(10-31-2016, 03:42 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: or how much most athletes/teams care in general.

I keep seeing people talking about discipline, character, fire, passion, etc. and I just dont think that stuff resonates with a lot of the athletes out there as much as it does with the fans.

Fans are emotionally invested in their teams. They look at the team as a representation of their city and themselves. Most of the athletes in pro sports never grew up cheering or rooting for the team they are currently on and dont share that passion that the fans have.

Sure, athletes are competitive and they want to win but I just dont think they share in that same passion about their team that the fans share. They try their hardest, get their check, and if they win...great, if they lose...they move on with their lives.

A friend of mine does some work for the Bengals and travels with them for most of their games. I asked him what it was like after the Dallas loss, how the mood was on the plane ride home after they got their butts kicked. He responded "just another game".

Obviously players would rather win games than lose games, but I dont think they lose too much sleep over it.

Money has taken away so much from professional sports.  I think the desire to be the best Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Sugar Ray Leonard, Ali, all this is gone.  It is gone sad to say...  but True.

(10-31-2016, 04:51 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, this was unusually disappointing tho. 

“The best lesson learned today for our football team is you just got to keep playing, regardless literally of the situation, football game, where we are, what's going on - just keep playing, go to the next down and keep playing,”


I mean is that even a "best lesson" ? 


Usually it's we've got to play better, but this just sounds like a defeated man IMO.

LOL, this guy is a joke!  Good job Marvin! 

(10-31-2016, 04:49 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Absolutely! Well put.

Unfortunately, if the players are a reflection of their head coach, we are in serious trouble. 

Players are always a reflection of their coaching. Thats why all Marvin Lewis led teams are the same. Every circumstance has changed under Lewis tenure and its always the same outcome. 

Hence, why before the ball was even snapped before game one this year I wasnt expecting anything new because Lewis was still captain of the ship.

And his talent is always crashing into an iceberg...

I think a lot of you just don't understand how different people show disappointment.

Professional athletes play int he public eye. They hate to lose or get beaten in pubic more than anything. They are among the most competitive people on earth. Only the athletes that have this sort of mindset make it in the NFL. The ones that don't care never make it that far.

The fact that they don't all squeal and roll around on the ground kicking and crying does not mean they are not upset. In fact when I played I knew a couple of guys who actually put on a show to try and act like they were more upset than everyone else. I was not the type to squeal and cry after a loss, but I hated it as much as anyone. And I usually worked harder to make sure I did not lose again than the guys who put on a big show in the locker room after a loss.

(10-31-2016, 09:35 PM)Derrick Wrote: This may account for the noticeable drop off of some key players this year. They see that working hard gets the same rewards as players not working hard. So why work hard.

Exactly !

When there's no accountability, there's no expectations. When there's no expectations there's no discipline. When there's no discipline there's chaos. And it shows on the field.

How long are those that care gonna keep beating their heads against the wall for the self serving clowns that truly don't ?

(10-31-2016, 09:35 PM)Derrick Wrote: They see that working hard gets the same rewards as players not working hard. So why work hard.

No they don't see this at all.

You just made this up.

(10-31-2016, 09:39 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Money has taken away so much from professional sports.  I think the desire to be the best Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Sugar Ray Leonard, Ali, all this is gone.  It is gone sad to say...  but True.

Sorry, but no.  Each person you listed was incredibly well compensated for the time they played.  To be the best at anything, not just sports, you must have an innate drive and ambition that makes you get up every day and do more than you did the day before.  It's why a guy like Tom Brady, who is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, continues to play the game.  Why a Derek Jeter plays until he is 40 years old.  Not everyone has that drive, but not everyone has ever had that drive.

(11-01-2016, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they don't see this at all.

You just made this up.

Exactly.  Not working hard does not get you a new contract, it gets you cut.

I think a lot of people overestimates this team period.

(11-01-2016, 04:17 PM)Fresno B Wrote: I think a lot of people overestimates this team period.

Yeah, pretty much.  If they go 2-6 on the back eight I don't know that I'll be all that shocked.

(10-31-2016, 07:32 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Professionals do take their crafts seriously. You'd have to think all NFL players are doing exactly what they wanted in life, so they should be taking it seriously. I don't know anyone who found "their job" and was working for "money". You will bleed sweat for something you love. There is a spottable difference between those who love what they do and those earning a paycheck. The Bengals don't care about that difference, they keep everyone.

