(02-06-2017, 06:28 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Random question... is it possible to not be convicted of resisting arrest and/or assaulting an officer?  Obviously, whatever went on at the jail will be on tape.  I would also assume that the resist will be on tape from a body camera plus five or six officers to testify he did it.  I could see maybe getting out of whatever led to the arrest, but think it would be extremely difficult to get out of the whole thing.

This is NOT the only thing Pacman ever involved in.  How about 2007 Las Vegas Shooting in which he was suspended by NFL for 2007 season. In 2012 a judge ruled for the those suing and in 2015 Pacman appeal lost and he was forced to pay 13 million to one person and 1.2 million to an injured bouncer in that 2007 Las Vegas thing. Over the years he has felonies and many more misdemeanors besides Las Vegas or Cincinnati arrests..  He was also suspended by NFL 4 games for night club altercation with a body guard besides the year suspension.  He has been getting arrested from 2005 to this year of 2017. He gets arrested so much he probably just carries a rubber stamp of his fingerprints for his next arrest. From 2005 to now he has felonies, felonies plea bargained to misdemeanors and many misdemeanors besides those, NOT INCLUDING his 2017 arrest.

My word, if they suspend Burfict all the time for playing hard and don't suspend Pacman adding to a criminal record that is amazingly long, then the NFL is out to lunch.  Pacman probably will be suspended and rightfully so.  The NFL has given him not just 2nd or 3rd chances but try about a dozen.  The guy is a 10 time loser. 

As for other Bengals needing Terminated, that is for another day.  It is time to look at the weakest link. Do not tell me Pacman is one of best CBs in game, he is not.  He has declining skills due to age. Plus, you can not over look his legal problems and criminal record.  Get rid of his 6 million dollar contract and pay Kirkpatrick and also keep Whitworth, Zeitler, LaFell, Burkhead. It would be very STUPID to let Kirkpatrick leave and have Pacman suspended or kicked out of NFL forever. It is time to cut Pacman and keep Kirkpatrick. ......Mr. Pacman, after watching Patriots and Falcons in Super Bowl and asking how do we get to Super Bowl, you need to be the first to go Pacman. Yesterday if not sooner. You are Terminated Pacman.  Get To The Chopper. 

Jeremy Hill has a reserved seat on my chopper. I was fine with him until I saw Rex Burkhead run like gangbusters behind one of the worst offensive lines in recorded history.

(02-06-2017, 02:14 PM)kevin Wrote: PACMAN JONES....Reading into this, Bengals CAN cut him not over his legal problems which are many, but just say his play is declining with age....and Bengals get out from his 6.2 million contract....That 6.2 Million will be needed if we want to keep Kirkpatrick or Whitworth or Zeitler or Lafell or Peko, of Burkhead.....Giving a guy a second chance is one thing. Giving a guy a million chances is another. Plus it would be nice to have Kirkpatrick, Dennard and Jackson. Don't tell me Pacman is Pro Bowl when he will be lucky to be the 4th best CB on this team. Plus look for him to be suspended from NFL. He was suspended before by NFL and barely allowed back in NFL. He may be close to Odell Thurman on getting that career ending suspension. Suspended players are no good to this team or any other team.

Pacman, you are the weakest link....You are Terminated.....Get to the Chopper.

I do not understand this fascination with Dennard. IF he gets out of tc healthy, which he has yet to do he still allows an 86 percent completion rate.

(02-06-2017, 02:32 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Sorry, but Peko needs to go as well. You don't keep guys that are on a downhill slide just because they are "good locker room guys".

He's not starter quality anymore but he's a damn fine backup

(02-07-2017, 03:26 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I do not understand this fascination with Dennard.  IF he gets out of tc healthy, which he has yet to do he still allows an 86 percent completion rate.

You just made another reason why we can not let Kirkpatrick go to another team in March and have Pacman suspended a year or kicked out of NFL forever.  Then we would be down to Dennard and rookie first game Jackson.   

