(11-15-2016, 06:00 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: So let me get this straight you don't believe having playing time on the football field in an actual game contributes significantly to a players growth? Ogbuehi learned all a rookie needed to know about playing RT at the highest level of the sport from the bench with a playbook in his hand?

Get real. This is reality you can't just plug and play there is such a thing as player development and actually playing the sport with the pros helps a great deal. He isn't up to speed like a 2nd year player should be because he is learning the physical part of the game as if he is a rookie no less coming off of an ACL tear. How was he supposed to learn the physical part of the game on the bench?

I somewhat agree.....but I watched the Cowboys/Stoolers tilt on Sunday....quite a few rooks on each team contributing significantly, and not liabilities.  Ogbuehi was lobbied for by his position coach, he should be better than this.

(11-15-2016, 06:00 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: So let me get this straight you don't believe having playing time on the football field in an actual game contributes significantly to a players growth? Ogbuehi learned all a rookie needed to know about playing RT at the highest level of the sport from the bench with a playbook in his hand?

Get real. This is reality you can't just plug and play there is such a thing as player development and actually playing the sport with the pros helps a great deal. He isn't up to speed like a 2nd year player should be because he is learning the physical part of the game as if he is a rookie no less coming off of an ACL tear. How was he supposed to learn the physical part of the game on the bench?

I believe that Ogbuehi was sold to the fanbase as a "consensus top-10 pick if healthy" when he was drafted injured in the first round. He got a little bit of playing time in 2015, has started all the games so far this year, and has been in the NFL for EIGHTEEN months now, and he's absolutely awful. It has been like 22 months since he tore his ACL.

You are comparing a guy who was supposedly a top-10 pick and has been in the NFL for 18 months with a guy who joined the team this year as an undrafted rookie free agent, and apparently don't see anything wrong with that.

Get real. The reality is, if you use a first round pick on someone, 18 months later they shouldn't embarrass a dumpster fire by them being compared to it.

(11-15-2016, 06:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I believe that Ogbuehi was sold to the fanbase as a "consensus top-10 pick if healthy" when he was drafted injured in the first round. He got a little bit of playing time in 2015, has started all the games so far this year, and has been in the NFL for EIGHTEEN months now, and he's absolutely awful.

You are comparing a guy who was supposedly a top-10 pick and has been in the NFL for 18 months with a guy who joined the team this year as an undrafted rookie free agent, and apparently don't see anything wrong with that.

Get real. The reality is, if you use a first round pick on someone, 18 months later they shouldn't embarrass a dumpster fire by them being compared to it.

Where was the part about the ACL injury? That's reality.

(11-15-2016, 06:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I believe that Ogbuehi was sold to the fanbase as a "consensus top-10 pick if healthy" when he was drafted injured in the first round. He got a little bit of playing time in 2015, has started all the games so far this year, and has been in the NFL for EIGHTEEN months now, and he's absolutely awful. It has been like 22 months since he tore his ACL.

You are comparing a guy who was supposedly a top-10 pick and has been in the NFL for 18 months with a guy who joined the team this year as an undrafted rookie free agent, and apparently don't see anything wrong with that.

Get real. The reality is, if you use a first round pick on someone, 18 months later they shouldn't embarrass a dumpster fire by them being compared to it.

So one player is undrafted and not coming off of major knee surgery one player was drafted last year but didn't play because he had knee surgery. What's the common thread between the two? How do you expect a player to learn the physical part of the game on the bench? Do you believe he isn't at a disadvantage due to his major knee injury?

(11-15-2016, 06:09 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Where was the part about the ACL injury? That's reality.

(11-15-2016, 06:14 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: So one player is undrafted and not coming off of major knee surgery one player was drafted last year but didn't play because he had knee surgery. What's the common thread between the two? How do you expect a player to learn the physical part of the game on the bench? Do you believe he isn't at a disadvantage due to his major knee injury?

