(01-07-2017, 03:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Or better yet, how many times has Cam had a better passer rating than Dalton since Bfine likes to use passer rating. I'll save you the trouble of looking it up... Cam's rookie year is the only year he's had a better passer rating then Dalton. Cam's rookie year he had Steve Smith, Gregg Olsen, Brandon LaFell, DeAngelo Willams, and Jonathan Stewart.... Dalton had a rookie Green, Gresham, Simpson, Caldwell, and Cedric Benson... Dalton and Newton only had a 4 passer rating difference that year.

How many times has Andy been named NFL MVP? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up...... 0. If Andy had they running numbers that Cam has had in his career then using his passer rating only would be silly. 

Am I understanding that you, Shake, and Wyche think Andy Dalton is a better NFL QB than Cam Newton? 

(01-07-2017, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How many times has Andy been named NFL MVP? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up...... 0. If Andy had they running numbers that Cam has had in his career then using his passer rating only would be silly. 

Am I understanding that you, Shake, and Wyche think Andy Dalton is a better NFL QB than Cam Newton? 

Yep, Dalton is much more accurate, much better at reading a defense, much better in the pocket, much better at calling audibles, and has done better with a team with arguably less talent and easily worse coaching. It seems pretty obvious who's better. Cam only won that MVP because his team had 1 loss in the regular season, and it doesn't hurt when you have one of the best RBs, OL, and defenses helping you out. Cam looked like crap at the start of the 2015 season too. He only had 3 games over an 80 passer rating his first 8 games last season. There was a reason why Carolina had the most pro-bowl players on its team last year.

(01-07-2017, 02:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yep, Dalton is much more accurate, much better at reading a defense, much better in the pocket, much better at calling audibles, and has done better with a team with arguably less talent and easily worse coaching. It seems pretty obvious who's better. Cam only won that MVP because his team had 1 loss in the regular season, and it doesn't hurt when you have one of the best RBs, OL, and defenses helping you out. Cam looked like crap at the start of the 2015 season too. He only had 3 games over an 80 passer rating his first 8 games last season. There was a reason why Carolina had the most pro-bowl players on its team last year.

Alright, just getting a better look at that football acumen.

BTW: You never gave me your thoughts on Alex "can't win a game" Smith's playoff performances.

(01-07-2017, 03:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Alright, just getting a better look at that football acumen.

BTW: You never gave me your thoughts on Alex "can't win a game" Smith's playoff performances.

Nice to see you can't dispute Dalton being better than Cam.

A big chunk of Alex Smiths playoff stats come from one game against the shitty Colts defense. Other than that game he had more than 2 TDs once and over 250 yards once, and those were both against the Saints bad defense. If you take away the Colts game and average his stats out it comes out to 235 yards and 1.75 TDs. That's with a loaded roster around him too. He only has 2 playoff wins, and both of them are in the wildcard, one of which came against probably one of the worst playoff teams in history. Yeah, Alex Smith can have a really good game every now and again, I'm sure every QB can do that, but he consistently has more non-productive games than he has good games.

I don't understand why Bfine likes Cam Newton so much.

The guy is a diva on top of all the facts presented here about his play.

He was blessed with a Lebron James type body and underachieves.

(01-07-2017, 03:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Alright, just getting a better look at that football acumen.

BTW: You never gave me your thoughts on Alex "can't win a game" Smith's playoff performances.

BTW it wasn't like Alex Smith was a young QB when he went into the playoffs. He was drafted in 2005, and his first playoff game was in 2011. He had time to mature as a QB before having to go in those types of games.

Bfine last month: Dalton is likely to regress over the last few games and finish with a passer rating in the 80's as usual. It's who he is.

*Dalton finishes with a 91.8 rating and doesn't regress over the last few games...even without AJ and Eifert*

Bfine now: Look at where Dalton is ranked (15th). The fact that he's usually between 13th and 15th means he's definitely mid tier (a very broad and vague description). Pay no mind to Dalton's career year in 2015, or the terrible years other QBs are having. Btw, Cam is awesome.

*someone points out that Cam has always finished behind Andy in passer rating*

Bfine: Passer rating doesn't matter when the QB runs well. Did you know Cam was MVP last year? (Nevermind that Cam has never come close to that MVP level outside of 2015).

(01-04-2017, 06:46 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: I would concur with the list. What says you?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769426/article/qb-index-tom-brady-owns-no-1-in-yearend-rankings

Makes me want to vomit as soon as I read it....

Dalton threw for over 4200 yards in the AFC North, with the out-of-conference foes being the AFC East, and they also drew Denver and Houston as their matched division ranking foes.  He had a total of 8 interceptions.  Got the ever loving shit beat out of him, and never flinched.  

