The problem, I think, is that the Bengals offense no longer fits Jeremy Hill's running style/ability. When Hill was at his best, he had a fullback leading him into the hole. I guess it forces him to be more decisive and limits the dancing in the backfield trying to figure out where to run. Maybe he sees too much going on when he's not looking at the back of his fullback's jersey? I don't know the actual numbers, but I know the Bengals ran Ryan Hewitt in front of Hill as a fullback a hell of a lot more his rookie season than they have the past 2! You would think that coaches and execs who are paid to know these things would have addressed this already, but then again we are talking about the Bengals... We always hear Marvin Lewis talk about teams who can run the ball and wear defenses down/control the clock. Hill with a fullback in front of him could be that type of back, but the Bengals seem to want to be fancy and flashy on offense so they line Hewitt up as a wingback, as a tight end, or even staggered in the backfield, but not behind Dalton and in front of Hill, which is where he should be! Didn't they give him a big contract (for a fullback) because the feel/felt he is on of the best fullbacks in the league? I think they have become so enamored with his versatility that they try to showcase that versatility from series to series instead of game to game. Line him up at fullback 80 - 85 percent of the time each game. The other 15 - 20 percent do different things with him game to game instead of lining him up all over the place every game and he ends up only playing about 7 or 8 snaps as an actual fullback.

As far as Rex, he's a good back and should be brought back. Unfortunately I think some other team will offer him more money than the Bengals can afford to match with Hill and Gio both getting good money.

(01-03-2017, 01:52 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: If you look at hills rookie highlights, their all out of I formation. 

Another message board myth not based on fact.

His rookie season only 67 of his 222 carries were  from the I-formation.

(01-03-2017, 02:06 AM)Bengalmaniac Wrote: I don't know the actual numbers, but I know the Bengals ran Ryan Hewitt in front of Hill as a fullback a hell of a lot more his rookie season than they have the past 2! You would think that coaches and execs who are paid to know these things would have addressed this already, but then again we are talking about the Bengals.

Unlike you the people who get paid tpo know these things realize that over the last two years Hill has averaged only 2.5 yards per carry running from the I-formation (86 for 216), but averages almost a yard-and-a-half better as a one back (359 for 1417 yards and a 3.9 avg).

You would think that a fan would not make a silly post like this without looking at the numbers, but we are talking about Bengal fans here.  They don't let silly facts get in the way of their message board myths.

(01-03-2017, 02:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Unlike you the people who get paid tpo know these things realize that over the last two years Hill has averaged only 2.5 yards per carry running from the I-formation (86 for 216), but averages almost a yard-and-a-half better as a one back (359 for 1417 yards and a 3.9 avg).

You would think that a fan would not make a silly post like this without looking at the numbers, but we are talking about Bengal fans here.  They don't let silly facts get in the way of their message board myths.

So do you know the number of snaps Hewitt lined up as a fullback in '14, '15 and '16? Because it sure seems like it has been progressively less. I don't research these things, not important enough to me, but it sure seems like he lined up at fullback a lot more his rookie season than these last 2...

(01-03-2017, 02:42 AM)Bengalmaniac Wrote: So do you know the number of snaps Hewitt lined up as a fullback in '14, '15 and '16? Because it sure seems like it has been progressively less. I don't research these things, not important enough to me, but it sure seems like he lined up at fullback a lot more his rookie season than these last 2...

Yes.  The Bengals have ran Hill less out of the I-formation because he has been more productive without a FB in front of him.

Over the last two seasons he has averaged 2.5 yards per carry behind a FB and 3.9 per carry without a FB.

(01-03-2017, 02:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Another message board myth not based on fact.

His rookie season only 67 of his 222 carries were  from the I-formation.

Well go look at his highlights of his big plays, all power formations,they were definitely not out of shotgun.

(01-02-2017, 01:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I just learned something.

I do not even remember this game at all, but in 2001 I was living in Tennessee and had no access to any message boards or Cincinnati local talk radio.  So I have no idea how the fans reacted.

In the 15th game of the season the 4-10 Bengals beat the 12-2 Steelers in a crazy overtime game.  The Bengals were down by 13 with just 3 minutes left in the game, but scored a td, recovered an onside kick and scored another td to force overtime (when the XP failed).  In those last two td drives in regulation and the game winning drive in OT rookie WR T J Housmandzadeh caught 5 passes for 55 yards.  For the game he had 9 for 98 which almost matched his total production in the other 15 games that year (12 for 130).  It would be three years before he would have another game with more than 60 receiving yards.

I was there.  And it was Cincinnati's other favorite kicker Neil Rackers who missed the XP.  He did make the game winner in OT though.

(01-03-2017, 05:01 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Well go look at his highlights of his big plays, all power formations,they were definitely not out of shotgun.

Wrong again

Why do you think people want Vinny Rey released? I think he's great value as a reserve LB that can start in a pinch. He may not be the most athletic, fast, strong or imposing LB ever, but he knows his role and does his job. I'm very comfortable with him staying on as the first back up off the bench for at least the duration of his current contract.

(01-03-2017, 01:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Why do you think people want Vinny Rey released? I think he's great value as a reserve LB that can start in a pinch. He may not be the most athletic, fast, strong or imposing LB ever, but he knows his role and does his job. I'm very comfortable with him staying on as the first back up off the bench for at least the duration of his current contract.

I agree with you, but I have seen more than one member here say he is overpaid and should be released to free up cap room.

But even if fans don't want him released they are not as excited about him as they were in the '14 offseason.

(01-03-2017, 02:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hill is not that good, but at the same time you can not just replace him with any random RB.