Also at this point, look, in 2015 Pacman lost his long time legal fight against 2007 Las Vegas Shootings and forced to pay 13 million to one person and another million to an injured nightclub worker. in 2017 arrested on felonies and misdemeanor charges in Cincinnati.  Those are legal.  Then there is Burficts hard hit penalty did not put Steelers in game winning field goal range with just seconds left, bur Pacman getting violent after the play did put Steelers in position to just walk out and kick play-off game winning field goal.  You could easily say that all of Pacmans off the field violence from 2005 on came out in that play-off losing penalty.  

So the choice of letting The Pacman go and putting that money towards keeping the younger and our top CB Kirkpatrick is a very easy choice.  This is not rocket science. Do we resign out best CB in Kirkpatrick OR hang on to an aging player of declining skills who is again back in legal trouble for a guy who has his NFL career has had many felonies and misdemeanors since 2005.  You would think keeping Kirkpatrick and Terminating Pacman would be a no brainer.  Plus, if the NFL does not suspend Pacman who was suspended a year for the 2007 shooting thing and also later 4 games for another nightclub brawl, then the NFL makes no sense.  Then Thurman being suspended for life was way over the top and NFL was just wrong.  Then all these suspensions of Burfict for playing hard just wrong. If Pacman doesn't get suspended or thrown out of NFL after his NFL criminal history, then nobody should ever get suspended and the NFL owes the late Henry family an apology for all his suspensions.   There is no defense for Pacman who the NFL had suspended from the game a year and let back in on the terms he must stay out of trouble with the law. 

Do you know that in about 20 or 30 days we lose Kirkpatrick to another team. The clock is ticking on Kirkpatrick gone. Hey, Mike Brown and Family, if your plan was to let him leave, you can't now. This Pacman that you signed to a high contract is in deep trouble with the law again on felony and misdemeanor charges from more late nigh, night club violence. The guy Never Learns. He is in deep, deep trouble with the law and NFL, but mostly the law because of his long, long past history of going before judges over felonies and misdemeanors. Judges look at that if NFL doesn't. Judges look at a first time offender or a Pacman being a 10 time loser. The judge will NOT be pleased reading his lifetime of violence, drugs and arrests and his attacks on police which have been several times. This is NOT his first resisting arrest. ....So Mr Brown, the clock is ticking on Kirkpatrick leaving. You know what you have to do now in February to keep Kirkpatrick early in March. You have to TERMINATE PACMAN. Get him to the Chopper.

July 2005 : Arrested for assault and felony vandalism at a nightclub.
Sept 2005 : In another incident with Police they notice he is in violation of not reporting to parole officer from July arrest.
Feb 2006 : Arrested and courts drooped marijuana charges while focusing on felony and misdemeanor charges of obstruction of justice.
Aug 2006 : Arrested for disorderly conduct and public intoxication in a night club. Judge gave him 6 months probation provided he stay out of trouble.
Oct 2006 : Arrested for misdemeanor assault in another night club. Titans suspend him one game.
Feb 2007 : The Las Vegas Shooting Case. Jones charged with one count of felony coercion, one misdemeanor count of battery and one misdemeanor count of threat to life.
2007 : NFL Suspends him a year for this.
June 2007 a civil suit filed against Jones.
November 2007 : Jones accepts a plea deal of no contest to misdemeanor of disorderly conduct in Feb incident. He was given a one year prison sentence but suspended on probation and 200 hours community service time.
Oct 2008 : After altercation with his body guard, NFL suspends Jones another 4 games.
Jan 2012 : Judge rules in favor of 2007 civil suit. Jones lawyers appeal.
Jan 2015 : Jones loses appeal and forced to pay one person 13 million and also an injured nightclub worker 1 million in the Feb 2007 Las Vegas shooting.
Jan 2017, This Year : Jones arrested for obstructing official business, disorderly conduct, assault, and felony charge of harassment with a bodily substance.

