(01-03-2017, 02:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bill Belichick brought in Junior Seau as a free agent when he was 37 and he played with the Patriots until he was 40.

Belichick brought in Joey Galloway when he was 38 and he played 2 years with the Patriots.

Belichick brought in LB Chad Brown when he was 35.

Tom Brady will be back next year when he is 40.

Belichick kept Troy Brown and Rodney Harrison around until they were 36.

Was he throwing huge money at them? 
Yes both teams have in 15 years had older players.

(01-03-2017, 02:44 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You're cherry picking Fred.  While no one knows Belichick's thoughts, it's pretty logical to infer what he might do given their actions over the past 15 years.  The Pats cut their losses with Easley after two years.  Despite drafting in the bottom 20's every year, there is no doubt that they've out drafted the Bengals during the joint Belichick and Lewis tenures.   They've also, on the whole, been far more successful in FA in terms of hits than misses.  Sure, they've acquired a few duds (Haynesworth, Chad Johnson), but they've also turned the bargain bin and mid tier FA pool into gold (Welker, Ninkovich, Seau, Dillon, Blount, Harrison, Long, Sheard, Lewis, Vrabel, Woodhead) with a few top enders (Moss, Revis) to stack the deck.  

The Pats, on average, are winners in free agency and the draft.  The Bengals are not on the same level in either facet.  If they were a stock, the Pats would show significant, stable earning with low volatility.  The organization is the best run in the league, and show marked tendencies towards how they operate. So yes, one could infer what Belichick might do given the 15 years of data on hand.

Their free agents blows ours out the water

(01-03-2017, 12:59 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Do you think Belichick would let his organization spend top tier money on a 35 year old offensive linemen? Because I dont.

Ole Marv has done something few have. 15 years as a head coach in one place. He and Belichick have that in common.

The Patriots traded away their best pass rusher and best LB this year. Something we wouldnt do in a million years. Yet they made the playoffs and have a first round bye. While we are making plans to give big money to the oldest tackle in the league and trade our backup QB a year too late.

The success of the teams they have coached over the last 15 years is not a mistake.

We drafted back to back tackles two years ago in the first and second round. Let our top 10 pick starting RT walk for a mid tier contract and gave the starting RT job to A guy who says RT is not his position. And here we are looking at our first round guard entering free agency in his prime while we make plans to give big money to the oldest tackle in the league.

I love Whit. But even Marvin would tell you the NFL is a young mans game. But that wont stop his poorly coached and managed team from making bad choices.

I will tell you exactly what I believe Belichek would do:  Not make weak excuses about an owner or personnel.  

He would look close at the Bengals roster, and make the following decisions: 

 Let go of one-dimensional Hill.  He would bring in some scrub RB he worked with in the past and sign Sexy.  That would give him three RBs all with the ability to do three critical things:  Blitz pickup, run crisp routes, not fumble.  

He then would look at the offensive line and say to himself:  Never running a single play without two TEs on the field.  One would almost always stay in to block.  He wouldn't telegraph which one that is, by targeting all three in the passing game.  He would have a minimum of four targets in a pattern.  You want to stack the line?  I will beat you deep. He would employ the RB to chip the DE every time the RB isn't carrying the ball, and then slip out as an outlet for Andy.  Cody Core is consistently taking deep routes.  If he is singled, give him opportunities deep.  If he is not singled, attach them underneath with AJ, his four TEs, and his RBs, which can all catch well. 

He wouldn't have to change much on defense.  I could see more blitzes with safeties, but overall the defense is fine.  It just needs more aggressive play on first down to set up obvious pass rushing opportunities.  

Ol' Bill Bellyache is great. But let's not forget that he didn't fix the Browns, he refused to honor his contract to coach for the awful Jets, and he went to the Patriots...who were only good after Robert Kraft bought them.

Basically, he knows how to remove himself from bad situations and impose himself into good ones. I guess that is a bit of a generic rant on the guy.

Cheat.

(01-03-2017, 03:15 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Was he throwing huge money at them? 
Yes both teams have in 15 years had older players.

Are you guys married?

Belichick wouldn't put himself in the position to work for Mike Brown. He would go back to Cleveland first, and be better off.

(01-03-2017, 12:19 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Are you guys married?

No.  I am available.  PM me if you are interested.

Fred's in full defense of Mike Brown/ Marvin Lewis mode. Whatever. It's rinse, wash, and repeat as long as Marvin is around and Mike Brown is in charge. You can't expect things to change if you are doing the same old failed things over and over again.

