Do any of you think our players hold each other accountable for poor performance? If so, who do you think is holding them accountable? The only recent example I can think of is AJ saying that the line has to give Andy more time, but there may also be things going on behind the scenes as well.

I hear a lot of crying about "lack of accountability" but I don't really know what that means.

I am 100% certain that when a players messes up coaches address the problem and try to fix it, but I don't know what else everyone wants to happen. Do they want players telling each other that they suck. Do they want them to physically punish each other? Do they want them to throw teammates under the buss to the media and fans? Do they want every starter that messes up to be benched, and if so for how long? Do they want every player that messes up to be released?

Since I don't see any other teams doing any of this I wonder what exactly fans want to happen when they talk about "holding someone accountable".

The only player I ever see consistently doing so on the the field/sidelines is Burfict.

(11-20-2016, 11:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The only player I ever see consistently doing so on the the field/sidelines is Burfict.

The problem with players doing this is that none of them are perfect.  If you were a player on the Bengals how would you feel if Burfict yelled at you when you knew that he screwed up as often as anyone else.

It takes a very unique player to be able to criticize other players.  Maybe someone like Whit, but even then he should stick to correcting other O-linemen.  No O-lineman wants a WR who has been known to drop a few passes telling them how to block.

(11-20-2016, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of crying about "lack of accountability" but I don't really know what that means.

I am 100% certain that when a players messes up coaches address the problem and try to fix it, but I don't know what else everyone wants to happen.  Do they want players telling each other that they suck.  Do they want them to physically punish each other? Do they want them to throw teammates under the buss to the media and fans?  Do they want every starter that messes up to be benched, and if so for how long?  Do they want every player that messes up to be released?

Since I don't see any other teams doing any of this I wonder what exactly fans want to happen when they talk about "holding someone accountable".

Of course you want the players to tell each other when they're playing shitty. When you're trying to win games, no point in trying to protect feelings. You don't have to be so brazen as to start a conflict, but I think a good team will communicate to itself when certain aspects are under-performing. Physically punish? That just seems ridiculous. As far as throwing under the bus to media/fans, I think that depends on whether they feel the coaches are actually addressing the issues. We both know that sometimes changes have had to be forced here in Cincinnati with that very method. I think if a starter is under-peforming it is perfectly reasonable to bench them and give their backup a shot. People always say "The coaches know how good the players are because they seem them in practice", but at this point why not actually give it a shot in order to reaffirm (or not) how you've evaluated the player? As to whether you release a player who is performing poorly, it depends on whether you have legitimate options to replace them with and maintain depth by the next game.

It doesn't seem like you want to actually have a conversation, but rather impose your viewpoint before the thread even gets started. How about you let me do the job of tending to the thread that I created and stop attacking an argument that hasn't even been made yet. Stop carrying over your vendettas between threads, it is annoying.

(11-20-2016, 11:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The only player I ever see consistently doing so on the the field/sidelines is Burfict.

I agree. Burfict definitely will let others know when they're not cutting it, and I hope the same is relayed to him when he makes a mistake.

(11-20-2016, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of crying about "lack of accountability" but I don't really know what that means.

I am 100% certain that when a players messes up coaches address the problem and try to fix it, but I don't know what else everyone wants to happen.  Do they want players telling each other that they suck.  Do they want them to physically punish each other? Do they want them to throw teammates under the buss to the media and fans?  Do they want every starter that messes up to be benched, and if so for how long?  Do they want every player that messes up to be released?

Since I don't see any other teams doing any of this I wonder what exactly fans want to happen when they talk about "holding someone accountable".

Here's a little crying that I would make:

Bill Belichick will either sit or release a player that fumbles.  And his team doesn't fumble the ball often.  That is players being held accountable and that is a positive impact from said accountability.  

(11-20-2016, 11:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Here's a little crying that I would make:

Bill Belichick will either sit or release a player that fumbles.  And his team doesn't fumble the ball often.  That is players being held accountable and that is a positive impact from said accountability.  

Well said. Thank you for actually contributing to the thread. Bill definitely holds his players accountable and you can see the success of his team as a result of that.

(11-20-2016, 11:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Here's a little crying that I would make:

Bill Belichick will either sit or release a player that fumbles.  And his team doesn't fumble the ball often.  That is players being held accountable and that is a positive impact from said accountability.  

Speaking of Bill, I've only seen him lose his cool one time and that was when they had the 'replacement refs' and those refs gave that TD to Seattle at the end of the game beating the Pats.

I don't watch the Pats all that much, but has anyone ever seen him go off on the refs or lose his cool?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/19/report-patriots-left-jabaal-sheard-behind-due-to-performance/

Belichick doesn't play games. Meanwhile giggles just doesn't care anymore and it shows.

