(01-24-2017, 04:05 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Which is a worse black eye on an organization or a city... Pacman's latest arrest and behavior, or Roethlisberger's multiple rape allegations without an arrest?

I think that what Ben did was MUCH worse in regards to a black eye on an organization and city. Yet never an arrest, cut, or even a suspension even though it's in total violation of the league policy you linked.

I'm with you here.  

Lets also not forget that the league has sent him a 1099 participate in the ROOKIE SYMPOSIUM and talk about MAKING GOOD DECISIONS.  Who's the idiot in that situation?  

also, here's a quote from him from '13  .."I've made this bed for myself. I'm not comfortable lying in it, but at some point, the past has to be the past. … I'm truly proud of the person I've become, and I'm still growing every day. I don't have no regrets or worries."


HAHHAAHHA!  Anyway.  I don't actually care about him being an asshat on the streets.  I care about him being a douche on the field at times and the fact that there HAS TO BE A BETTER OPTION than a guy his age.  He's still here because he's cheap and knows he can't do any better than the 1 ply mike and katie provide.  

(01-24-2017, 04:05 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Look, I'm not saying that what Adam Jones did is something that is OK. I'm saying that I don't care. It didn't morally offend me. Him telling a cop that he hopes he dies is not shocking to me. I'm sure a lot of people drunkenly say dumb shit to cops all the time while being arrested.

If the Bengals cut him or the NFL suspended him I would be happy. Not because of the arrest. That was pretty minor, IMO. But because of the cap money saved.

In response to your code of conduct.... Players violate that all the time and nothing happens to them.

Which is a worse black eye on an organization or a city... Pacman's latest arrest and behavior, or Roethlisberger's multiple rape allegations without an arrest?

I think that what Ben did was MUCH worse in regards to a black eye on an organization and city. Yet never an arrest, cut, or even a suspension even though it's in total violation of the league policy you linked.

I cannot speak to why or how they enforce their punishments, but I want him cut only because of his off the field actions. The bengals singed him to that deal, so they should honor it if he's producing and abiding by the code of conduct set forth. 

And I don't why you're trying to reason with other cases when there's no need too. Ben fudged up, Pacman fudged up, anyone who breaks the law ***** up. Anyone who talks like this ***** up. Does it make better to say "since player x was worse, let him go " or "I am not the only one who curses out cops while drunk" so it's ok. I would hope not.

Adam Jones was on probation for a fight in West Virginia, when drafted.
Adam Jones was arrested on charges of assault and felony vandalism from a night club altercation.
Adam Jones refused to pay for any valet services, saying he didn't have any money, police counseled him.
Adam Jones had his probation extended 90 days because he had not made regular and sufficient contact with his probation officer.
Adam Jones was arrested for an incident out of his home, charges for marijuana permission were dismissed.
Adam Jones was involved in a cocaine bust.
Adam Jones was arrested for disorderly conduct and public intoxication at a night club.
Adam Jones was cited for misdemeanor assault for spitting at another night club.
Adam Jones was involved in an alteraction with a dancer at a strip club. He grabbed a stripper by the hair and slammed her head on the stage. Shots were fired, a guard was hit and paralyzed from the waist down.
Adam Jones was accused of hitting a woman in a strip club (no arrest).
Adam Jones was charged with 2 felony counts and accepted a plea deal. He was sentenced to 1 year in prison.
Adam Jones was sued for biting a man's left ankle.
Adam Jones was involved in an altercation with his bodyguard and was suspended 4 games.
Adam Jones was arrested for obstructing official business, disorderly conduct, assault, and a felony charge of harassment with a bodily substance.

So I was just thinking, I wonder if they are waiting to cut him in the new league year? I think the cap hit goes down next year, so technically it benefits them to wait until the new league year.

(01-24-2017, 04:34 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I cannot speak to why or how they enforce their punishments, but I want him cut only because of his off the field actions. The bengals singed him to that deal, so they should honor it if he's producing and abiding by the code of conduct set forth. 