If you want to be a legend you have to have talent and work ethic. Work ethic can overcome some talent, but talent cannot overcome work ethic. Those who work hard can overcome talent. The legends have the work ethic to match their natural talent. Who could have been a legend on our team? Geno Atkins, Gio Bernard, and AJ Green. There is nobody else that has the talent level. Andy Dalton appears to have the work ethic but he's pushing his talent to the max and it's not close to Geno/Gio/AJ.

Regardless, who bleeds sweat on our team? AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Giovani Bernard. Who on the Defense? Atkins gets double teamed, so it's hard to tell, I'm guessing he does too. Anyone else? Doubt it. Adam Jones is old.

You better figure out if you want to be legendary early on in life, 20s and early 30s are for cementing those habits. 

You put Gio's talent at the level of Green and Geno. Why?

https://youtu.be/e9mf3Bypyk8



Honestly putting so much time and effort into this franchise is like waking up after 30 years and realizing you've been a Scientologist all this time! So much wasted time and passion for nothing. I'll stop in from time to time but really i like doing other things with my Sundays now. I was finding that i was miserable and sooooo negative, even if they won! I taped games to watch later but dreaded watching them feeling that oh so familiar eventual letdown! Enjoy it but realize it's simply supposed to be ENTERTAINMENT! I wish you all well!

(11-01-2016, 01:31 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Sorry, but no.  Each person you listed was incredibly well compensated for the time they played.  To be the best at anything, not just sports, you must have an innate drive and ambition that makes you get up every day and do more than you did the day before.  It's why a guy like Tom Brady, who is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, continues to play the game.  Why a Derek Jeter plays until he is 40 years old.  Not everyone has that drive, but not everyone has ever had that drive.

Of Course those I listed were.  However they were not getting paid like today's standards their rookie year. However their drive rewarded them nicely. A lot of NBA players are signing major contracts before they even step on the court.  Most of them don't even have the talent as Bill Lambeer but are paid much more.  Example Kwame Brown did not even play a game before he inked in 18 Million dollar contract.  Andrew Luck signed a 5 year, $122,970,000 contract with the Indianapolis Colts, including a $32,000,000 signing bonus, $87,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $24,594,000.  Joe Namath (1965-1977, as quarterback of New York Jets) Highest annual: $427,000 Adjusted: $2,873,207.97 Terry Bradshaw was getting 36,000 dollars a year for 5 years..  Sorry but Yes.  Money HAS corrupted the love of the game on more levels than one...




Team Payrolls
The salary cap for the 85-86 season was $4.23 million.
Team Payroll
1. Los Angeles Lakers $8,579,750
2. New Jersey Nets $6,840,500
3. Philadelphia 76ers $6,825,500
4. New York Knicks $6,691,500
5. Boston Celtics $6,560,000
6. Seattle Supersonics $5,683,333
7. Los Angeles Clippers $4,745,000
8. Detroit Pistons $4,603,666
9. Chicago Bulls $4,486,000
10. Washington Bullets $4,381,383
11. Golden State Warriors $4,365,833
12. Houston Rockets $4,259,000
13. Phoenix Suns $4,189,500
14. San Antonio Spurs $4,052,846
15. Dallas Mavericks $4,052,346
16. Sacramento Kings $4,052,000
17. Cleveland Cavaliers $3,920,666
18. Portland Trailblazers $3,831,000
19. Indiana Pacers $3,758,200
20. Atlanta Hawks $3,671,250
21. Milwaukee Bucks $3,661,332
22. Denver Nuggets $3,425,500
23. Utah Jazz $2,914,500


0 players will earn $3 million or more
3 players will earn $2 to 3 million
10 players will earn $1 to 2 million
The league minimum was $70,000
Average: $370,104 [296 players]