Now the Hamilton County Judge is going to look at this very long criminal record in ways you sports fans won't. This is not just the 2017 incident. All of his prison and jail time suspended probation also come into play here. It's a very long list or priors. The judge could throw the book at him. The NFL should say enough is enough....but today, right now, Bengals should Terminate him and tell him to get to the chopper. Then focus on resigning Kirkpatrick before he goes to another team in 20 or 30 days. ...Sources on internet say Bengals don't have to mention the legal mess, and can say cutting Pacman due to decline in his play. He is older and is on the decline. They can Terminate him TODAY on football reasons without team getting on record on the legal. He should be going to the chopper TODAY, so we can begin resigning Kirkpatrick.

If the goal is SUPER BOWL, How can Bengals say Pacman fits into that goal. Patriots wouldn't. you KNOW Patriots wouldn't. If Super Bowl is the Goal, then Pacman needs Terminated.

(02-06-2017, 05:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, but this is a matter of principality.  Also, if convicted, Jones will certainly be suspended.  We'll have to put faith in that cat anyway, may as well make it permanent.

This is the amazing thing:  He will be suspended whether he is convicted or not.  Therefore, he will take practice snaps from someone, take a roster space, and likely be very out of shape (like last year) when he does get to play.  Combine that with a "light just never seems to go on" attitude and he can pound sand.  

(02-06-2017, 05:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, but this is a matter of principality.  Also, if convicted, Jones will certainly be suspended.  We'll have to put faith in that cat anyway, may as well make it permanent.

I don't disagree, but people should not be surprised if it takes a couple of seasons for Jackson to be up to speed, just like Kirkpatrick. Some people seem to think he is going to come in and light it on fire, I hope he does, I really hope he does.... but my expectations are it will take awhile and the usual suspects here will be calling him a bust long before they are calling him a top corner.

(02-07-2017, 03:26 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I do not understand this fascination with Dennard.  IF he gets out of tc healthy, which he has yet to do he still allows an 86 percent completion rate.

Dennard has been playing mostly nickel CB and that is not his natural position.  I think he needs to be given an opportunity to compete with WJIII for the other outside spot with Dre returning.  I wouldn't overpay Dre, but I would like to see him here as he seemed to be our most improved player last year.  

(02-07-2017, 06:48 AM)kevin Wrote: You just made another reason why we can not let Kirkpatrick go to another team in March and have Pacman suspended a year or kicked out of NFL forever.  Then we would be down to Dennard and rookie first game Jackson.   

Also at this point, look, in 2015 Pacman lost his long time legal fight against 2007 Las Vegas Shootings and forced to pay 13 million to one person and another million to an injured nightclub worker. in 2017 arrested on felonies and misdemeanor charges in Cincinnati.  Those are legal.  Then there is Burficts hard hit penalty did not put Steelers in game winning field goal range with just seconds left, bur Pacman getting violent after the play did put Steelers in position to just walk out and kick play-off game winning field goal.  You could easily say that all of Pacmans off the field violence from 2005 on came out in that play-off losing penalty.  

So the choice of letting The Pacman go and putting that money towards keeping the younger and our top CB Kirkpatrick is a very easy choice.  This is not rocket science. Do we resign out best CB in Kirkpatrick OR hang on to an aging player of declining skills who is again back in legal trouble for a guy who has his NFL career has had many felonies and misdemeanors since 2005.  You would think keeping Kirkpatrick and Terminating Pacman would be a no brainer.  Plus, if the NFL does not suspend Pacman who was suspended a year for the 2007 shooting thing and also later 4 games for another nightclub brawl, then the NFL makes no sense.  Then Thurman being suspended for life was way over the top and NFL was just wrong.  Then all these suspensions of Burfict for playing hard just wrong. If Pacman doesn't get suspended or thrown out of NFL after his NFL criminal history, then nobody should ever get suspended and the NFL owes the late Henry family an apology for all his suspensions.   There is no defense for Pacman who the NFL had suspended from the game a year and let back in on the terms he must stay out of trouble with the law. 

