(11-17-2016, 02:51 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Dude, please tell me you're joking.  Ced gets ran over, by and through most of the DE's he's faced this year.  He has no idea what a stunt is or how to counter it, and he is hysterically slow at getting into his pass-pro.  It would be a catastrophe if the guy played a single down at LT.  Ever.

Earlier this season I defended him, imploring the staff to continue to give the kid a chance to learn and acclimate to the pro game.  But it is beyond obvious he just doesn't have it.

Oh, where are my rocks so I can throw them at you.

To make up the damage, you now must implore the staff, for the good of Andy Dalton's health, if for no other reason, to sit and deactivate Ced and activate this Westerman kid and get him some practice reps at Center.

(11-18-2016, 12:03 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh, where are my rocks so I can throw them at you.

To make up the damage, you now must implore the staff, for the good of Andy Dalton's health, if for no other reason, to sit and deactivate Ced and activate this Westerman kid and get him some practice reps at Center.

Unfortunately Alexander is sending all my calls to voicemail (I guess he's back to perusing this message board).  I think we are stuck seeing Ced in there.

To all of Bengaldom: My sincerest apologies.

(11-18-2016, 12:08 AM)JumboTron Wrote: Unfortunately Alexander is sending all my calls to voicemail (I guess he's back to perusing this message board).  I think we are stuck seeing Ced in there.

To all of Bengaldom: My sincerest apologies.

LOL

(11-17-2016, 09:22 PM)J24 Wrote: Maybe because he is under contract here and he has a nice gig here. Also the Bengals can block anymove unless it's for head coach.

Um.....in 24 years....all he had to do was not sign an extension.  A nice gig?  No playoff wins in 25 years is a nice gig for someone who SHOULD be competitive enough to want a ring?  Isn't that what playing and coaching at this level is all about?  If he's comfortable here....then that's another reason to ship him out.  If he doesn't have the desire to win the hardware because he has a "nice gig".....he's too complacent in mediocrity.

(11-17-2016, 04:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since we are discussing PFF rankings I thin I should point out that this is probably why PA keeps his job.

From last year

http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

Oh so now PFF rankings matter?

I stayed at Paul Alexander's cabin in New York this past weekend.

Should have left some surprises in the bathrooms.

(11-18-2016, 12:00 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I stayed at Paul Alexander's cabin in New York this past weekend.

Should have left some surprises in the bathrooms.

Were you eating a tuna sandwich on rye? Lol

(11-18-2016, 10:21 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Oh so now PFF rankings matter?

PFF Unit rankings have always mattered.

They are not flawed like the individual rankings.

(11-18-2016, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF Unit rankings have always mattered.

They are not flawed like the individual rankings.

That makes sense...... 

LOL, wow.

(11-17-2016, 07:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pretty sure that the unit rankings are not just a compilation of individual rankings.  This same thing came up before when people accused me of picking and choosing when I would accept PFF rankings as valid.
I may be wrong, but do you have a link to explain how they come up with their unit rankings.

The information is provided with the link in the OP. From PFF (talking about O-line metrics used prior to the newest release, which started this week):

'In the past when we have brought you offensive line rankings, they have been based purely on the play-by-play grading of each player on each play over the season. Entering Week 11, however, we are going to focus on things through a slightly different lens.'

They've now changed things up a bit in what metrics they'll use going forward:

'The team of Pro Football Focus analysts has crafted a metric that looks solely at the offensive line using some of the more in-depth and complex data in PFF’s database to come up with a statistical way of evaluating line play, as well as a more subjective grading one.

This PFF O-Line metric assesses the performance of each line in the run game, as well as how well they are pass protecting their QB, all while adjusting for the quality of opponent.'

(11-18-2016, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF Unit rankings have always mattered.

They are not flawed like the individual rankings.

(11-18-2016, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The information is provided with the link in the OP. From PFF (talking about O-line metrics used prior to the newest release, which started this week):

'In the past when we have brought you offensive line rankings, they have been based purely on the play-by-play grading of each player on each play over the season. Entering Week 11, however, we are going to focus on things through a slightly different lens.'

They've now changed things up a bit in what metrics they'll use going forward:

'The team of Pro Football Focus analysts has crafted a metric that looks solely at the offensive line using some of the more in-depth and complex data in PFF’s database to come up with a statistical way of evaluating line play, as well as a more subjective grading one.

This PFF O-Line metric assesses the performance of each line in the run game, as well as how well they are pass protecting their QB, all while adjusting for the quality of opponent.'

