Very simple, if you could fire one assistant coach right now - mid-season, who would it be?

Burney or Haslett. They were touted for their experience but they were also unemployed for a reason. You would think Marv has some more connection being in the league this long but apparently he just looked up "Former HCs and coordinators who failed in the NFL." on google.

Even London Fletcher (The ultimate team player.) called Haslett a joke.

Paul Alexander, no question. Been around far too long and sticks up for way too many below average lineman.

(11-16-2016, 12:50 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Paul Alexander, no question. Been around far too long and sticks up for way too many below average lineman.

Alexander and it's not even close.

Although many others need to go bad as well. In fact I'd fire the lot If I could and right now. What difference is it gonna make on this season ? I know some think we're still in it but that's a pipe dream. We're no where near on the level of the top ten and you ain't gonna fix that this season.

:paul:

Paul Alexander without hesitation. Yes there are other positions that are playing poorly but there is no excuse for how bad this offensive line has been. It is just not Ced or Bodine, but it is Whitworth, Boling and Zeitler. They all look like they have no desire to keep Andy upright and plus they are all making stupid penalties that are killing drives. Alexander needs to go and we actually need to find someone who will not put up with all of the mistakes and the poor play from what used to be this team's major strength.

I say we should let Haslett notch at least one season here before we pass judgement.

Alexander needs to be canned outright. At least he has a good fall back plan of fumbling around on the piano and speaking at middle school coaching clinics.

Paul Alexander should of been the manager of a Long John Silvers years ago, cannot believe that man is employed.

Paul Alexander seems to be running away with this. I think it's simply because right now it looks like he has a job until death. Dude has been here since 1994 despite having a pretty constant love for bad OL like Livings, Roland, Bodine, Ogbuehi, etc.

This is really a no brainer. Paul Alexander.. This guy may have been ok in the past?, but it's time for a change. It's very obvious, he is not doing his job and lighting a fire under the OLine's collective arses.

(11-16-2016, 01:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Paul Alexander seems to be running away with this. I think it's simply because right now it looks like he has a job until death. Dude has been here since 1994 despite having a pretty constant love for bad OL like Livings, Roland, Bodine, Ogbuehi, etc.

OMG - Roland was here what 4 or 5 years and he couldn't pass pro against me at DE. Stood straight up at every snap and lost all leverage.

You forgot Gutcheck

All of the hate for Alexander is ridiculous.  I would understand if people were just upset about how the O-line is playing this year, but many are acting like he should have been fired a long time ago.  The fact is that Paul Alexander is well respected around the league for his prowess in coaching pass protection.  In fact he was selected as the best O-line coach in the league by Sports Illustrated earlier this year.


http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs.


If Ogbuehi ends up being a flop (I am not going to judge him until he has at least one healthy training camp) he will be the FIRST ever high draft choice to flop in the 22 years that Paul has been O-line coach.  Considering the number of high draft picks that flop that alone is pretty impressive.

He has also cobbled together serviceable O-lines with a lot of undrafted free agents and middle to late round draft picks.  In '09 three of our starting o-linemen were undrafted free agents with practically zero starting experience (Roland, Cook, Livings).  He has turned multiple 4th round picks into high paid starters (Andrews, Collins, Boling).  Even Rich Braham had been cut by the Cards before the Bengals signed him off the street and Paul turned him into a very valuable starter.  The draft experts criticized the Bengals for taking Levi Jones so high in the first round, but Paul turned him into one of the best LTs in the league.

For the last few years the media has praised our line calling it one of the better units in the league.  The number crunchers at both PFF and Football Outsiders agreed by consistently giving out O-line high grades.

Paul is also a regular presenter at the top O-line Coach seminar (COOL) in the country each year.

Finally here are some excerpts from a feature article Sports Illustrated did on Paul last year.


http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.
......
"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."
......
"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."







Finally, people say that the protection numbers are skewed by Dalton's quick release, but that just is not true.  If Dalton was getting hit a lot immediately after he threw the ball there may be sime substance to that claim, but that was not happening.  Not only were Dalton's sack numbers low, but so were his "QB hits" and "hurries", plus dalton thre the ball deep more than most NFL QBs and that requires longer pass protection.


Pretty much all I hear to back up the position of the haters is "He has been here a long time and he plays the piano."  But neither of those have anything to do with how good a coach he is.  The Patriots had the same O-line coach for 13 years and I ddin't hear anyone saying that he had to go just because he had been there a long time.  and the mocking of his piano skills is ridiculous.  It sounds like the type of stuff middle school boys say.  I wonder if all the people who make fun of PA playing the piano would say the same thing about former Bengals DT Mike Reid?

(11-16-2016, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All of the hate for Alexander is ridiculous.  I would understand if people were just upset about how the O-line is playing this year, but many are acting like he should have been fired a long time ago.  The fact is that Paul Alexander is well respected around the league for his prowess in coaching pass protection.  In fact he was selected as the best O-line coach in the league by Sports Illustrated earlier this year.


http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs.


If Ogbuehi ends up being a flop (I am not going to judge him until he has at least one healthy training camp) he will be the FIRST ever high draft choice to flop in the 22 years that Paul has been O-line coach.  Considering the number of high draft picks that flop that alone is pretty impressive.

