(12-27-2016, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Clarke is not playing more because MJ has been more productive.

Not sure where you are getting this, but Clarke has played less than 1/4th of the snaps at RDE and probably quite a bit less than that since he sometimes rotates inside.  MJ got nearly 3/4ths of the snaps at RDE (pretty sure that is where he lined up the vast majority of the time) and he had fewer sacks and less than three times the tackles...despite playing more than three times the snaps?

I was sure MJ was going to be shelved this week and news would come out of an injury that he has been battling all season and he just toughed it out, but it led to his ineffectiveness.  I love the guy as a person, but he is, IMHO, the position on that defensive line that needs upgraded.  

I like Michael Johnson, but he's been under performing since he left here for TB.

I can not say that Clarke's production would be better, so I mentioned we have no way of knowing.

The whole defensive line needs a re-tweek. Not saying that this is the number 1 problem the organization needs to tend to, but at the same time, the production has been really low compared to the past few seasons.

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(12-27-2016, 12:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How can you say the production would be better?

MJ has played a little more than twice as many snaps as Clark (782 to 346), but has almost 3 times as many tackles (43 to 15), hurries (16 to "less than 5"), and passes defended (3 to 0), and 2.5 times as many stuffs (5 to 2).

Clarke does have more sacks, but that could just be because he plays mostly on passing downs.  I can't really tell.

What you fail to mention in your snap evaluation is where those snaps were lined up. 

Clarke is not going to get as many tackles rushing the QB from inside when he rotates in on a passing down.  I don't think I saw MJ rotate in at all this year.  And let's be honest, a few of MJs "stuffs" happened recently when he was pushed totally out of the play and the opposing player re-routed and ran back in to MJ.  Where does PFF have them ranked head to head?

I know you don't like PFF, but at least it would be the same measuring stick for both players.  

And I don't mean to make this sound like Clarke is a HoF'r, rather, I just wanted him to get more snaps and more opportunity to make plays at RDE.  

Hunt has been improving thruout the year I wouldn't mind seeing him return on a small contract but only if we are turning over some of the lesser productive members of the dl

(12-27-2016, 12:37 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:   And let's be honest, a few of MJs "stuffs" happened recently when he was pushed totally out of the play and the opposing player re-routed and ran back in to MJ. 

Let's be honest.  There has not been a single play where the offense did not try to block MJ and a ball carrier voluntarily ran into his arms.

(12-27-2016, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Let's be honest.  There has not been a single play where the offense did not try to block MJ and a ball carrier voluntarily ran into his arms.

You misunderstood me.  He was blocked upfield, as he took a wide angle (does he do anything else?) and the OT let him go as he stumbled a good 8 yards past the play.  The RB made a poor choice, cut back, ran away from a DT, and in to the arms of Johnson.  Then he celebrated, which cracked me up.  

It happened on one of his sacks as well.  A QB reversed field and ran backwards to where MJ had been pretty much eliminated and he was like:  "look what I found!".  

(12-27-2016, 12:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Hunt has been improving thruout the year I wouldn't mind seeing him return on a small contract but only if we are turning over some of the lesser productive members of the dl

Ideally, this would be a perfect scenario for other organizations, but since it is the Bengals, typically, if a player is paid less, they will see the playing field less. So, for that, I say let him go, it won't do him or the organization any good if he's getting less playing time.

(12-27-2016, 12:47 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You misunderstood me.  He was blocked upfield, as he took a wide angle (does he do anything else?) and the OT let him go as he stumbled a good 8 yards past the play.  The RB made a poor choice, cut back, ran away from a DT, and in to the arms of Johnson.  Then he celebrated, which cracked me up.  

It happened on one of his sacks as well.  A QB reversed field and ran backwards to where MJ had been pretty much eliminated and he was like:  "look what I found!".  

He might have 1 or 2 solo sacks, but 3 1/2 to me means (2) solo sacks, (3)-1/2 ass. sacks...

Just the programming, like how Ezekiel Elliot celebrates after every carry, it is the 'participation league era', I find myself laughing quite a bit as well..

Michael Johnson needs to be replaced asap. Derek Barnett from Tennessee looks like a perfect match for the Bengals at #8. Love the guy. He's a little shorter than the Bengals would normally draft but unlike MJ he's really productive and would be great along side Atkins n Dunlap. As for Hunt. Sign him to a small contract. He's a dime a dozen.

(12-27-2016, 01:30 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Michael Johnson needs to be replaced asap.    Derek Barnett from Tennessee looks like a perfect match for the Bengals at #8.   Love the guy.  He's a little shorter than the Bengals would normally draft but unlike MJ he's really productive and would be great along side Atkins n Dunlap.    As for Hunt.   Sign him to a small contract.  He's a dime a dozen.

6'8" 280lb players who can run a 4.6 40 are not a dime a dozen. Hunt is constantly improving his game, if we get some new coaches in here who knows what his limit is.... He's earned a 2nd contract. Nothing to break the bank, but it's too early to give up on him. Besides, I love the look in the eyes of the punt returners when they realize there is a massive gunner coming after them....

It would have to be a reasonable contract to bring him back. He's improved some this year but he desperately needed to.

I'd definitely sign hunt. He's been solid player with a decent amount of tackles for the small amount of snaps he plays. He isn't going to be a starter. Just a quality backup that plays 20 snaps a game. Hes used as a run stuffing DE and pass rushing DT so his sacks wont be as high as clarks.

Most importantly he's a special teams ace. He single handedly won the jets game for us with a blocked field goal. Not only the points he saved but that block changed the momentum of the game. We were getting pipe beaten that game and out of nowhere this huge arm comes out into the sky and blocks the field goal.

He almost won the texans game for us with another extra point block. The guy can win us a couple close games a year as a field goal and extra point blocking specialist alone. Of course we need to sign him.

Agree with pp if we can get a contract that doesn't overpay or break the bank in here then I think it's a signing that has to be made, he has made some key contributions this year.

Please god can we not just draft a stud RDE in rd 1 and put an end to these MJ <> Clarke <> Margus debates ...

(12-28-2016, 08:11 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Please god can we not just draft a stud RDE in rd 1 and put an end to these MJ <> Clarke <> Margus debates ...

With you 100% on the need for a RDE, but that is not where Margus usually lines up...

Clarke has the ability to kick inside as well.  MJ is money that should be used on Hunt and the likes of Zeitler/Dre Kirk. 

EDIT:  Just looked up his contract...If I read it right, I think they onely save $4.5 million against the cap with a $1.125 Million hit on dead money.  The Bengals sure hate dead money so I imagine we will see more of him next year....groan.  

It's too early to give up on him-it's not like Margus is about to turn 40.