. 
The talent at WR is ridiculous thanks to the new rules. 

Other than the Buccaneers, these teams are pretty competitive aren't they?

(07-16-2015, 01:56 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: For starters, they could not act like their neighbor and handout money, like they have the Yankees payroll to appease homers like you, to 'stars' like Votto, Bruce, Phillips, and Bailey.

How is that working out for the Reds?  Oh yeah, they are buried in the NL Central.  Good luck with that mess.  

Er...I'm a Cubs fan so I'm not sure why you think insulting the Reds as a response to me thinking we should keep AJ Green means I'm saying the Bengals should sign all kinds of goofy free agents.  You just sort of make up arguments and realities, don't you?

I'd also point out that 2 of the teams ahead of the Reds (the Cubs and Pirates) are reaping the benefits of building talent from within and making sure you keep said talent on the team...which is more in tune with actually attempting to keep AJ Green here. Whoops!

(07-16-2015, 04:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Er...I'm a Cubs fan 

That explains a lot about you.  Sorry I didn't already know you were a Cubs fan in advance.  Please, tell me all of your favorite teams in every sport so I can catalog that in a spreadsheet.  

Hurrrrr durrrrrr

(07-16-2015, 04:20 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: That explains a lot about you.  Sorry I didn't already know you were a Cubs fan in advance.  Please, tell me all of your favorite teams in every sport so I can catalog that in a spreadsheet.  

Hurrrrr durrrrrr

Dancing around the points people are making is usually sign of not having anything to refute said points.

(07-16-2015, 10:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Without Green our WR corps is weak.  How many times do you see a guy who had some success playing the #2 WR fail when moved up to the #1 position.  And honestly Marvin Jones' best season was just average at best.  And behind him we don't have much at all.  Sanu could be effective out of the slot, but he is not that impressive either.

Green is a proven star.  When you get a player like that you need to pay him.

This.

How many true #1 WRs are there? They are not as rare as franchise QBs (or as valuable), but when you get an #1 WR you keep him.

(07-16-2015, 04:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Other than the Buccaneers, these teams are pretty competitive aren't they?

The Vikings are a bottom feeder in the NFC N, surprised you missed that one.  The Lions have a nice team, but will never win a damn thing as long as Rodgers stays healthy.  Oh, and that guy the Chiefs signed and are paying millions to...well, they HAD to do it because their WR corps put up a goose egg in TDs the previous year.  I'm sure Jeremy Maclin will set the league on fire catching passes from a stellar QB like Alex Smith.  Money well spent.

(07-16-2015, 04:20 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: That explains a lot about you.  Sorry I didn't already know you were a Cubs fan in advance.  Please, tell me all of your favorite teams in every sport so I can catalog that in a spreadsheet.  

Hurrrrr durrrrrr

Cubs
Bengals
Penguins
Celtics

File that under "N" for Nately120 OR you could, you know, not be a big ol' dousche who makes assumptions and then immediately acts like he is 100% correct before getting indignant when someone contradicts his fragile reality.  Nahh, just make that spreadsheet!

(07-16-2015, 11:49 AM)jj22 Wrote: There are plenty of updated receiver rankings and what may be surprising to you guys, but AJ is ranked pretty much out of the top 10 in most. I can find plenty more, but maybe you guys can provide me proof that the league respects him. I have news for you. The rankings you will find as of 2015 shows something different. It's crazy, but AJ has fallen far from grace as it relates to him being viewed as an elite receiver. That's just fact. I'd keep posting links, but I'm not trying to slam him. Just surprised some on this board hasn't caught up to the times. This isn't 2012 when he was top 3.

I think the majority would agree with you.  He isn't top 3 and should not be paid like a top tier guy.  + to you jj

(07-16-2015, 01:39 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: We should have moved Andy and drafted Teddy....
That was our chance. 

No team in the league would take a chance on a rookie QB working out (look at how many have failed in the last few years) when their QB just finished 3rd in the league in tds, 8th in yards, and 15th in passer rating.

That would have been crazy.

AJ and Dez, from a talent and output standpoint, are pretty much equals. But there is no doubt that AJ is the better teammate. Look no further than each player's thoughts on their respective deals. Bryant threatened to hold out, even with a nice tag amount salary. AJ says he has enough money right now and isn't worried about it.