The Marvin error is a broken record stuck on repeat. The culture he's established isn't going to change any time soon. Pacman will always get arrested, Burfict will still be emotionally unstable, rookies won't see the field, aged vets will be prized, we'll lose big games and primetime games outside of Thursday night games, we'll lose free agents that will turn all pro elsewhere, and Fred will be attacking anyone who is sick of this never ending loop of embarrassment. Rinse, wash, repeat. That should be the motto on Marvin's 2017 shirts.

(01-03-2017, 12:37 PM)jj22 Wrote:  we'll lose free agents that will turn all pro elsewhere, 

Wow, I knew you were a bit of a drama queen, but c'mon man.  In the last 15 years we have lost exactly one player in free agency that went on to be an All-Pro (Justin Smith) someplace else.  But during the same time we have acquired two players that became All-Pro's with us (Dealtha O'Neal, Adam jones) plus multiple other guys that became Pro-Bowlers (Reggie Nelson, Tory James, Shayne Graham, Cedric Benson)

I don't think Whit has enough off-field issues for the Pats to bring him in; now if we cut Pacman....

(01-03-2017, 11:22 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ol' Bill Bellyache is great.  But let's not forget that he didn't fix the Browns, he refused to honor his contract to coach for the awful Jets, and he went to the Patriots...who were only good after Robert Kraft bought them.

Basically, he knows how to remove himself from bad situations and impose himself into good ones.  I guess that is a bit of a generic rant on the guy.

That's the best response I've seen to the question.  Additionally - A second string quarter back from Michigan hasn't hurt him any!

(01-03-2017, 01:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no idea what Belichick would do with Peko, Maualuga, MJ, Nugent, or any of those other players.  What makes you think you are as smart as Belichick and that you two agree on absolutely every football decision?  What have you ever won to put yourself on his level as a NFL coach?


BTW would you trade for Ochocinco or take on Albert Haynesworth's huge free agent contract?  Would you use a first round pick on Dominique Easley?  I bet you wouldn't because you are smarter than Belichick, right?  

I respect the way Belichick makes pragmatic decisions and is often able to remove emotion from his personnel and depth chart decisions.  His game planning and strategic adjustments are legendary.  I'm just pointing out the the Bengals coaches and front office appear to suffer from a lot more cognitive biases, often described as "loyalty" or "chopping wood" or " repeatedly pounding large, hard objects." Overall while neither team is perfect, I think the spirit of this conversation is that New England has had a lot more success over time, and therefore it is interesting to reflect on how Bill Belichick would approach the same decisions that the Bengals currently face.

(01-03-2017, 02:07 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote:  I think the spirit of this conversation is that New England has had a lot more success over time, and therefore it is interesting to reflect on how Bill Belichick would approach the same decisions that the Bengals currently face.

The problem is that no one here knows what Belichick would do.  History proves that he keeps old players around when he needs to.

Basically what everyone is trying to say is "Bill Belichick would do exactly what I would do because I am as smart as the greatest head coach in the NFL."

No idea what Belichick would do...

I , however , hope we keep Whit even if we have to pay slightly over the odds.

I see it as a similar situation to Reggie Nelson ...Whit is not like Peko who's play has dropped off, he's still at Pro Bowl/All Pro level and if he did go the drop off to the younger replacement is too big to absorb right now.

Right now the alternative is to do exactly the same as this year - hand Ogbuehi the starting OT position before he has earned it - with probably similar damaging results to both our Offense production and Andy's health.

Drafting an OT high two years before this situation arose was good thinking. If Ogbuehi had panned out we'd be sitting dandy with Whit able to kick inside perhaps if they wanted to pay him rather than Zeitler.

Unfortunately the pick not panning out has a triple impact - 1) we probably have to overpay Whit to play OT short term , 2) we may have to pay Zeit as we can barely cover the OT position let alone OG (unless they think Johnson can do it) ..3) god forbid, we may need to go back and use a high draft pick on OT if we think Ogbuehi never gets there.

As an aside - if this Pacman arrest story is true then having a guy like Whit around becomes even more important to me. He's a class act who seems to be really respected around the league.

(01-03-2017, 02:24 PM)sonofstat Wrote: No idea what Belichick would do...

I , however , hope we keep Whit even if we have to pay slightly over the odds.  

