(11-29-2016, 07:31 PM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: It was also the rookie QBS first 4 games of his career.  I think he did pretty darn well considering.  And the team never took the training wheels of him..  And if Marvin didn't go super conservative Marv in the second half of the Broncos gm last year he would have been 3-1.  Now I'm not saying McCarron is the answer but its not fair to judge him on his first four games of his career.  The guy did a  bang up job considering the situation he was thrown into as a rookie

Yeah... Marvin was way too conservative in that Denver game. Remember when he switched Denver's secondary to a zone? McCarran couldn't do shit with that. Then when Marvin told him to ef up the snap on the last play... That was waaay too conservative.

(11-29-2016, 11:32 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Is there a limit on the amount of accounts one person can have? Because someone has way too many.

You'll see a lot more posts like that. People are pissed off. Get used to it.

(11-29-2016, 07:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Carson was 35 last year and coming off the best season of his career. He folded like a lawn chair. Fwiw, I see Palmer and Dalton as equals. Palmer had a better arm, Dalton more athleticism and mastery of the offense. Palmer had to wear a wristband with plays. Palmer threw a better spiral, Dalton is less prone to turnovers. The numbers overall are extremely similar, which proves there's more than one way to get it done. 

The Bengals managed to break both.

When you have the skills to run every play in the book the book is a lot thicker. The play selection Dalton can perform is a lot less than Carson's...just saying!

This thread would have no issue if it were called Dalton is good. It is the "really" part that makes it silly. 

(11-30-2016, 12:31 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: When you have the skills to run every play in the book the book is a lot thicker. The play selection Dalton can perform is a lot less than Carson's...just saying!

This thread would have no issue if is were called Dalton is good. It is the "really" part that makes it silly. 

It seems like you're implying Palmer is more intelligent than Dalton. I got the opposite impression.

Some guy said carson is equal to dalton. No sorry I'm not a Palmer fan anymore, I wouldn't want him back.but him and dalton are two different qbs. Carson's problems really started after the injury to the elbow he never got fixed, it took away some of the strength in his throws, where he used to fit it in spots he wanted because of talent. Now his balls float. Causing all kinds of ints, but still Carson was made to be a pocket passer, hes big enough, and tall, and goes through his reads, and better footwork and mechanics. Nobody can tell me Andy is a good pocket passer. That's what gruden and zampese both tried to do with him. Except with gruden we had the summer defense on our side. Now zimmer took that to Minnesota, and is winning with Bradford, who's been horrible his NFL career as a starter.

You can't blame the o line for the past 6 years on batted down balls either.give me a break. He's been the king of batted down balls his whole career, and in big playoff games. I already know we ain't winning nothing with him, wild card game at most, he's just not good enough. He's like the Ginger bread man, crumbles under pressure.God he pissed me off last game.

(11-30-2016, 12:43 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You can't blame the o line for the past 6 years on batted down balls either.give me a break. He's been the king of batted down balls his whole career, and in big playoff games. I already know we ain't winning nothing with him, wild card game at most, he's just not good enough. He's like the Ginger bread man, crumbles under pressure.God he pissed me off last game.

Amen!

(11-30-2016, 12:43 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You can't blame the o line for the past 6 years on batted down balls either.give me a break. He's been the king of batted down balls his whole career, and in big playoff games. I already know we ain't winning nothing with him, wild card game at most, he's just not good enough. He's like the Ginger bread man, crumbles under pressure.God he pissed me off last game.

Remember 2011 playoff game when he throw the ball right to AJ Twat oops i mean Watt.  Who would of known it was a sign of things to come. At that time I still thought Andy was going to improve.  But he has not. He's still doing some of the same things.

(11-29-2016, 11:43 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... Marvin was way too conservative in that Denver game. Remember when he switched Denver's secondary to a zone? McCarran couldn't do shit with that. Then when Marvin told him to ef up the snap on the last play... That was waaay too conservative.

You can try and twist it any way you want....he went conservative!!  

