I'm in the camp of we need to look at FA to bolster the OLine goinginto next year, so I was looking through the FA tackle list and saw that Sebastian Vollmer is a FA this year.

As he's been one of the best RT in the league when healthy I would have assumed he was either going to be renewed by the Patriots or too expensive for us to pick up.

However he chose a bad time to get injured and was never activated.

I'd be keen to have a look at him. It would be a boom/bust kind of deal but if he has recovered to what he was he would be a definite upgrade on Winston/Fisher.

Main downside is coming back from injury introduces some risk, plus he's not massively position flexible - not sure he's ever played guard and even when he flexed to LT he was not as good. So it would probably be RT or nothing - same as Winston.

Worth a look?

(01-13-2017, 07:35 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I'm in the camp of we need to look at FA to bolster the OLine goinginto next year, so I was looking through the FA tackle list and saw that Sebastian Vollmer is a FA this year.

As he's been one of the best RT in the league when healthy I would have assumed he was either going to be renewed by the Patriots or too expensive for us to pick up.

However he chose a bad time to get injured and was never activated.

I'd be keen to have a look at him. It would be a boom/bust kind of deal but if he has recovered to what he was he would be a definite upgrade on Winston/Fisher.

Main downside is coming back from injury introduces some risk, plus he's not massively position flexible - not sure he's ever played guard and even when he flexed to LT he was not as good. So it would probably be RT or nothing - same as Winston.

Worth a look?

Anyone coached by Bill Belichick is always worth a look. Brandon LaFell is a perfect example because his fundamentals in all aspects of the game were so solid. He could run perfect routes, his catch radius is huge, and he blocks like a freight train. By all means, let's give Sebastian Vollmer a serious look.

I don't trust anyone who plays OL for the Pats. They take a bunch of scrubs and scheme/coach them up to be a decent unit.

Don't trust Broncos RBs, Seahawks CBs, or Pats OL.

If you're going to get a decent tackle in FA (doubtful the Bengals will, it's FA afterall) then you should at least go younger. Byron Bell would be my choice. Will turn 28 in a couple days, 6'5 340lb tackle who played for the 2015 Titans and the previous four season with the Panthers. Missed all of 2016, so should be available on a relatively good deal, but isn't injury prone because he only missed 2 games in the prior 5 seasons.

Looks like a good chance to buy low.



EDIT: 240 was clearly meant to be 340

(01-13-2017, 10:13 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't trust anyone who plays OL for the Pats. They take a bunch of scrubs and scheme/coach them up to be a decent unit.

Don't trust Broncos RBs, Seahawks CBs, or Pats OL.

If you're going to get a decent tackle in FA (doubtful the Bengals will, it's FA afterall) then you should at least go younger. Byron Bell would be my choice. Will turn 28 in a couple days, 6'5 240lb tackle who played for the 2015 Titans and the previous four season with the Panthers. Missed all of 2016, so should be available on a relatively good deal, but isn't injury prone because he only missed 2 games in the prior 5 seasons.

Looks like a good chance to buy low.

6' 5" and 240 lbs is pretty small for a RT...

(01-13-2017, 10:58 AM)spazz70 Wrote: 6' 5" and 240 lbs is pretty small for a RT...

I can't remember his name, but the center for Washington's "Hogs" was like 260 and I don't think they had one 300lber.  It's unbelievable how much bigger these guys have gotten.

(01-13-2017, 10:13 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't trust anyone who plays OL for the Pats. They take a bunch of scrubs and scheme/coach them up to be a decent unit.

Don't trust Broncos RBs, Seahawks CBs, or Pats OL.

If you're going to get a decent tackle in FA (doubtful the Bengals will, it's FA afterall) then you should at least go younger. Byron Bell would be my choice. Will turn 28 in a couple days, 6'5 240lb tackle who played for the 2015 Titans and the previous four season with the Panthers. Missed all of 2016, so should be available on a relatively good deal, but isn't injury prone because he only missed 2 games in the prior 5 seasons.

Looks like a good chance to buy low.

Please take this as I mean it -- not personally because you're among my favorite posters -- but with all due respect, "buying low" partially explains the Bengals' lack of talent in certain key positions.

(01-13-2017, 10:13 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't trust anyone who plays OL for the Pats. They take a bunch of scrubs and scheme/coach them up to be a decent unit.

Don't trust Broncos RBs, Seahawks CBs, or Pats OL.

If you're going to get a decent tackle in FA (doubtful the Bengals will, it's FA afterall) then you should at least go younger. Byron Bell would be my choice. Will turn 28 in a couple days, 6'5 240lb tackle who played for the 2015 Titans and the previous four season with the Panthers. Missed all of 2016, so should be available on a relatively good deal, but isn't injury prone because he only missed 2 games in the prior 5 seasons.

Looks like a good chance to buy low.

You know, I see a lot of people mentioning Byron Bell.

He was hurt all this year, so there's no contribution from him for that good running game.
Jack Conklin was the RT for the Titans and was named all-pro as a rookie.

In 2015, Bell played seven games at LG, eight at RT, and the finale at LT due to an injury to Lewan.
This offense ranked 28th in rushing attempts, 25th in rushing yards, 18th in rushing TDs, and 17th rushing yards per attempt.
In the passing game, the offense was also in the bottom half of the league in every category.

