"They put the long-term money into tackles and it’s a philosophy that has held up well over the last decade when they let guards like Eric Steinbach, Bobbie Williams, and Evan Mathis graduate."

I like how he refers to letting free agents leave as 'graduating'.

(02-10-2017, 07:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Out of curiosity, who do you believe is the ultimate problem? 

Marv was the one that stuck with Ced O. when he was sucking royal ass...
Marv played ancient, plodding LBs over younger, faster options...
Marv sat Hunt, after he finally made some plays....
Marv ran MJ out there week after week when he was getting less pressure than PAs coaches shorts have in the seat...
Marv kept feeding Hill, when he only had success against Cleveland....

Those are all calls coming from the HC....I don't know who else could have been more at fault for this team's collapse.

Mike Brown. 

He's the one who's stuck with this "we're better than the 90's" mantra, and is fine with the way this team's performed under Marv.
He's the one who's stuck with a shade over .500 regular season and opher postseason Head Coach.
He's the one who sticks with loyalty over accountability.
He's the one who holds the city accountable for paying for their stadium, upgrades, etc. while also not wanting to pay for a practice facility, expanded staff (scouting, Physicians, strength & conditioning, etc).

Those are examples of our CEO/Owner/Head man has set for us. 

(02-10-2017, 03:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Mike Brown. 

He's the one who's stuck with this "we're better than the 90's" mantra, and is fine with the way this team's performed under Marv.
He's the one who's stuck with a shade over .500 regular season and opher postseason Head Coach.
He's the one who sticks with loyalty over accountability.
He's the one who holds the city accountable for paying for their stadium, upgrades, etc. while also not wanting to pay for a practice facility, expanded staff (scouting, Physicians, strength & conditioning, etc).

Those are examples of our CEO/Owner/Head man has set for us. 

THIS   ^^^^

(02-10-2017, 03:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Mike Brown. 

He's the one who's stuck with this "we're better than the 90's" mantra, and is fine with the way this team's performed under Marv.
He's the one who's stuck with a shade over .500 regular season and opher postseason Head Coach.
He's the one who sticks with loyalty over accountability.
He's the one who holds the city accountable for paying for their stadium, upgrades, etc. while also not wanting to pay for a practice facility, expanded staff (scouting, Physicians, strength & conditioning, etc).

Those are examples of our CEO/Owner/Head man has set for us. 

Absolutely.  It starts at the top, and unfortunately that top goes by the name Mike Brown.

No doubt Marvin has long passed his peak as a HC, and we can rail all we want against him but the number 1 problem BY FAR is the decision to continue having him employed.

(02-10-2017, 04:07 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Absolutely.  It starts at the top, and unfortunately that top goes by the name Mike Brown.

No doubt Marvin has long passed his peak as a HC, and we can rail all we want against him but the number 1 problem BY FAR is the decision to continue having him employed.

The number one problem IMO is not having an almost obsessive desire & commitment to winning. All those other things will most likely fall into place if you have that burning desire & commitment.

I couldn't believe this crap when I read it yesterday. I feel like they told Hobs to post this to mess with the fans. Just get us all riled up right before they do absolutely nothing in the offseason.

(02-10-2017, 05:13 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I couldn't believe this crap when I read it yesterday. I feel like they told Hobs to post this to mess with the fans. Just get us all riled up right before they do absolutely nothing in the offseason.

I know it will have zero effect. But, I would like everyone on this Board to write a letter to Mike Brown [just to piss him off if nothing else]. I'll pay the postage if necessary. Many of you have posted messages that would make a great letter to MB.

So what do you have to lose?

(02-09-2017, 07:31 PM)McC Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Hobsons-Choice-feeling-a-draft/0f1d7480-e97b-4305-992e-58c6326f4f39

Allow me to summarize:

Zeitler is gone.  Pacman going nowhere.  Forget about a new C.  Sticking with the status quo cuz it's worked so well.

Don't know why I bother to read him since he makes me want to hurl.

I used to be a homer/optimist but shit like this makes me feel terrible.

He just spews this BS like every Bengal fan is stupid. Seriously, sounds like he is spitting in all of our faces.

It would not be hard to fix this team. It isn't rocket science...

Cut ties with Paul Alexander, add a decent O-line coach, do not extend Marv, re-sign Whit, Zeitler and Kirkpatrick.

Get a LB, pass rusher and an OT in Free Agency. Draft a Center in the 2nd or 3rd rounds and go BPA the rest of the draft.

Man i would take half of our fans running this team over what we got, it is ***** sad man.

At least I'm saving money this year by not flying to Cincy. Thnx Marvin Lewis for bringing me zero hope. As long as we keep Maualuga, Peko n Pacman another year I still have hope. Fml

(02-10-2017, 04:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The number one problem IMO is not having an almost obsessive desire & commitment to winning. All those other things will most likely fall into place if you have that burning desire & commitment.

Exactly !

