(10-31-2016, 04:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: You know how Fresno rolls.....dude's been wringing his hands and salivating for a bad game from 14 since 2014.


I vote Nugent.  People said Nugent would cost us a game or two this season......well?

Wrong. I've been wringing my hands and salivating for a postseason win. You're concerned about just mostly Dalton. 

(10-31-2016, 12:06 AM)tlotharw Wrote: This defense gave up a Cleveland-esque 500 yards of offense.  If that's doing their job they need to find another job.

The D couldn't get their heads out of their asses thinking they were still playing the Cleveland game. What a coaching cluster****!

(10-31-2016, 08:57 PM)Fresno B Wrote: Wrong. I've been wringing my hands and salivating for a postseason win. You're concerned about just mostly Dalton. 

LMAO.....I just like calling out bullshit posts when I see them....usually from folks who never stepped between the hashes.....

(10-31-2016, 05:33 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: ML had one really good QB and that was Carson Palmer. I'm convinced we would've won that playoff game against the Steelers had not Palmer and our #2 WR not went down in the first half of that game. We were dominating the Steelers in all aspects of that game (including the scoreboard) until they went down. So yes, I'm cutting ML some slack and at the same time I can understand fans calling for him to be fired. 
Keep in mind the only other starting QBs ML had the pleasure of coaching were John-INT- Kittna, Robert Fritztradject and Andy-Manchild-Dalton.

That's conjecture and revisionist history.  Palmer went down on the SECOND play from scrimmage.  The team soldiered on until we came out with ZERO halftime adjustments....as usual.  I wasted my ***** money and time in '09 n the playoffs against NYJ at PBS watching the shit show Palmer put on. He choked....Kitna...Dalton...McCarron....Maualuga vs Owen Daniels....Green dropping a TD against SD...Bernard fumbling.....the lone constants?  Mediocre Marvin Screwus.....Son of Paul.....and his pet Piano Man.  I don't care if they mash up a clone of Joe Montana...John Elway....and Roger Staubach.  They ain't winning under Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums.....lack of discipline....fundamental errors.....and downright flat play has plagued this team on the big stage from day one.  That's a hallmark of piss poor coaching bubba.....not any one player.  The last time I had faith in the Bengals staff was '05.  The last time I got my money's worth at PBS.....aside from the comeback against Seattle....was the Guns N Roses show.  **** Marvin.

(10-31-2016, 05:27 PM)Mad Max Wrote: David Pollack broke his neck and didnt want to play anymore

I was alluding to the fallacy that we hadn't spent high round picks on defense.

(10-31-2016, 05:49 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: Actually, no! I'm advocating for the foreseeable future we spend all of our high draft picks on defense. The bengals have not done that. Do that, and with ML as HC we'll win in the playoffs. 
Think about it? It's been our defense pulling the team into the playoffs. The defense has falling off this year so it should not come as a surprise that we're not making the playoffs.

Marvin couldn't coach two dogs *****.....good coordinators have masked his deficiencies these last few years.  No Zimmer....No Gruden....No Hue = shit show.

(10-31-2016, 09:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: LMAO.....I just like calling out bullshit posts when I see them....usually from folks who never stepped between the hashes.....

Wrong again. You have an obvious infatuation with me on these boards. Hardly a post I write goes by without me expecting some kind of smart remark from you or rueben.ahmed. And the reply usually is void of substance pertaining to the topic. Case in point above. Senseless really. But carry on.

(10-31-2016, 10:16 PM)Fresno B Wrote: Wrong again. You have an obvious infatuation with me on these boards. Hardly a post I write goes by without me expecting some kind of smart remark from you or rueben.ahmed. And the reply usually is void of substance pertaining to the topic. Case in point above. Senseless really. But carry on.

No....you post the same shit over and over.....and it's usually wrong.  You were quiet as hell in here last year....why? Hmmm......it's not exactly rocket science.  You're a troll.  I deal with them accordingly.....if you ain't trolling....well.....mother always said if you didn't have anything nice to say......



Hammerthis.....on the other hand....has posted consistently and even posted somewhat positive things about the QB play last season.  He's somewhat reasonable....you can have a football discussion with him.  You're here to do one thing..... I'll oblige you.  If you don't want obliged...quit the silly posts.

Sorry your panties are still in a bunch over Derek Carr....but your interest plays on the Raiders.  Ever consider posting there?

(10-31-2016, 10:25 PM)Wyche Wrote: No....you post the same shit over and over.....and it's usually wrong.  You were quiet as hell in here last year....why? Hmmm......it's not exactly rocket science.  You're a troll.  I deal with them accordingly.....if you ain't trolling....well.....mother always said if you didn't have anything nice to say......



