(01-18-2017, 02:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We invested a 1st Round Pick in Zeitler. He developed into a Top 10 Guard. He's going to want paid. We have cap space. Now it's time to retain him!

We are projected to have around $45 million in cap space so the money is there. He's already making $7.5 million. What's an extra million or two?

We should be able to retain BOTH Zeitler and Whitworth with $45 million in cap space.

Okay, I say it every year, and a little earlier this year given the suck ass year we had.

That $45 million will go something like this:

Starting with $45M
minus $12M for rookies (we have extra picks this year and are picking higher, so the rookie salaries will be higher than last year)
minus $8M injury contingency
That leaves a balance of $25M for free agency, contract extensions and any rollover to future years.

With that we have Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Whit, LaFell, etc.

Whit is almost a must resign due to Oggieboggie boy's serious suck factor.

(01-18-2017, 02:29 PM)treee Wrote: The Bengals have a great track record of retaining interior Oline talent, so I'm optimistic

Bodine does seem to keep hanging around.

(01-18-2017, 02:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's my concern...plus they need a Center upgrade. You can fix maybe one of those via the draft, but you need free agency to fix the other 2.

If Zeitler could play center, maybe I would sign him...but I can't help but think he isn't worth the near $10 million people are quoting.  He isn't the same player after he decided he didn't want to be "the fat guy" any longer. 

I just can't put a finger on it.  He's a solid pass blocker, but his run blocking (a key for a RG) is just average.  You don't pay $10 million a year to anyone that isn't a near Pro Bowl talent.

I know I am the minority here, but I think the money is much better spent in FA on Dre, Whit, and Sexy.  They will have a lot of picks, and if they get the RB or DE in the first, Dan Feeney from Indiana could likely fill the spot of Zeitler without much dropoff (he might be better).

It is nothing personal against Zeitler.   He has been a solid guy, but I just don't see paying that to anyone that isn't a difference maker.  Let him go and he is a third round compensatory pick in 2018.  

I've always thought Zeitler was overrated but PFF tells me I'm wrong. Them and Rex Burkhead tell me I'm wrong because Burkhead seems to do ok with the blocking he gets.

(01-19-2017, 07:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If Zeitler could play center, maybe I would sign him...but I can't help but think he isn't worth the near $10 million people are quoting.  He isn't the same player after he decided he didn't want to be "the fat guy" any longer. 

I just can't put a finger on it.  He's a solid pass blocker, but his run blocking (a key for a RG) is just average.  You don't pay $10 million a year to anyone that isn't a near Pro Bowl talent.

I know I am the minority here, but I think the money is much better spent in FA on Dre, Whit, and Sexy.  They will have a lot of picks, and if they get the RB or DE in the first, Dan Feeney from Indiana could likely fill the spot of Zeitler without much dropoff (he might be better).

It is nothing personal against Zeitler.   He has been a solid guy, but I just don't see paying that to anyone that isn't a difference maker.  Let him go and he is a third round compensatory pick in 2018.  

So the bengals OL was the biggest downfall last year and we want to let arguably the best one walk because he bengals don't want to pay fair market value? 

This has the makings of Steinbach all over again.  Bengals signed Wilkie Anderson who fell off the proverbial cliff while Steinbach went on to play at a pro owl level for about 5 more years before injuries caught up.  

I'm not saying that whit is Anderson, but he is much closer to the end than the beginning.  

Also, with Andy on his 15m/year they can afford to invest more into the offensive line to offset the difference.  Andy plus Zietler is cheaper than some QBs alone.

Yeah, I think you have to resign him. Only adding a 2-3 mil bump total with him & Whit? That still keeps us around top 5 for cap paid to o-line, which is actually kinda sad to think they were that bad last year being a top 10 cap hit line. They even spend more than the 'boys :-(

(01-19-2017, 01:07 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Okay, I say it every year, and a little earlier this year given the suck ass year we had.

That $45 million will go something like this:

Starting with $45M
minus $12M for rookies (we have extra picks this year and are picking higher, so the rookie salaries will be higher than last year)
minus $8M injury contingency
That leaves a balance of $25M for free agency, contract extensions and any rollover to future years.

With that we have Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Whit, LaFell, etc.

Whit is almost a must resign due to Oggieboggie boy's serious suck factor.

You're giving the Bengals.com PR spin answer:

We have the 11th most cap space in the NFL...and teams with less cap space than us will find a way to structure a contract in a way to sign Whitworth or Zeitler away from us.

And that doesn't even touch on the possibility of waiving MJ, Maualuga, Jones or some of the other usual suspects.

They can retain both Whitworth and Zeitler if they want to.

(01-19-2017, 10:37 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: So the bengals OL was the biggest downfall last year and we want to let arguably the best one walk because he bengals don't want to pay fair market value? 

This has the makings of Steinbach all over again.  Bengals signed Wilkie Anderson who fell off the proverbial cliff while Steinbach went on to play at a pro owl level for about 5 more years before injuries caught up.  

I'm not saying that whit is Anderson, but he is much closer to the end than the beginning.  

Also, with Andy on his 15m/year they can afford to invest more into the offensive line to offset the difference.  Andy plus Zietler is cheaper than some QBs alone.

Exactly! Which was my point. You draft an OG in the 1st Round...he plays really well...then he's due to get paid and it's like "Oh no, I wouldn't pay a Guard that much."

Then don't draft a Guard in the 1st Round!

(01-19-2017, 01:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Exactly! Which was my point. You draft an OG in the 1st Round...he plays really well...then he's due to get paid and it's like "Oh no, I wouldn't pay a Guard that much."

Then don't draft a Guard in the 1st Round!

Why not? Got us a pretty good player for 5 years at a pretty good price.

