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How to gain our identity back, and then take that step forward (full offseason plan)
#1
Rather than "tear it up", they need to fortify the OL and keep the youth flowing into a defense that can mirror the Zimmer days. That is this team's identity. Sure, maybe we get lucky and a Mike Williams slips to 9, or they sign a big name FA but let's be realistic....

By the end of FA, they should have a descent offense
-Your goal should be to TRULY fix the offensive line....plus keep Dre and possibly Lafell

You need to sign TWO B+ level or above OL starters and at least another fringe vet to challenge Westerman, Ogbuehi, Fisher and even Boling (though only a youngster suddenly dominating would bench him). I don't care if it's Whit/Zeitler/John Sullivan or Whit/Wagner/Schwenke, or something similar. Spend the money to solidify the line and lockup Lafell at WR or replace him with a similar WR and they're set. Resist the temptation to throw big money at WR and don't overpay Burkhead, and go with what you have at TE into the draft. Trade McCarron and let the backup QB market come to you, but cash out with something like 1.5M to Hoyer before you're looking at Josh Johnson again. Defensively, Dre has had ups and downs and hopefully they throw a little more guaranteed money and a longer deal to get a lower annual salary. They can't afford to lose him. The big question mark after FA may be NT. I have this feeling they'll gamble on Peko returning for one last year with Marvin to share snaps with Billings (coming off an injury) and will play chicken even if they have to wait for a team to trim fat there or draft one by the 4th round.

Offense:
Starters
LT Andrew Whitworth
RT Ricky Wagner
WR Brandon Lafell
Backups
C/G Brian Schwenke
QB Brian Hoyer
RB4/ST Cedric Peerman

Defense:

Starter CB Dre Kirkpatrick
Backup DL Hunt or Gilberry


By the end of the draft they should have a descent defense...
-Guenther did a good job with what he was given, give him more.

He's going to inherit Jackson, Billings and Hardison back and SHOULD be given more reign to play the youngsters he wants. At 9 you're open to other positions, but it looks like a stud DE (Burnett), LB (Foster) or S (Adams, Hooker) could be BPA. This year, you're looking at the guy to come in and be high in the rotation. If they don't go DE at 9, be sure that they'll give Guenther a DE that can be a situational pass rusher and hopefully someone to challenge Will Clarke.

By the end of the draft you should end up with:

A starting defender
a rotational LB or pass rushing DE
a true NT (even if they are limited to rush downs)
a back end rotation defender

That sounds vague, so lets say its something like:

1. DE Derek Barnett Tennessee- He had great production and may not tear up the combine to make him unreachable. He'd be a well rounded DE to take this defense to another level to help take attention from Atkins and Dunlap, or finish plays that they cause. I really like Hooker here otherwise.

2. S Budda Baker Washington- Great ball skills at FS or slot but size drops him here. He's a weapon all over the field weather it's waiting to pounce across the middle, blitz or chase down a RB. Starting at FS lets you slide Iloka over and even toy with a 3rd safety (Smith or Williams) at times.

2.(McCarron trade) LB Jarrad Davis Florida- Shows athleticism and versatility to let Guenther move him, Burfict and Vigil all over the field. If they can get a push from their DL, Davis has the ability to clean up or even cover most TE's, not the ideal run stuff type though.

3. Jarron Jones DT Notre Dame- He has the size to play NT, can punch into the backfield one play and just hold his ground the next with the occasional wash out. He's a bit of a gamble, but if they can work with him he'd make a potent tandem with Billings and allow Hardison time at DE.

4. RB Samaje Perine Oklahoma- There is good value mid round at RB, this absolute bull falls to the Bengals in the 4th. Perine knows his role, hit the hole hard the revamped OL creates and be the threat that allows Andy to bring back the Boomer play action. He's the guy we thought Hill would be.

4. (comp) WR Carlos Henderson LA Tech- Big play, 20+yd per catch guy that can be put in occasionally to stretch the defense. He could challenge Core for playing time early in the rotation and allow you to slide Boyd over when giving one of the starters a break.

4. (comp) LB Connor Harris Lindenwood - Just seems like the small school guy they'll heavily scout and talk him up and actually take him. Very productive, smart and strong to play the middle. I think they slide Dansby inside and Harris splits time as they groom him to take over that role.


Give me some vets to add stability to the OL and some young defenders to bring back the defensive identity back to this team and I'm telling you we will be looking at them getting past the 1st round next year, if not by gaining a bye.
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#2
Agree with most of what you said, except drafting a WR in the 4th, that pick needs to be defense or OL.

Build from he trenches out and we will be fine, offensively we have the weapons, we need help along both fronts.
"We have been sentenced to life in the prison that is a Bengals fan and we are going to serve out our time"
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#3
Why not retain Zeitler AND Whitworth? Then roll with Fisher at RT and upgrade at Center either in the draft or free agency?
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#4
My full offseason plan:

After the Patriots' playoff run ends, see if it's possible to get Josh McDaniels for Head Coach (pipe dream, I know).