Hammerthis.....on the other hand....has posted consistently and even posted somewhat positive things about the QB play last season.  He's somewhat reasonable....you can have a football discussion with him.  You're here to do one thing..... I'll oblige you.  If you don't want obliged...quit the silly posts.

You're a Dalton fan. I'm a Bengal fan. I was here plenty last year. Don't know where you got that lie? Maybe is was the neg rep system that you and cronies abused that kept me off your radar?  Anyhow :andy:

(10-30-2016, 10:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lots of hate on the D, but in OT one side of the team did their job.

I don't necessarily agree that they did their job in OT, as they allowed a 10 play, 62 yard drive that luckily resulted in a missed FG, which let them off the hook. But, even if I did agree, there's the problem of the 60 minutes in regulation that preceded OT...and that was a problem which can't be ignored.

(10-31-2016, 10:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I don't necessarily agree that they did their job in OT, as they allowed a 10 play, 62 yard drive that luckily resulted in a missed FG, which let them off the hook. But, even if I did agree, there's the problem of the 60 minutes in regulation that preceded OT...and that was a problem which can't be ignored.

Well of course there is the dynamic of the D is not a person. 

Is Josh Shaw to blame with his 6 tackles and fine play on the slot receiver?

Is Geno Atkins to blame with his stout run D and sack?

Is Vontaze Burfict to blame with travelling all over the field and his 10 tackles?

It is my opinion is you have to point to one player that cost us a win; I pick the guy that wears #14 is stripes. He has played great all season in both wins and loses, but he crapped the bed yesterday. Anyone that objectively watched the game can see it.

But it's OK; I'm sure he will return to his normal Pro Bowl level next time he takes the field. I'm just not one to blame half the team to deflect a poor game by one person. Never have, never will. 

Why don't we just blame the country of England.

What would it take for you to necessarily agree that the D did their job in OT? To me, that was done when they stopped the first drive; anything else was gravy. But folks have differing opinions.

(10-31-2016, 10:29 PM)Fresno B Wrote: You're a Dalton fan. I'm a Bengal fan. I was here plenty last year. Don't know where you got that lie? Maybe is was the neg rep system that you and cronies abused that kept me off your radar?  Anyhow :andy:

Neg rep?  Are you seriously crying about imaginary points on the internet?  What are you.....3?

Look Skippie.....first off I've NEVER neg repped anyone.  Ak a mod.  Second off....I've been a fan of this team since Forrest Gregg was here.  Third....I'm no "Dalton fan". I played interior line and some DE.....Whitworth and Burfict are my favorite current Bengals....and one of them is playing like shit.

I don't recall you in the mega Dalton thread....or much else last year...to be honest.....but I have seen you a bunch this year.....and it's just some tired ass shit.  If you think a QB lost a game where the defense made Kurt Cousins look like Dan Marino....and gave up big yards to an undrafted no name out of Tulane.....then I dunno what to tell you bub.  All I can say is that I knew it was gonna be a long day after the skins' opening drive.

Reading this shit reminds me of the pencil neck ex band geeks at Commonwealth Stadium blaming Jarred Lorenzen for going 3-8. Lack of knowledge of the game.

(10-31-2016, 10:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's conjecture and revisionist history.  Palmer went down on the SECOND play from scrimmage.  The team soldiered on until we came out with ZERO halftime adjustments....as usual.  I wasted my ***** money and time in '09 n the playoffs against NYJ at PBS watching the shit show Palmer put on. He choked....Kitna...Dalton...McCarron....Maualuga vs Owen Daniels....Green dropping a TD against SD...Bernard fumbling.....the lone constants?  Mediocre Marvin Screwus.....Son of Paul.....and his pet Piano Man.  I don't care if they mash up a clone of Joe Montana...John Elway....and Roger Staubach.  They ain't winning under Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums.....lack of discipline....fundamental errors.....and downright flat play has plagued this team on the big stage from day one.  That's a hallmark of piss poor coaching bubba.....not any one player.  The last time I had faith in the Bengals staff was '05.  The last time I got my money's worth at PBS.....aside from the comeback against Seattle....was the Guns N Roses show.  **** Marvin.

Two things come to mind. 1. just a few weeks prior to that game Palmer and Bengals had already beaten the steelers in Pittsburg. 2. You're correct, Palmer did go down after the second pass attempt. But his first pass attempt was a deep bomb completion down the right side to Chris Henry. Yea, I'm convinced we would have won that game if not for the lost of our QB and #2 WR so hate on.