(11-30-2016, 12:54 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: Remember 2011 playoff game when he throw the ball right to AJ Twat oops i mean Watt.  Who would of known it was a sign of things to come. At that time I still thought Andy was going to improve.  But he has not. He's still doing some of the same things.

Yes remember it vividly,I thought he'd improve too cause he was a rookie. Nope continued to be the king of batted down balls. And other stuff as well. 

(11-30-2016, 01:01 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: You can try and twist it any way you want....he went conservative!!  

That ain't spin man....that's what happened.  We were torching man coverage in the first half.  After halftime....they came out in zone and McCarron couldn't read it.  That's why we went scoreless in the second half.  

(11-30-2016, 12:34 AM)treee Wrote: It seems like you're implying Palmer is more intelligent than Dalton. I got the opposite impression.

Ditto, and claiming Palmer had a substantially expanded playbook due to his arm is a silly made up claim to explain away the cheat sheet he's always had to use. Does every strong armed QB use a cheat sheet? No.

This doesn't mean Palmer was a bad QB, but he had weaknesses just like Dalton and just about any other good-but-not-elite QB.

To those saying Dalton is the king of batted balls, name a game where he had several batted down, other than this last one and his playoff game when he was a rookie. You can't, and that's why you had to go back 5 years to name another example.

(11-30-2016, 01:43 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ditto, and claiming Palmer had a substantially expanded playbook due to his arm is a silly made up claim to explain away the cheat sheet he's always had to use. Does every strong armed QB use a cheat sheet? No.

To those saying Dalton is the king of batted balls, name a game where he had several batted down, other than this last one and his playoff game when he was a rookie. You can't, and that's why you had to go back 5 years to name another example.

It's comical to read that some people think they know it all....yet think the line has no culpability in batted passes.  Makes one wonder how many ever played a down of organized ball.....I mean that shit is taught in pee wee league if your coaches were worth a damn.

(11-29-2016, 03:40 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Anything good posted about dalton right now Burns me up.  He straight choked the last game. A game we could of still had a little life left if won.  Andy dalton choked. It wasn't about nobody but dalton. O line gave him protection on that last drive.  4 batted down passes on the final drive. 10 batted down passes in the game. 4 damn fumbles in the game. I think a int too if I'm not mistaken.

I get that his favorite security blanket was gone. And his favorite little dump off back he throws too.  I get that the o line has been pretty bad this year. Ced and bodine mostly. But listen, I know what Andy dalton is at this point. This is the 6the year, this is who he is. Does he ever have plays where your like wow!!  Ever?  No. I've watched coaches tape of him being a one read qb, then he doesn't look to throw. He locks on to his receiver. One big reason for the batted down balls. Accuracy is still shaky. One pass he hits a guy good, the next pass he can't hit the rb on a out route. Completely crap pass.  I've seen him not find the blitz. I've seen him have bad footwork. Andy dalton is part of the problem this year. Last year in hues offense he was good, I thought I was wrong.  Andy dalton looks scared in big moments, no leadership skills, or pocket awareness seeing guys coming for him. He can run some times that's his biggest asset.  But not a speedster. I was really pissed at dalton after the game. And I seen a lot that seen the same thing, on cincy jungle and my group on facebook.but since its tuesday,people want to sweep that under the rug,and pretend it was everyone elses fault.

What more do we need to surround dalton with.do we need mike williams out of clemson,do we need a o line that dont let no pressure come at all.come on this is the nfl,you will always get pressured some.

We can build the most perfect team around dalton,and have the best coaches,and from what ive witnessed and know,i do not trust him to get a wild card win,definitely not two in a row.sorry i dont see it.but im stuck with the guy as my qb,till some coach says otherwise.

I applaud you bro couldnt say it better!

(11-29-2016, 11:32 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Is there a limit on the amount of accounts one person can have? Because someone has way too many.

