With free agency about to go into full swing. There are still people in this board that get shocked when we don't make a big mobe. But it's been this way since the dawn of time.

And I've gotten ok with it, because Mike Brown and Marvin preach the "we keep our own"philosophy. And I'm ok with that. But the problem comes when they back out of their end. To just let big Z walk goes against everything they've preached about the draft and free agency. There's even talks about not knowing I'f we'll resign Dre K.

What good is blowing off free agency if you're not even re upping our good draft picks contracts.

(02-14-2017, 10:03 PM)zygrot24 Wrote: With free agency about to go into full swing. There are still people in this board that get shocked when we don't make a big mobe. But it's been this way since the dawn of time.

And I've gotten ok with it, because Mike Brown and Marvin preach the "we keep our own"philosophy. And I'm ok with that. But the problem comes when they back out of their end. To just let big Z walk goes against everything they've preached about the draft and free agency. There's even talks about not knowing I'f we'll resign Dre K.

What good is blowing off free agency if you're not even re upping our good draft picks contracts.

Mikey loves comp picks.

As much as I am annoyed that we are about to let Zeitler walk and probably going to lose a guy like Dre as well, the Bengals have signed some of their bigger name players to extensions. Green, Burfict, Atkins, Dalton and they did actually try with Marvin Jones (even though I think they tried too late and never should have let him hit FA.)

The issue is, they do a little work at keeping their own, which would be great if they were signing a few guys to replace the missing pieces. Instead, they "keep their own" and let important pieces walk before dumpster diving the last weeks of FA to get bodies around. It just looks cheap and unprepared.

I'm getting a gut feel Mikey is going to let a lot of FA's walk this year. The rebuild cycle has begun. Nobody will admit it yet.

(02-14-2017, 10:03 PM)zygrot24 Wrote: With free agency about to go into full swing. There are still people in this board that get shocked when we don't make a big mobe. But it's been this way since the dawn of time.

And I've gotten ok with it, because Mike Brown and Marvin preach the "we keep our own"philosophy. And I'm ok with that. But the problem comes when they back out of their end. To just let big Z walk goes against everything they've preached about the draft and free agency. There's even talks about not knowing I'f we'll resign Dre K.

What good is blowing off free agency if you're not even re upping our good draft picks contracts.

We keep our own. Model model.

Except when we don't.

Let's just say I'm not convinced Zeitler is gone. I think they do a deal with him....

We keep our own, but we'll go out and sign a corner because were fully prepared to let Dre Kirkpatrick walk in free agency.

We keep our own as long as they're a "family insider" and Mike rarely considers interior linemen "insiders".

(02-14-2017, 10:03 PM)zygrot24 Wrote: With free agency about to go into full swing. There are still people in this board that get shocked when we don't make a big mobe. But it's been this way since the dawn of time.

And I've gotten ok with it, because Mike Brown and Marvin preach the "we keep our own"philosophy. And I'm ok with that. But the problem comes when they back out of their end. To just let big Z walk goes against everything they've preached about the draft and free agency. There's even talks about not knowing I'f we'll resign Dre K.

What good is blowing off free agency if you're not even re upping our good draft picks contracts.

A co-worker and I were discussing this very topic yesterday.  Year after year, we get this schpiel about rolling over money to extend our own.  Then we either screw around and try to low ball some of them and they walk, we wait until the midnight hour (essentially saying we kinda want you around....but it has to be cheap) or we just let 'em walk.  Then, we don't replace them with a similar caliber player, we hit the atomic dust bin.  Here's where it gets REAL frustrating.....we can't "overpay" a homegrown talent we actually need like a Kevin Zietler, but we can overpay two aging turds for a decade in Peko and Hockaloogie, instead of replacing THEM with a scrap heap FA and saving money against the cap THERE.  What the actual ****?

(02-15-2017, 09:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Let's just say I'm not convinced Zeitler is gone. I think they do a deal with him....

I hope you're right, and that they haven't conveyed the wrong message to Z and his agents.  The guy isn't an all world player, but he is good.  When the rest of that side of the line is below average to terrible, I just don't think we can afford to lose him.  Better yet, Andy can't afford it.

(02-15-2017, 09:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Let's just say I'm not convinced Zeitler is gone. I think they do a deal with him....

They've had plenty of time to get one done, and they've just shuffled their feet. If Kevin's intent is to test the market then so be it, but there hasn't been any news of either side reaching out to negotiate a deal before free agency.

(02-14-2017, 10:09 PM)Derrick Wrote: Mikey loves comp picks.