Do you know that in about 20 or 30 days we lose Kirkpatrick to another team.  The clock is ticking on Kirkpatrick gone.  Hey, Mike Brown and Family, if your plan was to let him leave, you can't now. This Pacman that you signed to a high contract is in deep trouble with the law again on felony and misdemeanor charges from more late nigh, night club violence.  The guy Never Learns. He is in deep, deep trouble with the law and NFL, but mostly the law because of his long, long past history of going before judges over felonies and misdemeanors. Judges look at that if NFL doesn't. Judges look at a first time offender or a Pacman being a 10 time loser.  The judge will NOT be pleased reading his lifetime of violence, drugs and arrests and his attacks on police which have been several times. This is NOT his first resisting arrest. ....So Mr Brown, the clock is ticking on Kirkpatrick leaving. You know what you have to do now in February to keep Kirkpatrick early in March.  You have to TERMINATE PACMAN. Get him to the Chopper.

July 2005 : Arrested for assault and felony vandalism at a nightclub.
Sept 2005 : In another incident with Police they notice he is in violation of not reporting to parole officer from July arrest.
Feb 2006 : Arrested and courts drooped marijuana charges while focusing on felony and misdemeanor charges of obstruction of justice.
Aug 2006 : Arrested for disorderly conduct and public intoxication in a night club. Judge gave him 6 months probation provided he stay out of trouble.
Oct 2006 : Arrested for misdemeanor assault in another night club. Titans suspend him one game.
Feb 2007 : The Las Vegas Shooting Case. Jones charged with one count of felony coercion, one misdemeanor count of battery and one misdemeanor count of threat to life.  
2007 : NFL Suspends him a year for this.
June 2007 a civil suit filed against Jones.
November 2007 : Jones accepts a plea deal of no contest to misdemeanor of disorderly conduct in Feb incident. He was given a one year prison sentence but suspended on probation and 200 hours community service time.
Oct 2008 : After altercation with his body guard, NFL suspends Jones another 4 games.
Jan 2012 : Judge rules in favor of 2007 civil suit. Jones lawyers appeal.
Jan 2015 : Jones loses appeal and forced to pay one person 13 million and also an injured nightclub worker 1 million in the Feb 2007 Las Vegas shooting.
Jan 2017, This Year : Jones arrested for obstructing official business, disorderly conduct, assault, and felony charge of harassment with a bodily substance.

Now the Hamilton County Judge is going to look at this very long criminal record in ways you sports fans won't.  This is not just the 2017 incident. All of his prison and jail time suspended probation also come into play here. It's a very long list or priors. The judge could throw the book at him. The NFL should say enough is enough....but today, right now, Bengals should Terminate him and tell him to get to the chopper. Then focus on resigning Kirkpatrick before he goes to another team in 20 or 30 days. ...Sources on internet say Bengals don't have to mention the legal mess, and can say cutting Pacman due to decline in his play. He is older and is on the decline. They can Terminate him TODAY on football reasons without team getting on record on the legal.  He should be going to the chopper TODAY, so we can begin resigning Kirkpatrick.

If the goal is SUPER BOWL, How can Bengals say Pacman fits into that goal.  Patriots wouldn't. you KNOW Patriots wouldn't. If Super Bowl is the Goal, then Pacman needs Terminated.

Oh I'm a fan of pacman as is wjiii don't get me wrong but we have more than enough in cap space to sign all three big free agents. ESPECIALLY with only 2 free agents of note next year. He played bad first couple of games but played above average at the least last 10 games. Also we should be able to sign Dre k no problem with all the big time cornerbacks out there right now. Say what u want about pacman but him defending Antonio Brown is always a good thing considering he averages 40 yard less per game against us. 

(02-06-2017, 05:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maualuga and Bodine are the weakest links on offense and defense when talking about quality of starters. Oddly enough, both are in the middle.