He has also cobbled together serviceable O-lines with a lot of undrafted free agents and middle to late round draft picks.  In '09 three of our starting o-linemen were undrafted free agents with practically zero starting experience (Roland, Cook, Livings).  He has turned multiple 4th round picks into high paid starters (Andrews, Collins, Boling).  Even Rich Braham had been cut by the Cards before the Bengals signed him off the street and Paul turned him into a very valuable starter.  The draft experts criticized the Bengals for taking Levi Jones so high in the first round, but Paul turned him into one of the best LTs in the league.

For the last few years the media has praised our line calling it one of the better units in the league.  The number crunchers at both PFF and Football Outsiders agreed by consistently giving out O-line high grades.

Finally here are some excerpts from a feature article Sports Illustrated did on Paul last year.


http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

......


"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."

......

"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."

Finally, people say that the protection numbers are skewed by Dalton's quick release, but that just is not true.  If Dalton was getting hit a lot immediately after he threw the ball there may be sime substance to that claim, but that was not happening.  Not only were Dalton's sack numbers low, but so were his "QB hits" and "hurries", plus dalton thre the ball deep more than most NFL QBs and that requires longer pass protection.





Pretty much all I hear to back up the position of the haters is "He has been here a long time and he plays the piano."  But neither of those have anything to do with how good a coach he is.  The Patriots had the same O-line coach for 13 years and I ddin't hear anyone saying that he had to go just because he had been there a long time.  and the mocking of his piano skills is ridiculous.  It sounds like the type of stuff middle school boys say.  I wonder if all the people who make fun of PA playing the piano would say the same thing about former Bengals DT Mike Reid?

Fred wouldn't fire anyone, stick to the plan man!  

^The Patriots have won 4 Super Bowls, and played in 6. Their coaches deserve their longevity. Ours don't. Marvin and PA have had more than enough time to get us over the hump. It's time for something different.

I guess that I'm all alone on this one, but I went with Kevin Coyle. In my opinion, so single coaching change on this team, from last year to this year, has had more of a negative impact on the team's identity that losing Vance Joseph to be replaced by Kevin Coyle.

(11-16-2016, 01:59 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Fred wouldn't fire anyone, stick to the plan man!  

I'd fire Haslett immediately.

Thanks for showing how much you know.

(11-16-2016, 02:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I guess that I'm all alone on this one, but I went with Kevin Coyle.  In my opinion, so single coaching change on this team, from last year to this year, has had more of a negative impact on the team's identity that losing Vance Joseph to be replaced by Kevin Coyle.

Losing Reggie Nelson and Pacman's age catching up to him have to be factored in though. 

At least Kirkpatrick has actually taken a step forward this season. Ofc it's probably motivated by wanting to get paid.

(11-16-2016, 02:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: ^The Patriots have won 4 Super Bowls, and played in 6. Their coaches deserve their longevity. Ours don't. Marvin and PA have had more than enough time to get us over the hump. It's time for something different.

Firing people just for the sake of change does not help anything.

Look at how long Whitworth has been here without winning a playoff game.  Were you saying we should have gotten rid of him also?  Dalton, Green, Atkins, and Dunlap are all 0-5 in playoffs.  Should we get rid of them also?

(11-16-2016, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All of the hate for Alexander is ridiculous.  I would understand if people were just upset about how the O-line is playing this year, but many are acting like he should have been fired a long time ago.  The fact is that Paul Alexander is well respected around the league for his prowess in coaching pass protection.  In fact he was selected as the best O-line coach in the league by Sports Illustrated earlier this year.


http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs.


If Ogbuehi ends up being a flop (I am not going to judge him until he has at least one healthy training camp) he will be the FIRST ever high draft choice to flop in the 22 years that Paul has been O-line coach.  Considering the number of high draft picks that flop that alone is pretty impressive.

He has also cobbled together serviceable O-lines with a lot of undrafted free agents and middle to late round draft picks.  In '09 three of our starting o-linemen were undrafted free agents with practically zero starting experience (Roland, Cook, Livings).  He has turned multiple 4th round picks into high paid starters (Andrews, Collins, Boling).  Even Rich Braham had been cut by the Cards before the Bengals signed him off the street and Paul turned him into a very valuable starter.  The draft experts criticized the Bengals for taking Levi Jones so high in the first round, but Paul turned him into one of the best LTs in the league.

For the last few years the media has praised our line calling it one of the better units in the league.  The number crunchers at both PFF and Football Outsiders agreed by consistently giving out O-line high grades.

Paul is also a regular presenter at the top O-line Coach seminar (COOL) in the country each year.

Finally here are some excerpts from a feature article Sports Illustrated did on Paul last year.


http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.
......
"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."
......
"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."







Finally, people say that the protection numbers are skewed by Dalton's quick release, but that just is not true.  If Dalton was getting hit a lot immediately after he threw the ball there may be sime substance to that claim, but that was not happening.  Not only were Dalton's sack numbers low, but so were his "QB hits" and "hurries", plus dalton thre the ball deep more than most NFL QBs and that requires longer pass protection.


Pretty much all I hear to back up the position of the haters is "He has been here a long time and he plays the piano."  But neither of those have anything to do with how good a coach he is.  The Patriots had the same O-line coach for 13 years and I ddin't hear anyone saying that he had to go just because he had been there a long time.  and the mocking of his piano skills is ridiculous.  It sounds like the type of stuff middle school boys say.  I wonder if all the people who make fun of PA playing the piano would say the same thing about former Bengals DT Mike Reid?

(11-16-2016, 02:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd fire Haslett immediately.

Thanks for showing how much you know.

Change for the sake of change?