There are 5-6 names on that list that MIGHT have been able to do the same.  Might. 

People like this pinhead look at a stat sheet and nothing else.  Complete F(&&%$ idiot publishing complete F*&%## bullshyt. 

Get that crap off our website!

(01-04-2017, 09:19 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: He didn't have the tools?  Yeah right.  Cam Newton doesn't have a aj green or boyd, not even a gio

No, but he had one of the best running games in the league, a future Hall of Fame TE, and he does have Kelvin Benjamin, Ted Ginn Jr, and Devin Funchess, so let's not make him to be without any weapons.  Plus, he gets to face the weak defenses of the NFC South twice a year.

(01-07-2017, 07:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: No, but he had one of the best running games in the league, a future Hall of Fame TE, and he does have Kelvin Benjamin, Ted Ginn Jr, and Devin Funchess, so let's not make him to be without any weapons.  Plus, he gets to face the weak defenses of the NFC South twice a year.

Keep in mind we're not talking about 2 QBs that had similar seasons. Dalton was significantly better in every category. It wasn't even that far off in rush numbers this year. Cam was awful, Dalton was good.

(01-07-2017, 06:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Bfine last month: Dalton is likely to regress over the last few games and finish with a passer rating in the 80's as usual. It's who he is.

*Dalton finishes with a 91.8 rating and doesn't regress over the last few games...even without AJ and Eifert*

Bfine now: Look at where Dalton is ranked (15th). The fact that he's usually between 13th and 15th means he's definitely mid tier (a very broad and vague description). Pay no mind to Dalton's career year in 2015, or the terrible years other QBs are having. Btw, Cam is awesome.

*someone points out that Cam has always finished behind Andy in passer rating*

Bfine: Passer rating doesn't matter when the QB runs well. Did you know Cam was MVP last year? (Nevermind that Cam has never come close to that MVP level outside of 2015).

Provide post where I stated Dalton is likely to regress over the last few games.

I did mention we don't know how he would have finished in 2015 and history has shown he usually doesn't finish the season with a high passer rating. Given that. If you want to use a passer rating difference of 1.9 as some sort of validation of Andy's awesomeness. Have at it.

Anybody that assessed Cam's overall game would point to his ability to run; they would not do so for Andy. So once again: If you want to use a passer rating difference of 3.1 as some sort of validation of Andy's awesomeness. Have at it.

(01-07-2017, 04:56 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Nice to see you can't dispute Dalton being better than Cam.

A big chunk of Alex Smiths playoff stats come from one game against the shitty Colts defense. Other than that game he had more than 2 TDs once and over 250 yards once, and those were both against the Saints bad defense. If you take away the Colts game and average his stats out it comes out to 235 yards and 1.75 TDs. That's with a loaded roster around him too. He only has 2 playoff wins, and both of them are in the wildcard, one of which came against probably one of the worst playoff teams in history. Yeah, Alex Smith can have a really good game every now and again, I'm sure every QB can do that, but he consistently has more non-productive games than he has good games.

Of course I could dispute Dalton being a better QB that Andy Dalton; however, it would be similar to disputing with a child the reality of Santa Claus.

Since they have came into the league Cam has more total yards, more TDs, fewer turnovers, has won a NFL MVP, has been to the Superbowl. won Rookie of the Year, and has been named first team All-Pro. While Andy has been one of the worst big-game performers in the league

I could point to that and more, but it would just lead to the "Other QBs only seem better than Andy, because they play bad defenses, have great support, experts are biased, have better coaches, ect......"

(01-07-2017, 04:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't understand why Bfine likes Cam Newton so much.

The guy is a diva on top of all the facts presented here about his play.

He was blessed with a Lebron James type body and underachieves.

If thinking he has been a better NFL QB to date than Andy Dalton; as does 99.9% of the population, then I am guilty of liking him so much. 

(01-07-2017, 07:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Keep in mind we're not talking about 2 QBs that had similar seasons. Dalton was significantly better in every category. It wasn't even that far off in rush numbers this year. Cam was awful, Dalton was good.

Oh, I am not supporting Cam....aside from being a physical freak, I don't think he is a better QB....and those hits are starting to take their toll.  Cam was awful and anytime things don't go as he wants, he turns in to a pouting baby.  Not a leader.  

Dalton never once called out his horrible protection, lack of a running game, or his pathetic offensive scheme that always had him at the same spot for defenses to target.  He is tough as nails.  

(01-07-2017, 08:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Provide post where I stated Dalton is likely to regress over the last few games.