Mike Brown is trying to put a john boat on the lake with a screen door for a bottom. It's never going to float, ever.

Until the core values change at the top here, everything will remain the same. Until winning is the one and only goal, until coaches are held accountable, until players are held accountable, until discipline is demanded, until expectations are set and repercussions follow if they're not met.

Nothing will change !

We could have three of the top ten picks in the draft and 100 million to spend in free agency and it won't matter.

(02-10-2017, 01:50 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What happened to "model model"? The Steelers signed DeCastro to a big deal.

I guess model model only applies to being cheap in free agency.

I guess model model only applies when there's no cheaper guy around.

Why resign Zeitler when we have an unproven 2nd year guy who costs so much less?

That has to make sense on some level of the Mikey Brown thought process.

Quote:From Hopspin

I mean, the Patriots have been plugging and playing on the interior of the offensive line for 15 years and five NFL titles. Remember, they traded their Pro Bowl guard Logan Mankins rather than pay him. Do you have to have first-rounders or break-the-bank guys at every spot on the offensive line? No and you can’t even if you wanted.

On Sunday night the Pats lined up with rookie left guard Joe Thuney, a third-rounder, a second-year undrafted center in David Andrews, and a second-year fourth-round pick in right guard Shaq Mason. Not to mention Dalton’s TCU teammate at right tackle, fifth-rounder Marcus Cannon.

What a joke.

We plug in a 4th round center and blows chunks. Patriots plug in an undrafted center and they win a championship. I guess we need to start looking at the player selection a little harder.

Besides, if we were going to be more like the Patriots we'd be cutting our non-performers loose rather than sticking with them.

(02-11-2017, 01:53 AM)BengalChris Wrote: What a joke.

We plug in a 4th round center and blows chunks. Patriots plug in an undrafted center and they win a championship. I guess we need to start looking at the player selection a little harder.

Besides, if we were going to be more like the Patriots we'd be cutting our non-performers loose rather than sticking with them.

Lol it's funny and sad

(02-10-2017, 02:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: "They put the long-term money into tackles and it’s a philosophy that has held up well over the last decade when they let guards like Eric Steinbach, Bobbie Williams, and Evan Mathis graduate."

I like how he refers to letting free agents leave as 'graduating'.

Also, there's the part of the equation Josef didn't mention--who did they replace them with?

(02-10-2017, 03:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Mike Brown. 

He's the one who's stuck with this "we're better than the 90's" mantra, and is fine with the way this team's performed under Marv.
He's the one who's stuck with a shade over .500 regular season and opher postseason Head Coach.
He's the one who sticks with loyalty over accountability.
He's the one who holds the city accountable for paying for their stadium, upgrades, etc. while also not wanting to pay for a practice facility, expanded staff (scouting, Physicians, strength & conditioning, etc).

Those are examples of our CEO/Owner/Head man has set for us. 

This is one of those arguments where it is like a Republican trying to tell a Democrat something is different than they see it.  It is probably futile.  And before I start, I am not a relative and not on the payroll. 

Mike Brown wants to win as much as we do, if not more.  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion....like the Falcons firing two defensive coaches moments after the Super Bowl.  This is a very intelligent and calculating man.  I believe he didn't fire Marvin because it was one really off year.  A blip on an otherwise positive trajectory.  I don't know if Marvin can ever truly change his stripes and play with the kind of aggression necessary to win a championship, but Mike Brown rightly believes that one year shouldn't take away Marvin's opportunity to finish what he started.   As much as I hate conservative, bad clock management, no in-game adjustment Marv, I and still pulling for the guy to complete the mission.

The city does NOT pay for all the stadium and upgrades.  The city agreed to a slight tax increase to help funding of a new stadium and for improvements over the course of its existence.  Every singly owner in the NFL would do the exact same thing, and Mr. Brown did pay for improvements, enhancements, more scouts, and better coaches (how quickly we forget that the Bengals had one of the highest overall payrolls for coaches when they had Marv, Zim, and Gruden all together.  And he assembled that coaching staff.  He  may be judicious in how he spends his money, but he definitely spends on players that have earned it...there was never a question that our core players would be re-signed and offered fair market value.  The fact that Nelson, Sanu, and Jones left doesn't change that.  The Bengals wisely didn't overpay to keep them, but it should be noted their offers were very close. 

As far as the day to day operations, he does very little any more...this team is primarily run by Marvin, Katie, and Troy.  And with the exception of this past season, they have put a winning team on the field that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years and overcome a troublesome decade and the stigma that went with it.

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those arguments where it is like a Republican trying to tell a Democrat something is different than they see it.  It is probably futile.  And before I start, I am not a relative and not on the payroll. 

Mike Brown wants to win as much as we do, if not more.  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion....like the Falcons firing two defensive coaches moments after the Super Bowl.  This is a very intelligent and calculating man.  I believe he didn't fire Marvin because it was one really off year.  A blip on an otherwise positive trajectory.  I don't know if Marvin can ever truly change his stripes and play with the kind of aggression necessary to win a championship, but Mike Brown rightly believes that one year shouldn't take away Marvin's opportunity to finish what he started.   As much as I hate conservative, bad clock management, no in-game adjustment Marv, I and still pulling for the guy to complete the mission.