I dont understand.... but yea

(11-30-2016, 01:43 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ditto, and claiming Palmer had a substantially expanded playbook due to his arm is a silly made up claim to explain away the cheat sheet he's always had to use. Does every strong armed QB use a cheat sheet? No.

This doesn't mean Palmer was a bad QB, but he had weaknesses just like Dalton and just about any other good-but-not-elite QB.

To those saying Dalton is the king of batted balls, name a game where he had several batted down, other than this last one and his playoff game when he was a rookie. You can't, and that's why you had to go back 5 years to name another example.

So now you want me to go look up games since you know I don't have the exact games in front of me lol man I watched every game for the past 6 years, if you don't know this is common. You are dismissed from this convo.cause obviously you don't have a clue on what's going on. 

(11-30-2016, 01:46 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's comical to read that some people think they know it all....yet think the line has no culpability in batted passes.  Makes one wonder how many ever played a down of organized ball.....I mean that shit is taught in pee wee league if your coaches were worth a damn.

I think that's some of you on here, to think it's not Dalton's fault. Dalton does no wrong to y'all. Throw everyone under the bus except dalton. Then if someone talks about dalton claim they know nothing .y'all are clowns.

(11-30-2016, 02:41 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I think that's some of you on here, to think it's not Dalton's fault. Dalton does no wrong to y'all. Throw everyone under the bus except dalton. Then if someone talks about dalton claim they know nothing .y'all are clowns.

Actually batted balls can also be in part due to offensive lineman. There was one play where Whit didn't even engage in the defender and he stayed a step away just to try and bat the ball.

If an offensive lineman does not stay engaged or push, then there can be problems. We saw defenders jump but yet our offensive lineman stayed put instead of pushing them while they had leverage.

And also, some passes defended were also good defensive plays. It's not always someone's fault on offense, sometimes the defense makes a good play.

More players are the reason for those batted balls. Dalton is a part of it, but not solely on him.

Also, he really isn't the king of batted balls. He actually rarely gets balls batted down. Not sure why people think this outside of last week's game.

Has anyone else noticed how that was never a problem with our past offensive lines?

(11-30-2016, 02:41 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I think that's some of you on here, to think it's not Dalton's fault. Dalton does no wrong to y'all. Throw everyone under the bus except dalton. Then if someone talks about dalton claim they know nothing .y'all are clowns.

Here's a notion for you.....clown.  It's a TEAM game.  In fact, no other sport relies so heavily on teamwork.  As I have said numerous times, some of it is on the qb, some on RBs missing blocks, etc, some on the o line, every WR in the league runs a wrong route at times, drops a pass.  Every component effects the others....the timing, the trust that the target will be where it's supposed to be, the QB will throw it where it's supposed to go, the linemen will block the correct assignment, no one jumps offsides, someone will pick up a blitz, the COACHES do their job to maximize the use of talent and put players in a position to succeed, all the way down to the strength coach and trainers properly treating and conditioning players. It's a TEAM sport.  The only people looking like clowns are the ones that can't realize this simple fact.  If a person can't look at the guy's numbers and tell that he is a pretty good player, then I really don't know what to tell them.  I'll say it again.....I wonder how many of these "experts" have ever played a down of organized ball.

(11-30-2016, 06:26 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Actually batted balls can also be in part due to offensive lineman. There was one play where Whit didn't even engage in the defender and he stayed a step away just to try and bat the ball.

If an offensive lineman does not stay engaged or push, then there can be problems. We saw defenders jump but yet our offensive lineman stayed put instead of pushing them while they had leverage.

And also, some passes defended were also good defensive plays. It's not always someone's fault on offense, sometimes the defense makes a good play.

More players are the reason for those batted balls. Dalton is a part of it, but not solely on him.

Also, he really isn't the king of batted balls. He actually rarely gets balls batted down. Not sure why people think this outside of last week's game.

Has anyone else noticed how that was never a problem with our past offensive lines?

Bro, I've already explained the lineman's responsibility in that.....good luck.

Also, good point about a defender just making a good play.  I didn't address that.