Top 25 players
1. Magic Johnson (LAL) $2,500,000
2. Moses Malone (Phi) $2,145,000
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (LAL) $2,030,000
4. Larry Bird (Bos) $1,800,000
5. Jack Sikma (Sea) $1,600,000
6. Julius Erving (Phi) $1,485,000
7. Patrick Ewing (NY) $1,250,000
8. Ralph Sampson (Hou) $1,165,500
9. Mitch Kupchak (LAL) $1,150,000
10. Otis Birdsong (NJ) $1,100,000
10. Marques Johnson (LAC) $1,100,000
12. Albert King (NJ) $1,035,000
13. Kevin McHale (Bos) $1,000,000
14. Wayman Tisdale (Ind) $987,000
15. Adrian Dantley (Uta) $950,000
16. Bill Cartwright (NY) $925,000
17. Buck Williams (NJ) $915,000
18. Sidney Moncrief (Mil) $884,000
19. Akeem Olajuwon (Hou) $882,500
20. Bernard King (NY) $874,000
21. Alex English (Den) $825,000
22. Darryl Dawkins (NJ) $808,000
23. George Gervin (Chi) $806,000
24. Joe Barry Carroll (GS) $800,000
24. Tom Chambers (Sea) $800,000


NBA SALARIES

Atlanta Hawks Total: $3,671,250
Tree Rollins ................... 743,000
Dominique Wilkins .............. 585,000
Jon Koncak ..................... 475,250
Antoine Carr ................... 335,000
Kevin Willis ................... 298,000
Eddie Johnson .................. 275,000
Randy Wittman .................. 200,000
Cliff Levingston ............... 200,000
Scott Hastings ................. 180,000
Doc Rivers ..................... 170,000
Spud Webb ...................... 70,000
Lorenzo Charles ................ 70,000
John Battle .................... 70,000

Boston Celtics Total: $6,560,000
Larry Bird ..................... 1,800,000
Kevin McHale ................... 1,000,000
Dennis Johnson ................. 782,500
Robert Parish .................. 700,000
Danny Aigne .................... 550,000
Sly Williams ................... 450,000
Bill Walton .................... 425,000
Scott Wedman ................... 400,000
Greg Kite ...................... 150,000
Jerry Sichting ................. 125,000
Rick Carlisle .................. 90,000
Sam Vincent .................... 87,500

Chicago Bulls Total: $4,486,000
George Gervin .................. 806,000
Dave Corzine ................... 710,000
Michael Jordan ................. 630,000
Sidney Green ................... 350,000
Quintin Dailey ................. 325,000
Kyle Macy ...................... 305,000
Orlando Woolridge .............. 300,000
Eugene Banks ................... 225,000
Charles Oakley ................. 225,000
Jawann Oldham .................. 175,000
John Paxson .................... 175,000
Mike Smerk ..................... 135,000
Billy McKinney ................. 125,000

Cleveland Cavaliers Total: $3,920,666
World B. Free .................. 675,000
Mel Turpin ..................... 450,000
Lonnie Shelton ................. 420,000
Johnny Davis ................... 300,000
John Bagley .................... 300,000
Ben Poquette ................... 284,000
Keith Lee ...................... 271,666
Edgar Jones .................... 235,000
Phil Hubbard ................... 225,000
Roy Hinson ..................... 220,000
Ennis Whatley .................. 200,000
Mark West ...................... 150,000
Ronald Anderson ................ 115,000
Dirk Minniefield ............... 75,000

Dallas Mavericks Total: $4,052,346
Mark Aguirre ................... 626,240
Sam Perkins .................... 585,000
James Donaldson ................ 515,000
Rolando Blackman ............... 501,106
Detlef Schrempf ................ 290,000
Jay Vincent .................... 275,000
Dale Ellis ..................... 225,000
Bill Wennington ................ 220,000
Brad Davis ..................... 215,000
Wallace Bryant ................. 200,000 [released]
Uwe Blab ....................... 200,000
Derek Harper ................... 200,000

Denver Nuggets Total: $3,425,500
Alex English ................... 825,000
Calvin Natt .................... 758,000
Danny Schayes .................. 350,000
Wayne Cooper ................... 300,000
T.R. Dunn ...................... 225,000
Blair Rasmussen ................ 202,500
Fat Lever ...................... 185,000
Bill Hanzlik ................... 175,000
Elston Turner .................. 125,000
Mike Evans ..................... 125,000
Willie White ................... 85,000
Pete Williams .................. 70,000

Detroit Pistons Total: $4,603,666
Kelly Tripucka ................. 971,000
Isiah Thomas ................... 750,000
Bill Laimbeer .................. 630,000
Vinnie Johnson ................. 491,666
Rick Mahorn .................... 411,000
John Long ...................... 350,000
Kent Benson .................... 315,000
Earl Cureton ................... 210,000
Joe Dumars ..................... 170,000
Tony Campbell .................. 155,000
Mike Gibson .................... 80,000
Chuck Nevitt ................... 70,000