:andy: :andy: :andy:

(02-06-2017, 10:06 PM)kevin Wrote: This is NOT the only thing Pacman ever involved in.  How about 2007 Las Vegas Shooting in which he was suspended by NFL for 2007 season. In 2012 a judge ruled for the those suing and in 2015 Pacman appeal lost and he was forced to pay 13 million to one person and 1.2 million to an injured bouncer in that 2007 Las Vegas thing. Over the years he has felonies and many more misdemeanors besides Las Vegas or Cincinnati arrests..  He was also suspended by NFL 4 games for night club altercation with a body guard besides the year suspension.  He has been getting arrested from 2005 to this year of 2017.  He gets arrested so much he probably just carries a rubber stamp of his fingerprints for his next arrest.  From 2005 to now he has felonies, felonies plea bargained to misdemeanors and many misdemeanors besides those, NOT INCLUDING his 2017 arrest.

My word, if they suspend Burfict all the time for playing hard and don't suspend Pacman adding to a criminal record that is amazingly long, then the NFL is out to lunch.  Pacman probably will be suspended and rightfully so.  The NFL has given him not just 2nd or 3rd chances but try about a dozen.  The guy is a 10 time loser. 

As for other Bengals needing Terminated, that is for another day.  It is time to look at the weakest link. Do not tell me Pacman is one of best CBs in game, he is not.  He has declining skills due to age. Plus, you can not over look his legal problems and criminal record.  Get rid of his 6 million dollar contract and pay Kirkpatrick and also keep Whitworth, Zeitler, LaFell, Burkhead.  It would be very STUPID to let Kirkpatrick leave and have Pacman suspended or kicked out of NFL forever. It is time to cut Pacman and keep Kirkpatrick. ......Mr. Pacman, after watching Patriots and Falcons in Super Bowl and asking how do we get to Super Bowl, you need to be the first to go Pacman. Yesterday if not sooner. You are Terminated Pacman.  Get To The Chopper. 

I am well aware that this is not even close to his first run in with the law, was simply asking a question.  By the way... what is with the random capitalization of words in your posts??

Honestly, the easiest choice is Rey Maualuaga. It's not that I don't like him (I'm actually a pretty big fan,) but he doesn't have a starting position on this team. The NFL has changed and the Bengals employ a base nickel defense, which means Rey is on the bench for over 50% of the snaps. That's not worth the contract that he has.

(02-06-2017, 10:24 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Jeremy Hill has a reserved seat on my chopper.  I was fine with him until I saw Rex Burkhead run like gangbusters behind one of the worst offensive lines in recorded history.

Sign me up.....I can't believe I forgot to add him to my hit list.  

(02-07-2017, 07:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is the amazing thing:  He will be suspended whether he is convicted or not.  Therefore, he will take practice snaps from someone, take a roster space, and likely be very out of shape (like last year) when he does get to play.  Combine that with a "light just never seems to go on" attitude and he can pound sand.  

Good point.  I think it's time to cut bait.

(02-07-2017, 10:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't disagree, but people should not be surprised if it takes a couple of seasons for Jackson to be up to speed, just like Kirkpatrick. Some people seem to think he is going to come in and light it on fire, I hope he does, I really hope he does.... but my expectations are it will take awhile and the usual suspects here will be calling him a bust long before they are calling him a top corner.

I'm with you, there will most likely be growing pains.  That said, we went 6-9-1 last season, and we have a lot of holes to fill.  I feel we're in a bit of a rebuild mode here.  May as well let the youngsters learn.

(02-07-2017, 01:17 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Honestly, the easiest choice is Rey Maualuaga.  It's not that I don't like him (I'm actually a pretty big fan,) but he doesn't have a starting position on this team.  The NFL has changed and the Bengals employ a base nickel defense, which means Rey is on the bench for over 50% of the snaps.  That's not worth the contract that he has.

Spot on.