(11-18-2016, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They've now changed things up a bit in what metrics they'll use going forward:

'The team of Pro Football Focus analysts has crafted a metric that looks solely at the offensive line using some of the more in-depth and complex data in PFF’s database to come up with a statistical way of evaluating line play, as well as a more subjective grading one.

This PFF O-Line metric assesses the performance of each line in the run game, as well as how well they are pass protecting their QB, all while adjusting for the quality of opponent.'

Very fancy way of saying "we are going to put more emphasis on whether a unit can limit TFLs and hits on the QB, and if you give up a lot of either to a bad team we are going to hammer you."

Adjusting for the quality of opponent is interesting.  I would be interested in seeing the specific metrics used in judging a particular team's "quality".  

(11-18-2016, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The information is provided with the link in the OP. From PFF (talking about O-line metrics used prior to the newest release, which started this week):

'In the past when we have brought you offensive line rankings, they have been based purely on the play-by-play grading of each player on each play over the season. Entering Week 11, however, we are going to focus on things through a slightly different lens.'

They've now changed things up a bit in what metrics they'll use going forward:

'The team of Pro Football Focus analysts has crafted a metric that looks solely at the offensive line using some of the more in-depth and complex data in PFF’s database to come up with a statistical way of evaluating line play, as well as a more subjective grading one.

This PFF O-Line metric assesses the performance of each line in the run game, as well as how well they are pass protecting their QB, all while adjusting for the quality of opponent.'

Which means the old unit rankings were flawed......

(11-17-2016, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PFF wrote an article on offensive line rankings this season entering week 11.
They ranked the Bengals OL at 23 with a grade of 67.0.

Here are a few key things they point out...
- Whitworth is currently ranked their second-best OT behind Trent Williams
- Ogbuehi has allowed seven sacks and 32 total QB pressures in just nine games
- Bodine has allowed more sacks than all other centers in the league

Article here - https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-11/

I think Whitworth needs to be re-signed this offseason because I don't think the Bengals can afford to have a turnstile at both OT positions next year.
It's also time to try and find a replacement for Bodine in the offseason. He's had a good three seasons now to make progress and hasn't improved enough.
I also think a more traditional RT needs to be found (via draft or FA) and do what was originally planned (IIRC) and groom Ogbuehi at LT.

I usually don't put much stock in PFF but...

Surprised Whit has played that well. Yeah, re-sign him.

Also thought Bodine was getting a little better but that means he is not. I agree have to find a replacement at Center.

Need to also get another OT in the draft to insure that we are not just tied to Og and Fisher who have been bad this year.

(11-18-2016, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The information is provided with the link in the OP. From PFF (talking about O-line metrics used prior to the newest release, which started this week):

'In the past when we have brought you offensive line rankings, they have been based purely on the play-by-play grading of each player on each play over the season. Entering Week 11, however, we are going to focus on things through a slightly different lens.'

They've now changed things up a bit in what metrics they'll use going forward:

'The team of Pro Football Focus analysts has crafted a metric that looks solely at the offensive line using some of the more in-depth and complex data in PFF’s database to come up with a statistical way of evaluating line play, as well as a more subjective grading one.

This PFF O-Line metric assesses the performance of each line in the run game, as well as how well they are pass protecting their QB, all while adjusting for the quality of opponent.'

Run blocking, pass blocking - we suck badly at both. Deserved a lower grade in my estimation.

(11-17-2016, 02:52 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Paul Alexander would disagree.



He is the best offensive line coach eevvvvvvvaaaaarrrrrr!

Just curious. Who coaches Andrew Whitworth?

(11-18-2016, 10:26 PM)xxlt Wrote: Just curious. Who coaches Andrew Whitworth?

Being good 1/5 (20%) of the time isn't even acceptable in baseball. Let alone football.

(11-18-2016, 10:26 PM)xxlt Wrote: Just curious. Who coaches Andrew Whitworth?

Dave Shula was also Tim McGee's position coach and then became HC while Anthony Munoz was the LT.  So I suppose he was a good coach too right?

(11-17-2016, 03:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well......we must remember, PFF rankings only matter some of the time.......

There's a level of play where rankings don't matter at all because it's several levels below acceptable.

The #23 ranking doesn't really convey the true suck factor this OL brings to the game.

(11-18-2016, 10:26 PM)xxlt Wrote: Just curious. Who coaches Andrew Whitworth?

Nick Vigil.