And I don't why you're trying to reason with other cases when there's no need too. Ben fudged up, Pacman fudged up, anyone who breaks the law ***** up. Anyone who talks like this ***** up. Does it make better to say "since player x was worse, let him go " or "I am not the only one who curses out cops while drunk" so it's ok. I would hope not.

I'm not saying anything is or is not ok. I'm saying that if there is going to be a punishment per NFL standards, which YOU brought into this, then it should be in consistency with those policies and procedures. it's unreasonable and unfair to only hold Adam Jones to this and not others, which is why I brought that up. Other players and other cities was to illustrate how professional athletes do not represent cities in any meaningful way or to any long term detrimental consequences. People can say the Bengals are classless, but the City is not going to be part of that labeling. Unless, of course, the city has a history of sweeping things under rugs (a la Pittsburgh) and not arresting or prosecuting their pro athletes.

For the 5th time in this thread: I am OK with the Bengals, the NFL, and the city of Cincinnati either way they decide to go in regards to this single guy and in this instance. I can understand why people would want him gone. I can understand why they wouldn't or would take a wait and see attitude. I'm indifferent in this particular case as I don't think he did anything so outrageous that someone should lose their job. If he were a construction worker in a large company he would more than likely still have a job. I'm not going to hold a pro athlete to a higher standard than most other manual labor professions.

(01-24-2017, 05:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: So I was just thinking, I wonder if they are waiting to cut him in the new league year? I think the cap hit goes down next year, so technically it benefits them to wait until the new league year.

The money is the money. I don't see why it would matter as the $ amount wouldn't change between league years.

(01-05-2017, 03:06 PM)grampahol Wrote: Jones is one of those guys who gets on the police shitlist and every little thing becomes an issue for better or worse. I've known a few people who get on those lists and get busted for relatively nothing so everything looks like a huge deal whether it is or not. I also know police will quite often pile on charges that never actually happened like throwing s**t at the wall to see what sticks. 
I wasn't there and don't particularly trust the local news people to report in an unbiased manner.  The media smells blood in the water and are looking for a feast. Right now Jones is wounded with plenty of sharks nearby.  We'll see how it plays out. 

To be fair there are some asshole cops out there. When i was young and stupid, I was riding back from a bar with friends when a couple friends in the car started fighting so i got out. I tried to call a cab from a pay phone (no cell phone back in the day) but kept getting a busy signal, got pissed and slammed the receiver down and started my long drunkin walk to Dent from Price hill where I got out. I got several blocks up the road when a cop stops to question me and about the phone. Someone called and said I was being loud and broke a pay phone. I told the cops that i was just upset cause i couldnt get a cab and hung the phone up with some anger. They had me get in the car and ride back to the pay phone to see if it was damaged, we looked at it and i told them i was sorry, that I was just upset and said see the phone is fine, their exact words were, so what were gonna take you to jail anyway, i asked for what, they said because they feel like it. So then of course they got me with disorderly conduct cause i was pissed and calling them every name in the book on my way to the justice center. When I got there about 4 cops took me in a cell and said, there are no cameras in here, took out their sticks and beat the shit out of me.

Another time I was walking home from a bar that was pretty close to my house and I wouldnt drink and drive, and a cop stopped me because I look really young for my age, he asked what i was doing out after curfew, I told him I was 22 so he ran my name etc. Well turns out an old friend of mine used my name somehow when he stole a car and never showed for court. I tried to tell the cop that it was not me but he didnt believe me so yup off to jail I went. I was arrested 2 more times for what an old friend did but i couldnt prove anything cause at the time I didnt know who used my name. Later I heard from some other friends who it was that used my name just in time for a court case, I showed up and wouldnt you know it, got arrested again, they didnt want to hear anything about what i found out. So im sitting in my cell pissed off beyond belief when someone comes up and says they have a description of the person who stole the car and commited the other crimes, they said well this cant be you, you dont have brown eyes, black hair, etc etc. WTF why couldnt they do this sooner. So they let me go but by now awww i have a record. I have a record for doing nothing. Oh wait it gets better.