(02-07-2017, 12:02 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Oh I'm a fan of pacman as is wjiii don't get me wrong but we have more than enough in cap space to sign all three big free agents. ESPECIALLY with only 2 free agents of note next year. He played bad first couple of games but played above average at the least last 10 games. Also we should be able to sign Dre k no problem with all the big time cornerbacks out there right now. Say what u want about pacman but him defending Antonio Brown is always a good thing considering he averages 40 yard less per game against us. 

As I said, The Hamilton County Judge is probably going to look at Pacman and his long list of priors much different than you who are a Pacman Fan.   If we let Kirkpatrick leave in March and keep Pacman, good chance Pacman either suspended or in jail 2017 season. I would rather have Kirkpatrick than Pacman anyway.  Pacman is in a ton of legal problems. This is no small thing. It will be no small thing to Hamilton County Judge or to NFL Commish....it's going to be pretty hard for Pacman to cover Brown or anybody in prison or suspended.  This is the nonsense Bengals tolerate and Patriots do not.  Bengals of no play-off win since 1990 season. Patriots of many play-off wins.

(02-07-2017, 02:12 PM)kevin Wrote: As I said, The Hamilton County Judge is probably going to look at Pacman and his long list of priors much different than you who are a Pacman Fan.   If we let Kirkpatrick leave in March and keep Pacman, good chance Pacman either suspended or in jail 2017 season. I would rather have Kirkpatrick than Pacman anyway.  Pacman is in a ton of legal problems. This is no small thing. It will be no small thing to Hamilton County Judge or to NFL Commish....it's going to be pretty hard for Pacman to cover Brown or anybody in prison or suspended.  This is the nonsense Bengals tolerate and Patriots do not.  Bengals of no play-off win since 1990 season. Patriots of many play-off wins.

Patriots had no problem picking up Michael Floyd off waivers right after he was released by the Cardinals for his DUI.

(02-07-2017, 01:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm with you, there will most likely be growing pains.  That said, we went 6-9-1 last season, and we have a lot of holes to fill.  I feel we're in a bit of a rebuild mode here.  May as well let the youngsters learn.

As much as people may not want to admit it, I think this team is definitely in rebuild mode.

(02-07-2017, 02:12 PM)kevin Wrote: As I said, The Hamilton County Judge is probably going to look at Pacman and his long list of priors much different than you who are a Pacman Fan.   If we let Kirkpatrick leave in March and keep Pacman, good chance Pacman either suspended or in jail 2017 season. I would rather have Kirkpatrick than Pacman anyway.  Pacman is in a ton of legal problems. This is no small thing. It will be no small thing to Hamilton County Judge or to NFL Commish....it's going to be pretty hard for Pacman to cover Brown or anybody in prison or suspended.  This is the nonsense Bengals tolerate and Patriots do not.  Bengals of no play-off win since 1990 season. Patriots of many play-off wins.

I'm also a big resign dre k fan but I disagree with you when it comes to the courts. If it mattered so much to them why are they waiting for the NFL to rule on it?

(02-07-2017, 02:22 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: As much as people may not want to admit it, I think this team is definitely in rebuild mode.

I guess it depends on your definition of rebuild.

To me - a rebuild would consist of getting a new QB, changing an offensive scheme or defensive scheme.  I don't see those happening.

Now, if we were open to using free agency, this team is not that far way from being in great shape.

QB - Dalton (good shape here)
RB - Hill and Bernard (really bad shape here, Bernard is coming off an ACL and Hill isn't the same as he used to be)
WR - Green, Boyd, Core, Wright (Some promise here, but needs some help if we don't bring LaFell back)
TE - Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft (set here, as long as people stay healthy)
OT - Whitworth, Fisher, Ced (really need Whitworth back, not in bad shape if he comes back)
OG - Boling and Zeitler (good shape here if Z comes back)
C - Well, here's a huge need

So, offensively, if we bring back Zeitler and Whitworth, there isn't a ton of needs.  We need a C and a RB along with a speed WR.  Easily done with good drafting in rounds 2,3,4