The city does NOT pay for all the stadium and upgrades.  The city agreed to a slight tax increase to help funding of a new stadium and for improvements over the course of its existence.  Every singly owner in the NFL would do the exact same thing, and Mr. Brown did pay for improvements, enhancements, more scouts, and better coaches (how quickly we forget that the Bengals had one of the highest overall payrolls for coaches when they had Marv, Zim, and Gruden all together.  And he assembled that coaching staff.  He  may be judicious in how he spends his money, but he definitely spends on players that have earned it...there was never a question that our core players would be re-signed and offered fair market value.  The fact that Nelson, Sanu, and Jones left doesn't change that.  The Bengals wisely didn't overpay to keep them, but it should be noted their offers were very close. 

As far as the day to day operations, he does very little any more...this team is primarily run by Marvin, Katie, and Troy.  And with the exception of this past season, they have put a winning team on the field that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years and overcome a troublesome decade and the stigma that went with it.

I am not following the political riff or how that equates to what we're talking about. I am going off what I KNOW and the facts present to us. I have no idea how intelligent or calculated he is, so I cannot speak to that. I would assume he is. 

I know he's had two 8-8 years, and four losing seasons (07, 08, 10 and 16). I am not sure where you get this "one off year" stuff. He's terrible in primetime, terrible in the PO, and terrible vs our main div rival. Set NFL record for PO futility. This graph paints a grim picture.

And I never said the Hamilton Township people pay for all upgrades, just the pricey ones.

New scoreboard - 10 million (even asked for "for hiring an expert to go out and do studies and review other stadiums and update the stadium")

There's the concession - 20 million

All in all, the fine people are hamilton township have spent 920 million and will have paid 1.1 billion dollars by 2025.

And I was meaning the entire staff is lacking. Vas brought it up in a thread about the Falcons entire staff vs Bengals. It's not even close. The few teams i researched after that was pretty much the same. 

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those arguments where it is like a Republican trying to tell a Democrat something is different than they see it.  It is probably futile.  And before I start, I am not a relative and not on the payroll. 

Mike Brown wants to win as much as we do, if not more.  He has "stuck with Marvin" because he doesn't make quick decisions out of passion....like the Falcons firing two defensive coaches moments after the Super Bowl.  This is a very intelligent and calculating man.  I believe he didn't fire Marvin because it was one really off year.  A blip on an otherwise positive trajectory.  I don't know if Marvin can ever truly change his stripes and play with the kind of aggression necessary to win a championship, but Mike Brown rightly believes that one year shouldn't take away Marvin's opportunity to finish what he started.   As much as I hate conservative, bad clock management, no in-game adjustment Marv, I and still pulling for the guy to complete the mission.

The city does NOT pay for all the stadium and upgrades.  The city agreed to a slight tax increase to help funding of a new stadium and for improvements over the course of its existence.  Every singly owner in the NFL would do the exact same thing, and Mr. Brown did pay for improvements, enhancements, more scouts, and better coaches (how quickly we forget that the Bengals had one of the highest overall payrolls for coaches when they had Marv, Zim, and Gruden all together.  And he assembled that coaching staff.  He  may be judicious in how he spends his money, but he definitely spends on players that have earned it...there was never a question that our core players would be re-signed and offered fair market value.  The fact that Nelson, Sanu, and Jones left doesn't change that.  The Bengals wisely didn't overpay to keep them, but it should be noted their offers were very close. 

As far as the day to day operations, he does very little any more...this team is primarily run by Marvin, Katie, and Troy.  And with the exception of this past season, they have put a winning team on the field that has had a legitimate shot every season for five straight years and overcome a troublesome decade and the stigma that went with it.

It's obvious we should put faith in Mike and Marv. Just look at their results. Do we really want to end up like those scrub Falcons?

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  (how quickly we forget that the Bengals had one of the highest overall payrolls for coaches when they had Marv, Zim, and Gruden all together.  

Do you have anything whatsoever to support this claim?  I kinda feel like you just made this up. If im wrong my apologies, but please share. A link would be a great start.

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  The city agreed to a slight tax increase to help funding of a new stadium and for improvements over the course of its existence. 

Slight? It's going to cost county tax payers upwards of a billion dollars. It's the equivalent of the street car, city-wide raises, and about 3-5 school levies. There's nothing slight about it. I would love to hear your definition of "considerate" or "sizeable" in regards to local projects. 

(02-11-2017, 10:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  Every singly owner in the NFL would do the exact same thing

Except he enjoys what's been called "the greatest stadium deal in the history of sports". Does every owner benefit similarly?  No. And despite this, he still spends significantly less than his peers. Would every owner do that?