The ACL injury that was over 22 months ago? He did play some last year. If they guy wasn't going to be ready to be anything other than a turnstile TWO YEARS LATER, then he was a freaking horrible first round pick regardless.

Either way, he's not "basically" a rookie. Is he capable of winning a ROY award? No? Then he's not a rookie, basically or not.

The only "phyiscal part" of the game he's learned in over 22 months is that people physically just shove his weak ass TF out of the way and destroy the Bengals' franchise QB over and over. Winston is a noticeable upgrade when he's in, and the guy's average at best. That should tell you all you need to know.

(11-15-2016, 06:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The ACL injury that was over 22 months ago? He did play some last year. If they guy wasn't going to be ready to be anything other than a turnstile TWO YEARS LATER, then he was a freaking horrible first round pick regardless.

Either way, he's not "basically" a rookie. Is he capable of winning a ROY award? No? Then he's not a rookie, basically or not.

The only "phyiscal part" of the game he's learned in over 22 months is that people physically just shove his weak ass TF out of the way and destroy the Bengals' franchise QB over and over. Winston is a noticeable upgrade when he's in, and the guy's average at best. That should tell you all you need to know.

Still learning the game as a pro that's a fact. Also basically and literally are two different things of course he can't win RoY but he has a lot of the same disadvantages a rookie does. Just ignore that though and go back to your black and white world were either a player sucks or he doesnt and every rookie should learn at the same pace whether they have spent most of the year on the bench or not.

(11-15-2016, 06:34 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Still learning the game as a pro that's a fact. Also basically and literally are two different things of course he can't win RoY but he has a lot of the same disadvantages a rookie does. Just ignore that though and go back to your black and white world were either a player sucks or he doesnt and every rookie should learn at the same pace whether they have spent most of the year on the bench or not.

Still learning the game as a pro, and will continue to do so until his rookie contract is over because in the land of the Bengals, rookies not helping the team is the expectations, and if one just so happens to help, well that's gravy.

Other teams are starting literal rookies who are undrafted free agents, and still getting better play out of them than Ogbuehi is giving the Bengals.

Not sure how you can't see anything wrong with that.

Part of the problem with Ced is that he is playing on the wrong side of the line.  He's always been a LT and is not built to be a RT like an Andre Smith or Willie Anderson.

As for Erickson, it looks like he is starting to make the adjustment to the speed of NFL regulars, and hopefully can continue to grow in the role as well as grow as a receiver.

(10-17-2016, 08:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lol. No I don't miss Tate.

Yall are being way too hard on this kid. Not only is he a rookie, he's only played 6 games with 13 total returns. So Tate gets 5 years and Erikson gets 13 touches before judgement comes raining down?

Like I said.

Way too early to call the kid a failure. Some were just dying to call out all the Tater haters, and jumped the gun to do so.

Fwiw, Erickson is now averaging 31.3 per kickoff return. I can't remember the last Bengals return guy to average over 30.

EDIT: Just looked it up and Adam Jones averaged 31.3 (a career high) in 2014. I can't think of anyone else though.

(10-17-2016, 05:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I already said the honeymoon with Erickson is over.

That said, the people pining for Tate are getting silly. Adam Jones can't do anything in returns. Huber is making occasional poor punts because he looks like he is hurrying to get the ball off.

That makes this clear it is not a Tate/Erickson thing. This is a ST thing. The Bengals depth is seriously hurt. Let's look at who was good at ST in the past:

-Peerman, hurt
-Lamur, gone
-Williams, forced into a starting role
-Kirkpatrick, became a starter
-Burkhead, hurt on and off all season
-Backup TEs, forced into a bigger role on offense

Guys who were good ST players, but either hurt, gone, or forced into a role they are not as good at, forcing THEIR backups, who would either not make the team, or be inactive/PS are now the ST guys.

It isn't losing Tate or putting in Erickson, it is the loss of depth causing the talent level of the Bengals ST to plummet.

This is the answer, folks. Book it!