All things considered, if I'm an NFL GM I'm much, much more comfortable paying AJ than Dez

(07-16-2015, 04:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Other than the Buccaneers, these teams are pretty competitive aren't they?

No rings. Have struggled to maintain success. 
It shrinks your window. 

(07-16-2015, 09:46 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: AJ and Dez, from a talent and output standpoint, are pretty much equals.  But there is no doubt that AJ is the better teammate.  Look no further than each player's thoughts on their respective deals.  Bryant threatened to hold out, even with a nice tag amount salary.  AJ says he has enough money right now and isn't worried about it.  

All things considered, if I'm an NFL GM I'm much, much more comfortable paying AJ than Dez

I think Dez's play and attitude counters equally with A.J.'s play and attitude. I think if you ask enough people whose opinion is worth a damn they'll tell you Dez is the slighlty more proven WR and more capable of taking games over than A.J., but even A.J. isn't the "heart and soul" like Dez, he's more stable and controlled and capable of handling guaranteed money. (Dez has drastically improved his antics since coming in the league however).

Just combine A.J.'s outlook and Dez's intensity and reap the benefits.

(07-16-2015, 11:54 PM)Stormborn Wrote: I think Dez's play and attitude counters equally with A.J.'s play and attitude. I think if you ask enough people whose opinion is worth a damn they'll tell you Dez is the slighlty more proven WR and more capable of taking games over than A.J., but even A.J. isn't the "heart and soul" like Dez, he's more stable and controlled and capable of handling guaranteed money. (Dez has drastically improved his antics since coming in the league however).

Just combine A.J.'s outlook and Dez's intensity and reap the benefits.

Also, I think it is worth mentioning that AJ is still under contract this year, while Dez technically wasn't. I doubt he will, but AJ could change his tune next season for all we know if we tag him.

(07-15-2015, 10:03 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I find it hilarious that people think QB play has no impact on the production of a WR.

The better the QB the better the wideouts perform. There is a direct correlation. AJ Green with Romo> AJ Green with Dalton. If you guys think AJ Green is better with an inferior QB or are somehow making the absurd argument that Dalton is as good as Romo, I just have to laugh.

I'll bet anything Dalton with Megatron would put up much better stats than AJ with Romo.

I say the Bengals should let Green play out his contract. You know that saying about how players play better in contract years? Well, let him play it out and maybe the Bengals can ride Green to a Super Bowl.

Yes, if that happens, then the Bengals will have to play a little more, but isn't a Super Bowl worth the extra 4 million per year?

Then again, maybe Green is the type of player that needs security and extending him now for 5 years gets him to relax and then the Bengals can ride him to a Super Bowl that way.

Well hell, if I knew what to do, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing this on a message board.

I still would have fired Marvin Lewis after losing to the Chargers though and I would have fired him after losing to the Colts too but have to take into account the injuries.

(07-17-2015, 12:26 AM)MrRager Wrote: Also, I think it is worth mentioning that AJ is still under contract this year, while Dez technically wasn't. I doubt he will, but AJ could change his tune next season for all we know if we tag him.

The only way he gets tagged is if we embarrassingly low ball him, but like I said, they know how popular he is to the city, he's their biggest star, and is more valuable to their offense than most top WRs. We'll offer him what everyone will consider a good deal.

He's never come off as money hungry, and I don't see that in him even with potentially a lot more leverage this offseason.

(07-17-2015, 12:41 AM)Lawless_1 Wrote: I'll bet anything Dalton with Megatron would put up much better stats than AJ with Romo.

Which has literally nothing to do anything CB said. 

(07-17-2015, 01:08 AM)Stormborn Wrote: The only way he gets tagged is if we embarrassingly low ball him, but like I said, they know how popular he is to the city, he's their biggest star, and is more valuable to their offense than most top WRs. We'll offer him what everyone will consider a good deal.

He's never come off as money hungry, and I don't see that in him even with potentially a lot more leverage this offseason.

Oh, I doubt we will lowball him and I doubt he plays money hungry, but Dez's situation this year and AJ's this year are a bit different. That's all I was saying. I guess I should have directed my reply to Mantooth, who was comparing their attitudes THIS year, but just kinda piggybacked your post.