Golden State Warriors Total: $4,365,833
Joe Barry Carroll .............. 800,000
Purvis Short ................... 545,000
Larry Smith .................... 525,000
Greg Ballard ................... 520,833
Chris Mullin ................... 500,000
Jerome Whitehead ............... 405,000
Sleepy Floyd ................... 250,000
Lester Conner .................. 200,000
Pete VerHoeven ................. 185,000
Terry Teagle ................... 150,000
Gary Plummer ................... 110,000 [released]
Geoff Huston ................... 90,000
Peter Thibeaux ................. 85,000

Houston Rockets Total: $4,259,000
Ralph Sampson .................. 1,165,500
Akeem Olajuwon ................. 882,500
Rodney McCray .................. 495,000
Robert Reid .................... 400,000
John Lucas ..................... 231,000
Lewis Lloyd .................... 215,000
Allen Leavell .................. 200,000
Steve Harris ................... 160,000
Mitchell Wiggins ............... 155,000
Granville Waiters .............. 125,000
Jim Petersen ................... 125,000
Craig Ehlo ..................... 105,000

Indiana Pacers Total: $3,758,200
Wayman Tisdale ................. 987,000
Steve Stipanovich .............. 530,000
Clark Kellogg .................. 476,000
Bill Barnett ................... 294,000
Herb Williams .................. 275,000
Quinn Buckner .................. 223,000
Clint Richardson ............... 205,000
Vern Flemming .................. 200,000
Terence Stansbury .............. 160,000
Bill Martin .................... 150,000
Stuart Gray .................... 143,200
Dwayne McClain ................. 115,000

Los Angeles Clippers Total: $4,745,000
Marques Johnson ................ 1,100,000
Norm Nixon ..................... 650,000
Benoit Benjamin ................ 575,000
Cedric Maxwell ................. 505,000
Derek Smith .................... 375,000
Junior Bridgeman ............... 350,000
Michael Cage ................... 250,000
Kurt Nimphus ................... 225,000
Lancaster Gordon ............... 200,000
Jay Murphy ..................... 130,000
Franklin Edwards ............... 100,000
Jamaal Wilkes .................. 75,000
Dale Wilkinson ................. 70,000
Rory White ..................... 70,000
Jim Thomas ..................... 70,000

Los Angeles Lakers Total: $8,579,750
Magic Johnson .................. 2,500,000
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ............ 2,030,000
Mitch Kupchak .................. 1,150,000
James Worthy ................... 550,000
Maurice Lucas .................. 475,000
Kurt Rambis .................... 450,000
Byron Scott .................... 420,000
Michael Cooper ................. 366,000
Mike McGee ..................... 275,000
Larry Spriggs .................. 135,000
A.C. Green ..................... 128,750
Ronnie Lester .................. 100,000

Milwaukee Bucks Total: $3,661,332
Sidney Moncrief ................ 884,000
Terry Cummings ................. 633,000
Paul Mokeski ................... 370,000
Alton Lister ................... 300,000
Paul Pressey ................... 242,000
Mike Dunleavy .................. 200,000 [released]
Randy Breuer ................... 182,000
Jerry Reynolds ................. 175,332
Ricky Pierce ................... 150,000
Kenny Fields ................... 145,000
Craig Hodges ................... 115,000
Mark McNamara .................. 100,000 [released]
Charles Davis .................. 90,000
Jeff Lamp ...................... 75,000

New Jersey Nets Total: $6,840,500
Otis Birdsong .................. 1,100,000
Albert King .................... 1,035,000
Buck Williams .................. 915,000
Darryl Dawkins ................. 808,000
Michael Ray Richardson ......... 750,000
Mike Gminski ................... 700,000
Mike O'Koren ................... 400,000
Kelvin Ransey .................. 317,500
Darwin Cook .................... 275,000
Mickey Johnson ................. 200,000
Jeff Turner .................... 200,000
George Johnson ................. 70,000
Bobby Cattage .................. 70,000

New York Knicks Total: $6,691,500
Patrick Ewing .................. 1,250,000
Bill Cartwright ................ 925,000
Bernard King ................... 874,000
Pat Cummings ................... 612,500
Rory Sparrow ................... 500,000
James Bailey ................... 500,000
Marvin Webster ................. 450,000
Louis Orr ...................... 425,000
Trent Tucker ................... 300,000
Ernie Grunfeld ................. 275,000
Darrell Walker ................. 265,000
Ken Bannister .................. 105,000
Gerald Wilkins ................. 70,000
Fred Cofield ................... 70,000
Bob Thornton ................... 70,000