So a few years go by and me and my girlfriend are splitting up, turns out she was cheating on me with someone else in the apartment building. So im moving my things out putting them in storage till I figure shit out and well I slipped in storage, tried to catch myself by grabing the metal rail on the wall when it nearly cuts my finger off. I go back to the apartment to clean it up only to realize I need stitches so I go to the hospital. In the meantime the couple living in the apartment next to mine are fighting and cops are called. When they show up, the guy answers the door (whom I dont like cause he's a dick) and tells the cops that it wasent them, that they must have the wrong apartment, so they see the blood going to mine and yup you guessed it, they come to the damn hospital and arrest me, before I can even get treated. So they hold me till court on Monday, in the meantime I still have a makeshift bandage around my hand, cut is infected, they do nothing for it. I go to court Monday and my brother-in-law showed up to explain to the judge what happen cause he was helping me move. Well my Ex dosent show, so the Judge dosent want to hear my brother-in-law at all, sets my bail at 50k 50 freakin k cause of course i have record now, 50k and thats the 10% untill he hears the story frommy Ex in person. It took them 2 weeks after she went down to talk to the judge to get me out. Now my damn nerves in my hand are dead, open wound healed cannot reconect nerves, cant play the damn guitar anymore, all this BS for things I didnt do. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sorry kinda got on a rant there, So I moved to the country and everything has been fine since. So my advice to Pac Man is, just STOP putting yourself in situations where stupid shit like this can happen to you. Your a grown man with kids, wtf are you doing at a hotel or club at 2am on a Monday night.

(01-24-2017, 05:09 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The money is the money. I don't see why it would matter as the $ amount wouldn't change between league years.

It does affect the way it counts against the cap penalty.

edit:Looking at his contract though it shouldn't make much difference though based on his remaining bonus.

We need to move on, but Mike Brown will do nothing until re-signing Dre K, at the earliest.

(01-24-2017, 05:08 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm not saying anything is or is not ok. I'm saying that if there is going to be a punishment per NFL standards, which YOU brought into this, then it should be in consistency with those policies and procedures. it's unreasonable and unfair to only hold Adam Jones to this and not others, which is why I brought that up. Other players and other cities was to illustrate how professional athletes do not represent cities in any meaningful way or to any long term detrimental consequences. People can say the Bengals are classless, but the City is not going to be part of that labeling. Unless, of course, the city has a history of sweeping things under rugs (a la Pittsburgh) and not arresting or prosecuting their pro athletes.

For the 5th time in this thread: I am OK with the Bengals, the NFL, and the city of Cincinnati either way they decide to go in regards to this single guy and in this instance. I can understand why people would want him gone. I can understand why they wouldn't or would take a wait and see attitude. I'm indifferent in this particular case as I don't think he did anything so outrageous that someone should lose their job. If he were a construction worker in a large company he would more than likely still have a job. I'm not going to hold a pro athlete to a higher standard than most other manual labor professions.

I brought that up because the common theme seems to be "well, I've said or heard worse while being drunk and arrested" so why do we have to hold them to a higher standard?

Because he signed that right away to be an average joe smo when he entered the NFL and agreed to their code of conduct. Construction workers don't sign such things or I would say they would be too. So I'm not sure why you would compare that.

(01-24-2017, 05:08 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm not saying anything is or is not ok. I'm saying that if there is going to be a punishment per NFL standards, which YOU brought into this, then it should be in consistency with those policies and procedures. it's unreasonable and unfair to only hold Adam Jones to this and not others, which is why I brought that up. Other players and other cities was to illustrate how professional athletes do not represent cities in any meaningful way or to any long term detrimental consequences. People can say the Bengals are classless, but the City is not going to be part of that labeling. Unless, of course, the city has a history of sweeping things under rugs (a la Pittsburgh) and not arresting or prosecuting their pro athletes.

For the 5th time in this thread: I am OK with the Bengals, the NFL, and the city of Cincinnati either way they decide to go in regards to this single guy and in this instance. I can understand why people would want him gone. I can understand why they wouldn't or would take a wait and see attitude. I'm indifferent in this particular case as I don't think he did anything so outrageous that someone should lose their job. If he were a construction worker in a large company he would more than likely still have a job. I'm not going to hold a pro athlete to a higher standard than most other manual labor professions.