Bengals FA's:
Sign Whitworth to 2 year deal
Sign Winston to 2 year deal
Sign Kirkpatrick to 3 year deal
Sign LaFell to 2 year deal
Sign Burkhead to 2 year deal

Wait and see (price on FA goes down if not signed):
Zeitler
Peerman
Peko (for backup position and mentorship for younger players)

Current Team Moves:
Cut Jeremy Hill
Trade McCarron (if 3rd round or higher)
Cut Karlos Dansby
Cut Michael Johnson

Draft:
1st: DL/DE - Derek Barnett or one of the Alabama guys (Allen or Williams)
*if DL/DE's are drafted early and we miss on those guys, then I'd draft Rueben Foster
2nd: C - I've read that the LSU center and the OSU center are tops in the draft. So get either one of them.
3rd: LB or DL - depending on the first round pick
4th through 7th - address needs based on best available
UDFA: Kicker and long snapper
**Trading McCarron can also add another 3rd rounder or higher.

Training Camp: do everything possible to avoid injuries, especially to high-profile draft picks.
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#5
Would love most all of these moves. The trenches is definately where this team needs an upgrade. So the O-line would look like...

Whitworth - Boling - Schwenke - Westerman - Wagner ? Doesn't sound too bad.

Like that draft. Just think we should add a TE somewhere in the mid to late rounds.
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#6
(01-09-2017, 01:59 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: My full offseason plan:

After the Patriots' playoff run ends, see if it's possible to get Josh McDaniels for Head Coach (pipe dream, I know).

Bengals FA's:
Sign Whitworth to 2 year deal
Sign Winston to 2 year deal
Sign Kirkpatrick to 3 year deal
Sign LaFell to 2 year deal
Sign Burkhead to 2 year deal

Wait and see (price on FA goes down if not signed):
Zeitler
Peerman
Peko (for backup position and mentorship for younger players)

Current Team Moves:
Cut Jeremy Hill
Trade McCarron (if 3rd round or higher)
Cut Karlos Dansby
Cut Michael Johnson

Draft:
1st: DL/DE  - Derek Barnett or one of the Alabama guys (Allen or Williams)
*if DL/DE's are drafted early and we miss on those guys, then I'd draft Rueben Foster
2nd: C - I've read that the LSU center and the OSU center are tops in the draft. So get either one of them.
3rd: LB or DL - depending on the first round pick
4th through 7th - address needs based on best available
UDFA: Kicker and long snapper
**Trading McCarron can also add another 3rd rounder or higher.

Training Camp: do everything possible to avoid injuries, especially to high-profile draft picks.

Why cut Jeremy Hill? Bernard is coming off of a major injury.
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#7
i say we just draft the tackle from alabama Tongue
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Formerly known as Judge on the Bengals.com message board.
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#8
Just draft a shit-ton of offensive linemen and pass rushers.
Everything in this post is my fault.
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#9
(01-09-2017, 02:18 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Just draft a shit-ton of offensive linemen and pass rushers.

Yeah, maybe PA will hit the lottery with one of them that doesn't need to be coached up much.
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#10
(01-09-2017, 02:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why cut Jeremy Hill? Bernard is coming off of a major injury.

Jeremy Hill is one of the biggest clowns on the team. He had a good rookie year, but since then, he has done nothing to impress me. I thought this year, he would actually run angry given his costly fumble that lost our season last year.

Hill has one year left on his rookie deal and I don't see them signing him to another deal after that. I did outline that I wanted to bring back Burkhead in my plan. He was able to run with that burst and power I expected from Hill this year against a top defense in Baltimore. 

Bernard always seems to find a way to get positive yards and avoid running straight into the pile like Hill does. Hill instead wants to dance in the holes and run straight into tacklers. I was excited when Green-Ellis was cut thinking that Bernard would be given the starting nod, but then we drafted Hill. 

So overall, I would give Bernard the starting nod with Burkhead as the number 2. Number 3 back could be Peerman, a FA, or late round pick or something. But I am so ready to cut ties with Hill. 
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#11
RELAX!   Wink

Marvin has only had 2 seasons with a worse record than this year, and both times the Bengals made the playoffs the following year!   ThumbsUp

It's in the bag!!!   Rock On
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#12
(01-09-2017, 02:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why cut Jeremy Hill? Bernard is coming off of a major injury.

Agreed. He would be a solid backup to Rex while Gio takes his time. 
“Don't give up. Don't ever give up.” - Jimmy V

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#13
Ugh, where to begin..