I see it as a similar situation to Reggie Nelson ...Whit is not like Peko who's play has dropped off, he's still at Pro Bowl/All Pro level and if he did go the drop off to the younger replacement is too big to absorb right now.

Right now the alternative is to do exactly the same as this year  - hand Ogbuehi the starting OT position before he has earned it - with probably similar damaging results to both our Offense production and Andy's health.

Drafting an OT high two years before this situation arose was good thinking.  If Ogbuehi had panned out we'd be sitting dandy with Whit able to kick inside perhaps if they wanted to pay him rather than Zeitler.

Unfortunately the pick not panning out has a triple impact - 1) we probably have to overpay Whit to play OT short term  , 2) we may have to pay Zeit as we can barely cover the OT position let alone OG (unless they think Johnson can do it) ..3) god forbid, we may need to go back and use a high draft pick on OT if we think Ogbuehi never gets there.

As an aside - if this Pacman arrest story is true then having a guy like Whit around becomes even more important to me. He's a class act who seems to be really respected around the league.

(01-03-2017, 02:24 PM)sonofstat Wrote: No idea what Belichick would do...

I , however , hope we keep Whit even if we have to pay slightly over the odds.  

I see it as a similar situation to Reggie Nelson ...Whit is not like Peko who's play has dropped off, he's still at Pro Bowl/All Pro level and if he did go the drop off to the younger replacement is too big to absorb right now.

Right now the alternative is to do exactly the same as this year  - hand Ogbuehi the starting OT position before he has earned it - with probably similar damaging results to both our Offense production and Andy's health.

Drafting an OT high two years before this situation arose was good thinking.  If Ogbuehi had panned out we'd be sitting dandy with Whit able to kick inside perhaps if they wanted to pay him rather than Zeitler.

Unfortunately the pick not panning out has a triple impact - 1) we probably have to overpay Whit to play OT short term  , 2) we may have to pay Zeit as we can barely cover the OT position let alone OG (unless they think Johnson can do it) ..3) god forbid, we may need to go back and use a high draft pick on OT if we think Ogbuehi never gets there.

As an aside - if this Pacman arrest story is true then having a guy like Whit around becomes even more important to me. He's a class act who seems to be really respected around the league.

Unfortunately you forgot one for a quadruple impact:  4) We probably need to draft a "capable" back up QB (assuming AJ is traded) because Dalton won't make it out of another season unscathed behind that OL.

(01-03-2017, 12:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: Fred's in full defense of Mike Brown/ Marvin Lewis mode. Whatever. It's rinse, wash, and repeat as long as Marvin is around and Mike Brown is in charge. You can't expect things to change if you are doing the same old failed things over and over again.

The Marvin error is a broken record stuck on repeat. The culture he's established isn't going to change any time soon. Pacman will always get arrested, Burfict will still be emotionally unstable, rookies won't see the field, aged vets will be prized, we'll lose big games and primetime games outside of Thursday night games, we'll lose free agents that will turn all pro elsewhere, and Fred will be attacking anyone who is sick of this never ending loop of embarrassment.  Rinse, wash, repeat. That should be the motto on Marvin's 2017 shirts.

That is some funny shyt.  There was a large banner at a game this year that read in big letters:

WATCH.  WINCE.  REPEAT

(01-03-2017, 12:59 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Do you think Belichick would let his organization spend top tier money on a 35 year old offensive linemen? Because I dont.

Ole Marv has done something few have. 15 years as a head coach in one place. He and Belichick have that in common.

The Patriots traded away their best pass rusher and best LB this year. Something we wouldnt do in a million years. Yet they made the playoffs and have a first round bye. While we are making plans to give big money to the oldest tackle in the league and trade our backup QB a year too late.

The success of the teams they have coached over the last 15 years is not a mistake.

We drafted back to back tackles two years ago in the first and second round. Let our top 10 pick starting RT walk for a mid tier contract and gave the starting RT job to A guy who says RT is not his position. And here we are looking at our first round guard entering free agency in his prime while we make plans to give big money to the oldest tackle in the league.

I love Whit. But even Marvin would tell you the NFL is a young mans game. But that wont stop his poorly coached and managed team from making bad choices.

One thing he wouldn't do is move on from someone without a capable replacement.  Unless it's your intention to get Andy killed next year, Whit has to come back.  He's a very important member of this team.

Im actually much smarter than belichik but high social anixety keeps me from being able to be a head coach of a nfl team and do all the interviews and constantly being on tv