His four years at Carolina also were labeled as substandard or mediocre. He was considered a below-average starter at OT.
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/7/27/9049689/defending-byron-bell

Would Byron Bell really be that much of an upgrade to this OL? Sure, he's versatile in that he can play practically every spot but C, but he doesn't really seem like a great starter. I'd rather stick with Fisher at RT to start over Bell. But Bell might be a good backup OL or consolation prize as a stopgap RG if Zeitler leaves in FA.

If it comes down to paying Whitworth $10 million a year for 2 years, or a young guy like Riley Reiff $8-10 million a year for 4-5 years...I'd sign Reiff in a second.

(01-13-2017, 12:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Please take this as I mean it -- not personally because you're among my favorite posters -- but with all due respect, "buying low" partially explains the Bengals' lack of talent in certain key positions.

I agree. We'd be better off paying 2 players that were sure upgrades.

Bringing the mid-30's veterans in or the former 1st Round bust hasn't worked out great here. The sad thing is we have enough cap space to sign a decent starter.

I believe I've mentioned this here before but Riley Reiff (Lions) and Mike Remmers (Panthers) are two serviceable free agent OTs who have tread left on their tires and wouldn't break the bank.

(01-13-2017, 07:35 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I'm in the camp of we need to look at FA to bolster the OLine goinginto next year,  so I was looking through the FA tackle list and saw that Sebastian Vollmer is a FA this year.

As he's been one of the best RT in the league when healthy I would have assumed he was either going to be renewed by the Patriots or too expensive for us to pick up.

However he chose a bad time to get injured and was never activated.

I'd be keen to have a look at him.  It would be a boom/bust kind of deal but if he has recovered to what he was he would be a definite upgrade on Winston/Fisher.

Main downside is coming back from injury introduces some risk, plus he's not massively position flexible - not sure he's ever played guard and even when he flexed to LT he was not as good.  So it would probably be RT or nothing - same as Winston.

Worth a look?

fisher isn't the tackle we gotta worry about

(01-13-2017, 01:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You know, I see a lot of people mentioning Byron Bell.

He was hurt all this year, so there's no contribution from him for that good running game.
Jack Conklin was the RT for the Titans and was named all-pro as a rookie.

In 2015, Bell played seven games at LG, eight at RT, and the finale at LT due to an injury to Lewan.
This offense ranked 28th in rushing attempts, 25th in rushing yards, 18th in rushing TDs, and 17th rushing yards per attempt.
In the passing game, the offense was also in the bottom half of the league in every category.

His four years at Carolina also were labeled as substandard or mediocre. He was considered a below-average starter at OT.
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/7/27/9049689/defending-byron-bell

Would Byron Bell really be that much of an upgrade to this OL? Sure, he's versatile in that he can play practically every spot but C, but he doesn't really seem like a great starter. I'd rather stick with Fisher at RT to start over Bell. But Bell might be a good backup OL or consolation prize as a stopgap RG if Zeitler leaves in FA.

Agreed. I remember when Jordan Gross retired from the Panthers. Bell was immediately thrust into the LT spot. I don't know how hard they tried to find a LT in the draft, but it seemed like they were content with Bell even though a lot of analysts thought it was a bad idea. Low and behold, he sucked.

(01-13-2017, 12:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Please take this as I mean it -- not personally because you're among my favorite posters -- but with all due respect, "buying low" partially explains the Bengals' lack of talent in certain key positions.

Nope, nothing personal taken. (I hate you now, but nothing personal. Lol )... I am not saying I prefer a method of buying low, but when I discuss FA, I generally try to at least make it Bengals-plausible moves.

So I won't mention Le'Veon Bell or anything, but I will mention guys coming off a season long injury who would be cheaper. It's not my ideal solution, but I am just trying to work it within the rough outlines of what the Bengals are actually willing to do. Of course the sad part is that even then it's often overstating their willingness to improve in FA.

I have long been a proponent that the Bengals need to get at least 1 2nd tier FA every year, possibly 2. Not saying they have to go out and get a Le'Veon Bell or a Peyton Manning, but in order to keep taking steps forward, there is a need to add 1 if not 2 sure upgrades in FA fairly frequently.

Bad Team + Good FAs = Bad Team
Good Team + Good FAs = Great Team

Honestly not sure where the Bengals fall on that after 2016.

(01-13-2017, 02:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If it comes down to paying Whitworth $10 million a year for 2 years, or a young guy like Riley Reiff $8-10 million a year for 4-5 years...I'd sign Reiff in a second.

I watch most lions games and am pretty familiar with Reiff.  I completely disagree with you.  Whit could lose several steps and still be a much better choice than Reiff on even a 4 year deal.

(01-13-2017, 02:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If it comes down to paying Whitworth $10 million a year for 2 years, or a young guy like Riley Reiff $8-10 million a year for 4-5 years...I'd sign Reiff in a second.

Some Lions fans have said Reiff plays like he is on his 'last legs' now. (see link below)

http://www.scout.com/nfl/lions/forums/1801-the-den/15227919-who-is-our-new-most-disappointing-lion

I've not watched anyway near enough of there games though to no if that is accurate or not though.

As a side note interestingly lots of comments about how disappointed they were with Jones in this thread as well.

When I watched the 2012 pre-draft activities Matt Kalil appeared to be on a different level than every other olineman working out. He's been up and down in Minnesota and there is talk they may let him walk.

WTS, our best option is to retain Whit and see if Ced can figure it out.

All for a vet RT, this should be our focus besides extending Whit and Zeitler/Dre.

Kalil, Vollmer, Reiff, Bell any would be good with me...