Whenever you have to change out more than one part of a cohesive unit, such as an OL, it takes time to get all 5 pieces working in sync again. Unless you're the New England Patriots coaching staff, you never want to change out more than one moving part each year. The toughest issue to conquer, is changing out Center, as we really don't have anyone better than Bodine up to speed. Yes, I know they went radical, and plugged Bodine in as a rookie. That was the anomaly for the Bengals, as Bodine never has seemed to not get buried by 3-4 NTs.

As the situation stands, the Bengals are screwed. The best case scenario that I can come up with would be to sign Whit and Zeitler, cut losses on Ogbuehi, keep Fisher at RT, draft the best C available, that can handle huge guys one on one, to compete with Bodine, and draft both a Tackle and a Guard to develop.
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Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations

-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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#14
(01-09-2017, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ugh, where to begin..

Whenever you have to change out more than one part of a cohesive unit, such as an OL, it takes time to get all 5 pieces working in sync again.  Unless you're the New England Patriots coaching staff, you never want to change out more than one moving part each year.  The toughest issue to conquer, is changing out Center, as we really don't have anyone better than Bodine up to speed.  Yes, I know they went radical, and plugged Bodine in as a rookie.  That was the anomaly for the Bengals, as Bodine never has seemed to not get buried by 3-4 NTs.

As the situation stands, the Bengals are screwed.  The best case scenario that I can come up with would be to sign Whit and Zeitler, cut losses on Ogbuehi, keep Fisher at RT, draft the best C available, that can handle huge guys one on one, to compete with Bodine, and draft both a Tackle and a Guard to develop.

I like your best case scenario.

PA got us in this mess though, replace the bastid!
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#15
(01-09-2017, 03:29 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: Jeremy Hill is one of the biggest clowns on the team. He had a good rookie year, but since then, he has done nothing to impress me. I thought this year, he would actually run angry given his costly fumble that lost our season last year.

Hill has one year left on his rookie deal and I don't see them signing him to another deal after that. I did outline that I wanted to bring back Burkhead in my plan. He was able to run with that burst and power I expected from Hill this year against a top defense in Baltimore. 

Bernard always seems to find a way to get positive yards and avoid running straight into the pile like Hill does. Hill instead wants to dance in the holes and run straight into tacklers. I was excited when Green-Ellis was cut thinking that Bernard would be given the starting nod, but then we drafted Hill. 

So overall, I would give Bernard the starting nod with Burkhead as the number 2. Number 3 back could be Peerman, a FA, or late round pick or something. But I am so ready to cut ties with Hill. 

A lot of the issue at RB is because the Center is horrible.

You waive Hill and have Bernard coming off of a serious injury...which he likely won't be 100% all season. Then, you do what? Rely on Burkhead and Peerman? Hope that Bernard regains his form, when in reality those injuries take usually a full season before the player is back.
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#16
(01-10-2017, 08:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: A lot of the issue at RB is because the Center is horrible.

You waive Hill and have Bernard coming off of a serious injury...which he likely won't be 100% all season. Then, you do what? Rely on Burkhead and Peerman? Hope that Bernard regains his form, when in reality those injuries take usually a full season before the player is back.

The only way i would get rid of Hill is if we could get an extra pick in a trade.

Then draft a stud. You are right, cannot cut Hill with Gio coming off of injury. That could hurt us badly.
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#17
They are not getting rid of Hill.

No way.

You guys are dreaming.

I'm not a fan of his but I'm a realist.

If they can re-sign Rex at a decent salary... then he'll be back.

Otherwise it's Hill, Gio, and a draft pick.

Hill remains part of the trio no matter what.
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#18
(01-09-2017, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ugh, where to begin..

Whenever you have to change out more than one part of a cohesive unit, such as an OL, it takes time to get all 5 pieces working in sync again.  Unless you're the New England Patriots coaching staff, you never want to change out more than one moving part each year.  The toughest issue to conquer, is changing out Center, as we really don't have anyone better than Bodine up to speed.  Yes, I know they went radical, and plugged Bodine in as a rookie.  That was the anomaly for the Bengals, as Bodine never has seemed to not get buried by 3-4 NTs.

As the situation stands, the Bengals are screwed.  The best case scenario that I can come up with would be to sign Whit and Zeitler, cut losses on Ogbuehi, keep Fisher at RT, draft the best C available, that can handle huge guys one on one, to compete with Bodine, and draft both a Tackle and a Guard to develop.

I'd still like to see them get an upgrade to Winston in vet FA for RT and use Fisher some at times.

Re-sign Whit to short front loaded deal and tag Z.

Draft a C to compete with Bodine next season and an RG to eventually replace Z.
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#19
As long as Bodine is the Center we're in trouble whenever we try to run and also whenever we play teams with even decent interior defensive line players.
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#20
(01-10-2017, 09:15 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I'd still like to see them get an upgrade to Winston in vet FA for RT and use Fisher some at times.

Re-sign Whit to short front loaded deal and tag Z.

Draft a C to compete with Bodine next season and an RG to eventually replace Z.

I am down with that.
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