Of the 42 RBs who had at least 100 carries last year Hill finished 8th in tds, 18th in yards, and 31st in yards per carry. If you could replace Hill with any random rookie draft pick then every team in the league would have a RB more productive than Hill, but the fact is SEVEN different NFL teams do not have a single RB with 100 carries who averaged as many yards per carry as Hill.

I'm not proposing we replace Hill with a random rookie.  I'm proposing we replace Hill with a committee of Bernard and Burkhead and find a new #3 back.

I prefer this saga.

(01-03-2017, 01:57 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: I'm not proposing we replace Hill with a random rookie.  I'm proposing we replace Hill with a committee of Bernard and Burkhead and find a new #3 back.

I know exactly what you are saying.  But Hill is still on his rookie contract and no matter if he is the #1 RB or the #3 RB it does not make sense to say we can just replace him with a random draft pick.  He is not "garbage" that deserves to be cut while on a rookie contract.

(01-03-2017, 02:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Another message board myth not based on fact.

His rookie season only 67 of his 222 carries were  from the I-formation.

He didn't say every carry Hill had was out of the I formation. He said HIGHLIGHTS. Not sure if that's even close to accurate or not, but I doubt you went and did video research on it, either.

(01-03-2017, 02:16 PM)PDub80 Wrote: He didn't say every carry Hill had was out of the I formation. He said HIGHLIGHTS. Not sure if that's even close to accurate or not, but I doubt you went and did video research on it, either.

(01-03-2017, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong again

Jeremy Hill has shown himself to be a one HALF year wonder.

Back half of his rookie year was great when he lead the NFL in yards the last 9 games of that season.

Other than that blip on the radar the guy is performing poorly. He has a lot of TDs, almost exclusively in short yardage/goaline situations. He's not a short yardage chain mover and he isn't some bad-ass pass protector or catcher of the ball out of the back field. He's not huge on yards after contact, either - and the fumbles of seasons past aren't such a distant memory that the fear isn't there.

If the Bengals are going to be an elite offense they need elite guys (or at least very good guys) with their hands on the ball. Hill hasn't been very good the last 2 seasons. Period. Point blank. I think drafting another RB high to replace him or opening up serious competition at the spot this offseason against a back like Burkhead is warranted. Asking him to be as good as Corey Dillon isn't fair, but something similar to a young Rudi Johnson would have been HUGE the past two seasons. Instead, young Jeremy Hill is producing like Old Cedric Benson or old BJGE. No excuse for that from a guy still on his rookie deal.

Fred, that's one highlight. 

(01-03-2017, 02:28 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Jeremy Hill has shown himself to be a one HALF year wonder.

Back half of his rookie year was great when he lead the NFL in yards the last 9 games of that season.

Other than that blip on the radar the guy is performing poorly. He has a lot of TDs, almost exclusively in short yardage/goaline situations. He's not a short yardage chain mover and he isn't some bad-ass pass protector or catcher of the ball out of the back field. He's not huge on yards after contact, either - and the fumbles of seasons past aren't such a distant memory that the fear isn't there.

If the Bengals are going to be an elite offense they need elite guys (or at least very good guys) with their hands on the ball. Hill hasn't been very good the last 2 seasons. Period. Point blank. I think drafting another RB high to replace him or opening up serious competition at the spot this offseason against a back like Burkhead is warranted. Asking him to be as good as Corey Dillon isn't fair, but something similar to a young Rudi Johnson would have been HUGE the past two seasons. Instead, young Jeremy Hill is producing like Old Cedric Benson or old BJGE. No excuse for that from a guy still on his rookie deal.

Cut Hill....draft Cook.  Fournette is Hill 2.0.....but a tad beter.

Rex would be nice to contain in a contract, but over-paying for him or raising his national stock is hard. Some organization might sign him, but I don't think he will get a block-buster deal, if he does, good for him. If he does get a decent deal, Bengals need to at least match it...it is going to be a straight up guessing game on his worth.

Current:
Rex Burkhead signed a 4 year, $2,262,200 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $102,200 signing bonus, $102,200 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $565,550. In 2016, Burkhead will earn a base salary of $675,000. Burkhead has a cap hit of $700,550 while his dead money value is $25,550.Apr 27, 2013

Knowing the Bengals organization, it will be incentive based for obvious reasons, but seeing LaFell hit his incentives this season...it is a bright non-impossible task.

(01-04-2017, 02:58 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Rex would be nice to contain in a contract, but over-paying for him or raising his national stock is hard. Some organization might sign him, but I don't think he will get a block-buster deal, if he does, good for him. If he does get a decent deal, Bengals need to at least match it...it is going to be a straight up guessing game on his worth.

Current:
Rex Burkhead signed a 4 year, $2,262,200 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $102,200 signing bonus, $102,200 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $565,550. In 2016, Burkhead will earn a base salary of $675,000. Burkhead has a cap hit of $700,550 while his dead money value is $25,550.Apr 27, 2013

Knowing the Bengals organization, it will be incentive based for obvious reasons, but seeing LaFell hit his incentives this season...it is a bright non-impossible task.

I don't know if Rex will get a blockbuster deal. What I can see is him getting a starting 3rd down RB contract. A lot of people are saying he could get something along the lines of Danny Woodhead. He signed with San Diego for 2 yrs/$3.5 million. Someone might offer up a little more, but that's completely affordable to the Bengals. I think it's going to come down his position on the team. If they tell him that he'll remain the #3 RB, he's gone. If they decide to move on from Hill, then I could see Rex hanging around.