DE - Dunlap, MJ, Clarke.  (We are in pretty good shape here, but a speed rusher on the edge in round 1 would be great)
DT - Geno, Sims, Hardison, Thompson, Williams.  (Good shape here, a young stud would help)
LB - Burfict, Vigil, Rey, Maualuga (considering we run a nickel D, this unit is pretty good)
CB - WJ3, Dennard, Dre, Jones, Shaw, Russell (this is a pretty good group)
S - Iloka, Williams, Smith

Honestly, this isn't a huge rebuild.  Bringing back Dre, Whit and Z is huge, but if we do that, there aren't a ton of needs that need to be addressed:

1.  Pass rush (SAM, DE, Hybrid - anyone that would bring some pressure)
2.  RB (with Burkhead up in the air and Gio injured, we need someone in the draft)
3.  C (Feeney, Pocic, Elflein are all good replacements)
4.  WR (don't need a complete guy, just a guy that can spread the field a little to open the middle)

Really, it's not that much of a rebuild - unless we don't sign our own free agents.

(02-07-2017, 03:29 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I guess it depends on your definition of rebuild.

To me - a rebuild would consist of getting a new QB, changing an offensive scheme or defensive scheme.  I don't see those happening.

Now, if we were open to using free agency, this team is not that far way from being in great shape.

QB - Dalton (good shape here)
RB - Hill and Bernard (really bad shape here, Bernard is coming off an ACL and Hill isn't the same as he used to be)
WR - Green, Boyd, Core, Wright (Some promise here, but needs some help if we don't bring LaFell back)
TE - Eifert, Uzomah, Kroft (set here, as long as people stay healthy)
OT - Whitworth, Fisher, Ced (really need Whitworth back, not in bad shape if he comes back)
OG - Boling and Zeitler (good shape here if Z comes back)
C - Well, here's a huge need

So, offensively, if we bring back Zeitler and Whitworth, there isn't a ton of needs.  We need a C and a RB along with a speed WR.  Easily done with good drafting in rounds 2,3,4

DE - Dunlap, MJ, Clarke.  (We are in pretty good shape here, but a speed rusher on the edge in round 1 would be great)
DT - Geno, Sims, Hardison, Thompson, Williams.  (Good shape here, a young stud would help)
LB - Burfict, Vigil, Rey, Maualuga (considering we run a nickel D, this unit is pretty good)
CB - WJ3, Dennard, Dre, Jones, Shaw, Russell (this is a pretty good group)
S - Iloka, Williams, Smith

Honestly, this isn't a huge rebuild.  Bringing back Dre, Whit and Z is huge, but if we do that, there aren't a ton of needs that need to be addressed:

1.  Pass rush (SAM, DE, Hybrid - anyone that would bring some pressure)
2.  RB (with Burkhead up in the air and Gio injured, we need someone in the draft)
3.  C (Feeney, Pocic, Elflein are all good replacements)
4.  WR (don't need a complete guy, just a guy that can spread the field a little to open the middle)

Really, it's not that much of a rebuild - unless we don't sign our own free agents.

There are a lot of ifs there.  While it is not a total rebuild, it is a bit of one.  This team was 6-9-1 last year, and the offensive line was in shambles.  Several key players are aging, and many of the guys outlined here haven't shown a whole helluva lot. Knowing our cheapskate owner, all of our FAs won't be back.

(02-07-2017, 04:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: There are a lot of ifs there.  While it is not a total rebuild, it is a bit of one.  This team was 6-9-1 last year, and the offensive line was in shambles.  Several key players are aging, and many of the guys outlined here haven't shown a whole helluva lot. Knowing our cheapskate owner, all of our FAs won't be back.

Agree.  He lost me as soon as he included Fisher and Ogbuehi in an argument for "not in bad shape".

Considering every article or statement you see fails to mention Zeitler, I think we can all assume he is gone.  I personally think Kirkpatrick is also going to get big money and leave.  My guess is that Whitworth returns, although part of me would like to see him go get a ring somewhere.