(01-19-2017, 01:56 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Why not? Got us a pretty good player for 5 years at a pretty good price.

Yeah...and we'll let him walk...and then need a Tackle, Guard, and Center on the offensive line...and that's IF they can retain Whitworth who will be 35. We'll have probably the worst offensive line in the NFL in the scenario where Zeitler walks.

If your concern is about signing every player to a team friendly contract...it's not going to happen.

(01-18-2017, 02:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We invested a 1st Round Pick in Zeitler. He developed into a Top 10 Guard. He's going to want paid. We have cap space. Now it's time to retain him!

We are projected to have around $45 million in cap space so the money is there. He's already making $7.5 million. What's an extra million or two?

We should be able to retain BOTH Zeitler and Whitworth with $45 million in cap space.

Get it done...

(01-19-2017, 12:46 AM)Joelist Wrote: Actually TJ Johnson did look decent when the coaches FINALLY benched Bodine. Then of course they had their usual brain freeze, reinserted Bodine and the blocking problems promptly returned. If they were to tag Big Z, resign Whit, insert Fisher at RT and cut Bodine in favor of Johnson I would be content.

If i am not mistaken TJ played LG pretty much all day and that is where he was decent.

Not at Center where he has never looked very good. I also am sure it helped having Whitworth to his left.

We need a new Center and TJ Johnson is not it. He would of played better in Preseason against the 3's and 4's.

(01-19-2017, 10:37 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: So the bengals OL was the biggest downfall last year and we want to let arguably the best one walk because he bengals don't want to pay fair market value? 

This has the makings of Steinbach all over again.  Bengals signed Wilkie Anderson who fell off the proverbial cliff while Steinbach went on to play at a pro owl level for about 5 more years before injuries caught up.  

I'm not saying that whit is Anderson, but he is much closer to the end than the beginning.  

Also, with Andy on his 15m/year they can afford to invest more into the offensive line to offset the difference.  Andy plus Zietler is cheaper than some QBs alone.

10 mil a year is HIGH for a OG  I would find it hard to pay the best OG in the league that  when you have OT's C and all the rest to invest in.

Hope he stays at a team friendly deal if not...   Replace him in the draft or see what Westerman has got...

(01-19-2017, 02:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: 10 mil a year is HIGH for a OG  I would find it hard to pay the best OG in the league that  when you have OT's C and all the rest to invest in.

Hope he stays at a team friendly deal if not...   Replace him in the draft or see what Westerman has got...

Guards are really important to team success in the NFL as the position has evolved.

Personally, I think they'll offer Zeitler whatever they value at the position. If he says no, they'll offer that to Whit. I'll be surprised if we keep both, unless it's to 1-year deals (Whit at an extension, Zeitler franchised). They'll likely set back $15-$20 million for extensions for future players, so one-year deals on each won't impact those dollars as much in the following years.

But I'll be very surprised if that happens, as that would tie up that extension money for a season and would have us paying Zeitler $14 million.

(01-19-2017, 02:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: 10 mil a year is HIGH for a OG  I would find it hard to pay the best OG in the league that  when you have OT's C and all the rest to invest in.

Hope he stays at a team friendly deal if not...   Replace him in the draft or see what Westerman has got...

I don't know Xeno, Guards have been paid bigtime in the past and were critical to teams winning the SB.

The Saints when they won and the Ravens with Yanda to name a few. Sometimes they are worth it when they
are that good. Difference is i don't know if Zeitler is that good right now. If he wants something crazy you tag.

(01-19-2017, 03:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Guards are really important to team success in the NFL as the position has evolved.

Agreed, especially in the run game, too bad Zeitler is not the best run blocking Guard right now.

(01-19-2017, 03:10 PM)Benton Wrote: Personally, I think they'll offer Zeitler whatever they value at the position. If he says no, they'll offer that to Whit. I'll be surprised if we keep both, unless it's to 1-year deals (Whit at an extension, Zeitler franchised). They'll likely set back $15-$20 million for extensions for future players, so one-year deals on each won't impact those dollars as much in the following years.

But I'll be very surprised if that happens, as that would tie up that extension money for a season and would have us paying Zeitler $14 million.

I still say they should do it.

Do that and sign a decent FA at RT to a multi-year escalating contract.

Pay money to Z in a tag and front load a very short contract to Whit.

Then figure out the mess at Center via draft and existing players competing.

(01-19-2017, 03:16 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I still say they should do it.

Do that and sign a decent FA at RT to a multi-year escalating contract.

Pay money to Z in a tag and front load a very short contract to Whit.

Then figure out the mess at Center via draft and existing players competing.

Yes, what Rocker said.

Draft Dalvin Cook and a Center in the 2nd or 3rd and our whole team is ten times better than last year.

Imagine if we did all of this and hired a new O-line coach that coaches his players up in-season!

(01-19-2017, 03:16 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I still say they should do it.

Do that and sign a decent FA at RT to a multi-year escalating contract.

Pay money to Z in a tag and front load a very short contract to Whit.

Then figure out the mess at Center via draft and existing players competing.

I'd love to see them do that (or add a center in FA if there's anything worth having). But I think we'll see either Whit or Zeitler here next season, and half a season (if we draft a rookie) to one more year out of Bodine as the experiment continues.

(01-19-2017, 03:26 PM)Benton Wrote: I'd love to see them do that (or add a center in FA if there's anything worth having). But I think we'll see either Whit or Zeitler here next season, and half a season (if we draft a rookie) to one more year out of Bodine as the experiment continues.

This FA is weak as far as Center and if we drafted a Center in the 2nd or 3rd to compete with Bodine and it is an honest
competition we win either way. Most likely the new guy wins but if not, Bodine improves with the competition.