Philadelphia 76ers Total: $6,825,500
Moses Malone ................... 2,145,000
Julius Erving .................. 1,485,000
Andrew Toney ................... 710,000
Bobby Jones .................... 500,000
Charles Barkley ................ 437,500
Clemon Johnson ................. 412,000
Maurice Cheeks ................. 395,000
Leon Wood ...................... 253,000
Terry Catledge ................. 150,000
Sedale Threatt ................. 113,000
Paul Thompson .................. 85,000
Greg Stokes .................... 70,000
Voise Winters .................. 70,000

Phoenix Suns Total: $4,189,500
Walter Davis ................... 680,000
Alvan Adams .................... 600,000
James Edwards .................. 500,000
Larry Nance .................... 500,000
Rick Robey ..................... 475,000
Ed Pinckney .................... 300,000
Jay Humphries .................. 222,500
Georgi Glouchkov ............... 175,000
Charles Jones .................. 150,000
Rod Foster ..................... 137,000
Nick Vanos ..................... 125,000 [released]
Bernard Thompson ............... 120,000 [released]
Charles Pittman ................ 105,000
Mike Sanders ................... 100,000

Portland Trailblazers Total: $3,831,000
Kiki Vandeweghe ................ 751,750
Mychal Thompson ................ 595,000
Jim Paxson ..................... 500,000
Clyde Drexler .................. 420,000
Sam Bowie ...................... 400,000
Kenny Carr ..................... 272,250
Darnell Valentine .............. 265,000
Caldwell Jones ................. 157,500
Terry Porter ................... 151,000
Steve Colter ................... 112,500
Ken Johnson .................... 106,000
Jerome Kersey .................. 100,000

Sacramento Kings Total: $4,052,000
Larry Drew ..................... 600,000
Reggie Theus ................... 485,000
Joe Kleine ..................... 450,000
Terry Tyler .................... 450,000
Mike Woodson ................... 375,000
LaSalle Thompson ............... 352,000
Mark Olberding ................. 347,500
Eddie Johnson .................. 325,000
Otis Thorpe .................... 297,500
Rich Kelley .................... 200,000
Michael Adams .................. 85,000
Carl Henry ..................... 85,000

San Antonio Spurs Total: $4,052,846
Mike Mitchell .................. 700,000
Artis Gilmore .................. 669,000
David Greenwood ................ 600,000
Steve Johnson .................. 600,000
Johnny Moore ................... 350,000
Alvin Robertson ................ 233,750
Alfredrick Hughes .............. 177,830
Jon Sunvold .................... 176,000
Jeff Cook ...................... 150,566
Mark Iavaroni .................. 120,000
Mike Brittain .................. 105,000
Tyrone Corbin .................. 85,700
Wes Mathews .................... 85,000

Seattle Supersonics Total: $5,683,333
Jack Sikma ..................... 1,600,000
Tom Chambers ................... 800,000
Xavier McDaniel ................ 525,000
Reggie King .................... 500,000
Al Wood ........................ 450,000
Ricky Sobers ................... 425,000
Danny Vranes ................... 400,000
Gerald Henderson ............... 350,000
Tim McCormick .................. 228,333
Rod Higgins .................... 190,000
Danny Young .................... 75,000
Michael Phelps ................. 70,000
George Johnson ................. 70,000

Utah Jazz Total: $2,914,500
Adrian Dantley ................. 950,000
Mark Eaton ..................... 445,000
Thurl Bailey ................... 260,000
Rickey Green ................... 250,000
Karl Malone .................... 225,000
Jeff Wilkins ................... 214,500
John Stockton .................. 150,000
Steve Hayes .................... 100,000
Fred Roberts ................... 100,000
Robert Hansen .................. 80,000
Pace Mannion ................... 70,000
Carey Scurry ................... 70,000

Washington Bullets Total: $4,381,383
Gus Williams ................... 790,000
Jeff Ruland .................... 783,000
Dan Roundfield ................. 759,250
Cliff Robinson ................. 500,000
Frank Johnson .................. 255,000
Kenneth Green .................. 245,633
Jeff Malone .................... 231,000
Tom McMillen ................... 215,000
Thomas Sewell .................. 150,000
Manute Bol ..................... 137,500
Darren Daye .................... 120,000
Dudley Bradley ................. 100,000
Charles Jones .................. 95,000

One athlete can make more in their rookie year than entire team.