In regards to your "the team was soldiering on until zero halftime adjustments by ML" statement, that's sounds like bar talk to me. Seriously, don't you think Kitna's INT's had a little something to do with that? How would ML's halftime adjustments prevent his QB from throwing INT's? I mean, what was he suppose to say or do at halftime?. "Ok team that wraps up our halftime adjustments session lets do it! Oh, and Jon? don't throw any picks!" ??

Curse ML, but where would we be without him? I recall at some home games, lot of our fans wore brown paper bags over their heads. They were too darn embarrassed to be a Bengal fan.  

(10-31-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well of course there is the dynamic of the D is not a person. 

Is Josh Shaw to blame with his 6 tackles and fine play on the slot receiver?

Is Geno Atkins to blame with his stout run D and sack?

Is Vontaze Burfict to blame with travelling all over the field and his 10 tackles?

It is my opinion is you have to point to one player that cost us a win; I pick the guy that wears #14 is stripes. He has played great all season in both wins and loses, but he crapped the bed yesterday. Anyone that objectively watched the game can see it.

But it's OK; I'm sure he will return to his normal Pro Bowl level next time he takes the field. I'm just not one to blame half the team to deflect a poor game by one person. Never have, never will. 

Why don't we just blame the country of England.

What would it take for you to necessarily agree that the D did their job in OT? To me, that was done when they stopped the first drive; anything else was gravy. But folks have differing opinions.

He had a bad game.....but not bad enough that we should have lost.  If he had a Cleveland Browns of a couple years back type bed shitting.....I'd be on board.  Once again.....a TE torched this defense.  Adam Jones had a horrendous day.  Nugent missed a damn XP.  Shawn Williams....no bueno.  Dennard....not so good.  Burfict did not play as well as the tackle numbers indicate in my opinion.  He has been shit all year.

So while I can say a lackluster performance by 14 contributed to the tie.....I certainly cannot say that it was he alone that cost the W.

(10-31-2016, 11:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: He had a bad game.....but not bad enough that we should have lost.  If he had a Cleveland Browns of a couple years back type bed shitting.....I'd be on board.  Once again.....a TE torched this defense.  Adam Jones had a horrendous day.  Nugent missed a damn XP.  Shawn Williams....no bueno.  Dennard....not so good.  Burfict did not play as well as the tackle numbers indicate in my opinion.  He has been shit all year.

So while I can say a lackluster performance by 14 contributed to the tie.....I certainly cannot say that it was he alone that cost the W.

Not sure where anyone (I know I haven't) have said he alone lost the game. Just as I do not think he alone won any games for us where he preformed outstanding. Just looking at the game and picking one person; I pick him. 

(10-31-2016, 11:07 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: Two things come to mind. 1. just a few weeks prior to that game Palmer and Bengals had already beaten the steelers in Pittsburg. 2. You're correct, Palmer did go down after the second pass attempt. But his first pass attempt was a deep bomb completion down the right side to Chris Henry. Yea, I'm convinced we would have won that game if not for the lost of our QB and #2 WR so hate on.

In regards to your "the team was soldiering on until zero halftime adjustments by ML" statement, that's sounds like bar talk to me. Seriously, don't you think Kitna's INT's had a little something to do with that? How would ML's halftime adjustments prevent his QB from throwing INT's? Tell me what was he suppose to do or say at halftime? "Ok team that wraps up my halftime adjustments speech, and oh Jon? don't throw any picks!" ??

Curse ML, call him names, but where were we without him? At home games, lot of our fans wore brown paper bags over their heads. They were too darn embarrassed to be a Bengal fan.  

Bar room talk?  How many beers you had?  You still don't have it right.  It was the second pass play that was completed to Henry.

Better brush up on that halftime score too there man.  We were leading.  Also.....Frank Reich struggled....the Bills fell behind by THIRTY FIVE.  The difference?  They didn't implode.  They were better coached.


Also......if you wanna go that pre ML era nonsense.....where was Marvin after the 2010 season.  How has he been since 2011 when a QB out of TCU showed up?  He is Jim Mora 2.0......Mike Clown is just too stubborn.....or stupid.....to see it.

(10-31-2016, 11:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure where anyone (I know I haven't) have said he alone lost the game. Just as I do not think he alone won any games for us where he preformed outstanding. Just looking at the game and picking one person; I pick him. 

I was just going off this part of your post....