(11-20-2016, 11:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Here's a little crying that I would make:

Bill Belichick will either sit or release a player that fumbles.  And his team doesn't fumble the ball often.  That is players being held accountable and that is a positive impact from said accountability.  

When was the last time Belichick benched or released a player for fumbling.  I guarantee you it was a scrub who he had just plugged into his system.  He never benched Brady or Gronk for fumbling.

(11-20-2016, 11:22 AM)treee Wrote: It doesn't seem like you want to actually have a conversation, but rather impose your viewpoint before the thread even gets started. How about you let me do the job of tending to the thread that I created and stop attacking an argument that hasn't even been made yet. Stop carrying over your vendettas between threads, it is annoying.

I do want to have a conversation.  I just did not understand what we were discussing.  I see the term "no accountability" thrown around here a lot, but I honestly did not know what people meant by "holding someone accountable".  Especialy since the entire premis of this thread was based on Green criticizing the O-line.

I am pretty sure that if a team could fix any problem just by telling the media they had a problem then no team would have any problems.  So i really don't see how this will fix anything.  

Do you really think the O-line has been sitting around saying "We are not going to try and fix any problems because no one knows we are messing up."

Not sure if it happens, but this is what should happen:

The team elects 3 Captains (O,D,ST) and those players hold members of their squad accountable. The Captain does need to be the most talented on that squad, just the most respected and winning the vote does that.

(11-20-2016, 12:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I do want to have a conversation.  I just did not understand what we were discussing.  I see the term "no accountability" thrown around here a lot, but I honestly did not know what people meant by "holding someone accountable".  Especialy since the entire premis of this thread was based on Green criticizing the O-line.

I am pretty sure that if a team could fix any problem just by telling the media they had a problem then no team would have any problems.  So i really don't see how this will fix anything.  

Do you really think the O-line has been sitting around saying "We are not going to try and fix any problems because no one knows we are messing up."

I think there was miscommunication about a couple things in my post Fred. When I said sometimes it is necessary to get the media involved, is when a player feels like an organization is not taking to correct steps to field a winning football team. We have seen this happen a couple times here before. I'm not necessarily advocating that it happen now, I was just answering your question about if it was a legitimate way to hold someone accountable.

As to the last part of your post, I'm not sure how they interact with each other. That is why I made the thread. I find it interesting and wanted to have a discussion about it.

Eventually you'll realize Fred that I don't make Homer/Hater threads so you don't have to bring that mentality to them. I know it can be difficult to get out of that mindset when many portions of the discussion are so polarized.

Cheers.

(11-20-2016, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure if it happens, but this is what should happen:

The team elects 3 Captains (O,D,ST) and those players hold members of their squad accountable. The Captain does need to be the most talented on that squad, just the most respected and winning the vote does that.

So you're saying that perhaps that is the point of electing the captains. Makes sense. So I guess the question becomes, are our captains holding everyone accountable? Or is it just an elephant in the room a lot of the time?

Marvin has never held his players accountable. Never has, never will.

(11-20-2016, 12:31 PM)treee Wrote: Eventually you'll realize Fred that I don't make Homer/Hater threads so you don't have to bring that mentality to them. I know it can be difficult to get out of that mindset when many portions of the discussion are so polarized.

Cheers.

Eventually you will realize that it is possible for people to ask legitimate questions without just being a hater or homer.

Nothing in my question had anything to do with being a hater or a homer.  Maybe you should just read my question instead of attacking me for daring to question something I honestly do not understand.

(11-20-2016, 12:07 PM)JumboTron Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/19/report-patriots-left-jabaal-sheard-behind-due-to-performance/

Belichick doesn't play games.  Meanwhile giggles just doesn't care anymore and it shows.

That's hardcore accountability, right there.

(11-20-2016, 12:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Eventually you will realize that it is possible for people to ask legitimate questions without just being a hater or homer.

Nothing in my question had anything to do with being a hater or a homer.  Maybe you should just read my question instead of attacking me for daring to question something I honestly do not understand.

Oh, so you threw a barrage of questions at me (attack them physically? seriously?) under the guise that you were trying to have conversation when in reality it was very obvious what you were doing. You can either be petty, pretend not to know what I'm talking about, and ruin yet another thread, or you can actually make the boards a better place by participating in a decent manner. I don't have the patience to constantly have to combat your antagonistic ways. It is about time someone on here called you out in a respectful and concise manner. I'm sure there are many members who will back me up on this.

(11-20-2016, 12:36 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Marvin has never held his players accountable. Never has, never will.

What do you mean by "hold accountable"?

I am not trying to start an argument.  I honestly do not know what you mean.  Do you think he should rip them to the media?  Release them?  Bench them?