I did mention we don't know how he would have finished in 2015 and history has shown he usually doesn't finish the season with a high passer rating. Given that. If you want to use a passer rating difference of 1.9 as some sort of validation of Andy's awesomeness. Have at it.

Anybody that assessed Cam's overall game would point to his ability to run; they would not do so for Andy. So once again: If you want to use a passer rating difference of 3.1 as some sort of validation of Andy's awesomeness. Have at it.

I think Dalton is better because his passer rating was 16 points higher than Cam's this season. Cam completed an abysmal 52.9% of his throws (lowest % I've seen from a non-Tebow starter in many years) while Dalton completed nearly 65% and hasn't completed less than 64% since 2013. Dalton has ascended as a passer over the last couple seasons, whereas it seems Cam plateaued as a rookie.

I will always take the better passer at QB over the better runner. While Dalton is still going strong 5-6-7 years from now, history shows us that Cam will likely lose his legs and once that threat is gone, his effectiveness as a passer will likely decrease as well. All of this isn't even getting into Cam getting benched temporarily and chastised by pretty much everyone for his sour ***** attitude while Andy is an exemplary teammate.

As for the playoff stuff, I get that you're a big Marv guy, but most people feel he's the problem behind his 0-7 record (0-3 without Andy...with abysmal offensive/QB performance in every game). I know you also felt Carson was the problem during his era...maybe instead of always looking at QB, you should instead look at the one constant? HC's can have a major impact on their players. We see it every year in the NFL. Marv just can't get his guys over the playoff hump.

(01-07-2017, 09:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Oh, I am not supporting Cam....aside from being a physical freak, I don't think he is a better QB....and those hits are starting to take their toll.  Cam was awful and anytime things don't go as he wants, he turns in to a pouting baby.  Not a leader.  

Dalton never once called out his horrible protection, lack of a running game, or his pathetic offensive scheme that always had him at the same spot for defenses to target.  He is tough as nails.  

I know you weren't supporting Cam. I was basically adding on to what you were saying. We're discussing weapons as if Cam had a comparable season when in actuality, it was nowhere close. I could've worded my post better. My bad.

(01-08-2017, 01:14 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think Dalton is better because his passer rating was 16 points higher than Cam's this season. Cam completed an abysmal 52.9% of his throws (lowest % I've seen from a non-Tebow starter in many years) while Dalton completed nearly 65% and hasn't completed less than 64% since 2013. Dalton has ascended as a passer over the last couple seasons, whereas it seems Cam plateaued as a rookie.

I will always take the better passer at QB over the better runner. While Dalton is still going strong 5-6-7 years from now, history shows us that Cam will likely lose his legs and once that threat is gone, his effectiveness as a passer will likely decrease as well. All of this isn't even getting into Cam getting benched temporarily and chastised by pretty much everyone for his sour ***** attitude while Andy is an exemplary teammate.

As for the playoff stuff, I get that you're a big Marv guy, but most people feel he's the problem behind his 0-7 record (0-3 without Andy...with abysmal offensive/QB performance in every game). I know you also felt Carson was the problem during his era...maybe instead of always looking at QB, you should instead look at the one constant? HC's can have a major impact on their players. We see it every year in the NFL. Marv just can't get his guys over the playoff hump.

If you want to use this year's passer rating as the determination then I have no problem saying Andy is the 15th best QB in the NFL. Even though this year one or two I'd put Andy ahead of had a better passer rating and a couple had worse. That's about where I put him. Mid-Tier, serviceable starter. Glad we could reach common ground. 

(01-08-2017, 01:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If you want to use this year's passer rating as the determination then I have no problem saying Andy is the 15th best QB in the NFL. Even though this year one or two I'd put Andy ahead of had a better passer rating and a couple had worse. That's about where I put him. Mid-Tier, serviceable starter. Glad we could reach common ground. 

What would you call the 28th rated passer this year?

(01-08-2017, 01:40 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What would you call the 28th rated passer this year?

One of the worse starting QBs in the NFL this season. 

(01-08-2017, 01:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: One of the worse starting QBs in the NFL this season. 

Yet you think someone capable such a season in 2 of the last 3 years (Cam ranked 26th in 2014) is somehow clearly better than Andy? I tell you one thing, we never have to worry that Dalton will have a season that ugly. If Dalton has a game where he completed 53% or has a 75 rating some on here already have pitchforks out. Imagine an entire season of that.

Fwiw, the rushing difference wasn't even that big this year. Cam rushed for 350 and 5 TDs. Andy rushed for 184 and 4 TDs.