I think part of the problem is that these athletes get pampered from the time they're in high school. Coaches and recruiters kissing their asses, fans kissing their asses, getting paid millions... The hunger and passion is harder to get out of them because they're spoiled. Only great coaches can motivate them consistently.

It also hurts the Bengals that there's no accountability. The GM will never fire himself. The HC has kept his job when he said he would have fired himself. Underperforming position coaches keep jobs for 20 years. Way too much comfort. It spreads down to players as well. Players who keep their jobs despite mediocre play.

Now if you're a player and you see all of this, what's your motivation to push extra hard? When you see everyone from the top down getting by on mediocre? Terrell Owens nailed it way back in 2010..."The problems start from the top down".

Win or Lose......they get paid.....a lot!

(11-02-2016, 10:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think part of the problem is that these athletes get pampered from the time they're in high school. Coaches and recruiters kissing their asses, fans kissing their asses, getting paid millions... The hunger and passion is harder to get out of them because they're spoiled. Only great coaches can motivate them consistently.

It also hurts the Bengals that there's no accountability. The GM will never fire himself. The HC has kept his job when he said he would have fired himself. Underperforming position coaches keep jobs for 20 years. Way too much comfort. It spreads down to players as well. Players who keep their jobs despite mediocre play.

Now if you're a player and you see all of this, what's your motivation to push extra hard? When you see everyone from the top down getting by on mediocre? Terrell Owens nailed it way back in 2010..."The problems start from the top down".

Spoiled my ass.  The guys in the NFL are the hardest workers on their high school and college teams.  They sacrifice their bodies and play with injuries.  They are among the most competitive and highly motivated men in the world.

They also have massive egos that drive them to win at all costs.  They hate getting beaten while on a stage ion front of thousands of people in the stands and millions of people on TV.

I played high school football with a guy who played in the NFL (Alan Wengilkowski) and I played college football with two guys who made it to the NFL (Van Williams, Boyce Green).  I also was acquainted with Fred Weary when he played for the Vols. They were the hardest working guys on their team.  Thay played hurt and they were far from "spoiled".

(11-03-2016, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Spoiled my ass.  The guys in the NFL are the hardest workers on their high school and college teams.  They sacrifice their bodies and play with injuries.  They are among the most competitive and highly motivated men in the world.

They also have massive egos that drive them to win at all costs.  They hate getting beaten while on a stage ion front of thousands of people in the stands and millions of people on TV.

I played high school football with a guy who played in the NFL (Alan Wengilkowski) and I played college football with two guys who made it to the NFL (Van Williams, Boyce Green).  I also was acquainted with Fred Weary when he played for the Vols. They were the hardest working guys on their team.  Thay played hurt and they were far from "spoiled".

I wasn't really referring to players from 40 years ago. In today's era, players are wined and dined, have coaches providing escorts, etc, and actually make millions (not thousands) upon reaching the NFL. Jamie Collins was quoted in a recent interview saying he'd rather play video games than watch football. If you think all these athletes LOVE their sport, you're sadly mistaken. 

(11-03-2016, 07:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  If you think all these athletes LOVE their sport, you're sadly mistaken. 

Not as sadly mistaken as you are to assume that they don't care about winning after all the sacrifices they have made to play in the NFL.

Collins may not care about watching other NFL games, but I guarantee that he HATES being beaten or made to look bad in front of millions of people.

Every NFL draft is full of amazing athletes that flop in the NFL and guys with lesser skills that succeed.  That is because the guys that don't care wash out and the ones that are dedicated to the game replace them.

(10-31-2016, 09:39 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Money has taken away so much from professional sports.  I think the desire to be the best Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Sugar Ray Leonard, Ali, all this is gone.  It is gone sad to say...  but True.

If all they cared about was money then they would be working harder today because there is more money to be made.

There is nothing "true" about your comments at all.

Wait a minute, how would you know?  I specifically remember you stating that you quit the team at Carson Newman because a short, slow LB had no future at the college level.  And that is why you turned your focus to academics and went on to pursue your Juris Doctorate.