"It is my opinion is you have to point to one player that cost us a win; I pick the guy that wears #14 is stripes. "   
No.....I would say a couple of our wins are due to the combo of him and AJ Green.

(10-31-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well of course there is the dynamic of the D is not a person. 

Is Josh Shaw to blame with his 6 tackles and fine play on the slot receiver?

Is Geno Atkins to blame with his stout run D and sack?

Is Vontaze Burfict to blame with travelling all over the field and his 10 tackles?

It is my opinion is you have to point to one player that cost us a win; I pick the guy that wears #14 is stripes. He has played great all season in both wins and loses, but he crapped the bed yesterday. Anyone that objectively watched the game can see it.

But it's OK; I'm sure he will return to his normal Pro Bowl level next time he takes the field. I'm just not one to blame half the team to deflect a poor game by one person. Never have, never will. 

Why don't we just blame the country of England.

There is no one on the defense who is equivalent to a QB. The defense performs more as a unit, whereas a QB can make or break an offense pretty much by himself.

Dalton is currently 3rd in voting in this thread at 11%. Paulie G is 2nd at 14%. Voting for Paulie is basically equivalent to saying "the defense sucked". Then you have Nugent at a whopping 55%.

Of those 3, my sincere opinion is that - while this was Dalton's worst game of the year - there were still some positives mixed in. The numbers weren't awful. Even though he had a couple bad misses on deep throws, he did hit one. The play fake rush TD was a beauty.

I look at the defense (Guenther) and I see more negatives and fewer positives. Dalton led an offense that put up 27 (should've been 31) points. The defense gave up 27 (should've been 30+) points. Which one is more acceptable?

Nugent had even less to feel good about. You said yourself that Nuge would cost us a game this year. Well...here we are. If Nuge only had one miss, there would've been no OT and therefore no Dalton fumble.

No one is pretending Dalton had a good game. I just view Guenther (a guy I've defended) and Nuge as having more negatives and fewer positives in this particular game.

(10-31-2016, 11:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There is no one on the defense who is equivalent to a QB. The defense performs more as a unit, whereas a QB can make or break an offense pretty much by himself.

Dalton is currently 3rd in voting in this thread at 11%. Paulie G is 2nd at 14%. Voting for Paulie is basically equivalent to saying "the defense sucked". Then you have Nugent at a whopping 55%.

Of those 3, my sincere opinion is that - while this was Dalton's worst game of the year - there were still some positives mixed in. The numbers weren't awful. Even though he had a couple bad misses on deep throws, he did hit one. The play fake rush TD was a beauty.

I look at the defense (Guenther) and I see more negatives and fewer positives. Dalton led an offense that put up 27 (should've been 31) points. The defense gave up 27 (should've been 30+) points. Which one is more acceptable?

Nugent had even less to feel good about. You said yourself that Nuge would cost us a game this year. Well...here we are. If Nuge only had one miss, there would've been no OT and therefore no Dalton fumble.

No one is pretending Dalton had a good game. I just view Guenther (a guy I've defended) and Nuge as having more negatives and fewer positives in this particular game.

Along with half the team I also don't pick a coach when picking best/worst in a game. D had a bad game but I cannot pinpoint one person that really stood out; although in my OP I did lean toward Carlos Dunlap. When the good players underperform; it is more costly and rewarding. Nuge missing a FG is to be expected unfortunately. 

(10-31-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well of course there is the dynamic of the D is not a person. 

Is Josh Shaw to blame with his 6 tackles and fine play on the slot receiver?

Is Geno Atkins to blame with his stout run D and sack?

Is Vontaze Burfict to blame with travelling all over the field and his 10 tackles?

It is my opinion is you have to point to one player that cost us a win; I pick the guy that wears #14 is stripes. He has played great all season in both wins and loses, but he crapped the bed yesterday. Anyone that objectively watched the game can see it.

But it's OK; I'm sure he will return to his normal Pro Bowl level next time he takes the field. I'm just not one to blame half the team to deflect a poor game by one person. Never have, never will. 

Why don't we just blame the country of England.

What would it take for you to necessarily agree that the D did their job in OT? To me, that was done when they stopped the first drive; anything else was gravy. But folks have differing opinions.

Well, the thread is called 'turd of the day' and I think a unit can definitely qualify as a turd. Yes, there were individuals that played OK on defense - at times - but the D overall had a very rough day. 

As for OT...It's fine to give them credit for the first series, because they did their job. It's also fair to criticize them for the second series, where they allowed them to drive down for a short FG attempt. And...when you take the game as a whole...the performance of the defense left a lot to be desired.