Goodell metes out punishment under the personal conduct policy in an almost arbitrary fashion. Almost. 

(01-24-2017, 06:15 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I brought that up because the common theme seems to be "well, I've said or heard worse while being drunk and arrested" so why do we have to hold them to a higher standard?

Because he signed that right away to be an average joe smo when he entered the NFL and agreed to  their code of conduct. Construction workers don't sign such things or I would say they would be too. So I'm not sure why you would compare that.

Again....

Why should Adam Jones be held to a higher standard than other players when it comes to the NFL conduct policy? They all signed the same blanket agreement. There are many many many instances where guys have done similar things to this and not been cut, suspended for a year (or at all), or even fined. For people to sit here and say that he should definitely be cut or suspended based on the conduct policy doesn't make sense if going by how the policy that you just linked has been administered.

(01-24-2017, 07:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Goodell metes out punishment under the personal conduct policy in an almost arbitrary fashion. Almost. 

I can't help that. The NFL and it's teams usually wait until all of the facts and the local law enforcement doe their thing before administering punishment for misdemeanors.

(01-24-2017, 07:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Again....

Why should Adam Jones be held to a higher standard than other players when it comes to the NFL conduct policy? They all signed the same blanket agreement. There are many many many instances where guys have done similar things to this and not been cut, suspended for a year (or at all), or even fined. For people to sit here and say that he should definitely be cut or suspended based on the conduct policy doesn't make sense if going by how the policy that you just linked has been administered.

I've never said he should be held to a higher standard than the others. I'm saying he should simply meet it or all bets are off.

(01-24-2017, 07:35 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Again....

Why should Adam Jones be held to a higher standard than other players when it comes to the NFL conduct policy? They all signed the same blanket agreement. There are many many many instances where guys have done similar things to this and not been cut, suspended for a year (or at all), or even fined. For people to sit here and say that he should definitely be cut or suspended based on the conduct policy doesn't make sense if going by how the policy that you just linked has been administered.

It's not about holding him to a higher standard, obviously.  It's the whole repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offender.  And he's become damaging on the field.   He's got loose cannon written all over him.  He's gone beyond being a cancer.  He is now a plague.

The mess at the end of the playoff game last year should have been the last straw, not this.

(01-24-2017, 11:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The mess at the end of the playoff game last year should have been the last straw, not this.

Odds are sadly he sees the last dime on his contract before he sees the last straw

When it comes to punishment, keep in mind he was also charged with a felony harassment with a bodily substance on top of the 3 misdemeanors. That word felony stands out a bit, and could be a big factor in his punishment.

I know in previous jobs with various companies, I would be fired if convicted of a felony, no question about it. And I have to think most people would in their jobs unless they work for a contractor or for themselves.

(01-24-2017, 07:39 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I can't help that. The NFL and it's teams usually wait until all of the facts and the local law enforcement doe their thing before administering punishment for misdemeanors.

Yes, I understand that, but what precedent was there to justify the length of Burfict's suspension to begin this past season compared to other player's with similar infractions?  Goodell pretty much just pulls numbers out of the air.  He could impose anything from no punishment to the Commissioner's expempted list with an indefinite suspension.  Pacman's recourse would be to appeal to Goodell to overturn Goodell's decision.

Plus Goodell is a damn liar who has said the NFL can't trust the police to investigate crimes in order for the NFL to get all the facts (Ray Rice situation.)

I wouldn't put any faith in Roger Goodell to show any sort of consistency when it comes to punishment.

(01-23-2017, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Does Adam Jones need to be released by the Bengals?  Absolutely.

Do the Bengals need to jump off the cliff of CB in the 1st, for the 4th time in recent memory?  Hell no.

Agree. Money could be spent on Dre. Need to hope that either WJIII or Dennard pan out. Both need a chance. Spending another 1st round pick offers no greater guarantee