Yea, those 2015 comp picks (Dawson and Hardison) sure have worked out for the Bengals so far...oh wait.

(02-15-2017, 10:50 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: They've had plenty of time to get one done, and they've just shuffled their feet. If Kevin's intent is to test the market then so be it, but there hasn't been any news of either side reaching out to negotiate a deal before free agency.

And they still have lot's of time to get one done. I'm quite sure Zeitler wants to see what he will bring in FA, who wouldn't. And when he does, then the Bengals know what it is going to take to keep him, and then they decide if they want to cough that up, rather than overpaying him now. I'm sure they have a top number in mind. Just like with Andre Smith, he jumped into FA and found out he's not worth as much as he thinks he is, not because he is not good, but that some teams won't pay that because they don't need a guard. If he gets an astronomical offer, then he's gone. That's not the Bengals fault, nor Zeitler's fault.... that is the NFL...

(02-15-2017, 11:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And they still have lot's of time to get one done. I'm quite sure Zeitler wants to see what he will bring in FA, who wouldn't. And when he does, then the Bengals know what it is going to take to keep him, and then they decide if they want to cough that up, rather than overpaying him now. I'm sure they have a top number in mind. Just like with Andre Smith, he jumped into FA and found out he's not worth as much as he thinks he is, not because he is not good, but that some teams won't pay that because they don't need a guard. If he gets an astronomical offer, then he's gone. That's not the Bengals fault, nor Zeitler's fault.... that is the NFL...

I think the disgust comes from letting guys like Alex Mack pass us by in FA because the FO told us they were saving money to extend guys like Zeitler.  They could have gotten the deal done last year, they didn't.  I have to point the finger directly at the Bengals......because of their words in the past.  This guy was a first rounder, started from day 1.  There is absolutely no excuse for this to even be a point of contention.  He should already be signed.  "Model, model", after all.

(02-15-2017, 11:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And they still have lot's of time to get one done. I'm quite sure Zeitler wants to see what he will bring in FA, who wouldn't. And when he does, then the Bengals know what it is going to take to keep him, and then they decide if they want to cough that up, rather than overpaying him now. I'm sure they have a top number in mind. Just like with Andre Smith, he jumped into FA and found out he's not worth as much as he thinks he is, not because he is not good, but that some teams won't pay that because they don't need a guard. If he gets an astronomical offer, then he's gone. That's not the Bengals fault, nor Zeitler's fault.... that is the NFL...

I think there's a difference between not wanting to overpay, and being aggressive. If the front office is continuously reaching out to Zeitler to negotiate that sends a signal that they are will to pay him a fair deal to keep him. Zeitler and his agent aren't dumb, they know what Kevin is worth just as much as the Bengals know what he's worth. If he wants to test the market and try to land more money, then fine that's nothing we can control, and that's his right to do so. There'll be a team out there that will be open to paying him a lot more then he's worth. Although I think there's something to be said if the Bengals are serious and aggressive in trying to keep him, but not giving him a ridiculous deal. Its nice to feel wanted, and if our front office sends Kevin the signal that he's wanted here, but were not willing to blow our cap wad on keeping him he may be more inclined to resign. Unless he's convinced himself that he needs a change.

I suspect we have a dollar amount in mind that we are willing to go to keep him, but we probably sent an offer much lower than that as a starting point. He of course rebuffed, and we left it at that. Now were waiting to see how the market plays out before we up our offer, willing to let him test it out and risk not retaining him.  

I'd be extremely happy with keeping our own this year.

(02-15-2017, 10:16 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: We keep our own, but we'll go out and sign a corner because were fully prepared to let Dre Kirkpatrick walk in free agency.

I'm really hoping the CB signing was for letting Jones go instead of Kirky. But who knows..

(02-15-2017, 12:31 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: I'm really hoping the CB signing was for letting Jones go instead of Kirky. But who knows..

Adam Jones is under contract for a few more years. I think they are perfectly fine with letting him serve a 4 game suspension and keeping him.

Keep guys like peko, and Rey M. Let's guys like big Z and Dre K walk.

Love being a bengal fan

(02-15-2017, 11:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And they still have lot's of time to get one done. I'm quite sure Zeitler wants to see what he will bring in FA, who wouldn't. And when he does, then the Bengals know what it is going to take to keep him, and then they decide if they want to cough that up, rather than overpaying him now. I'm sure they have a top number in mind. Just like with Andre Smith, he jumped into FA and found out he's not worth as much as he thinks he is, not because he is not good, but that some teams won't pay that because they don't need a guard. If he gets an astronomical offer, then he's gone. That's not the Bengals fault, nor Zeitler's fault.... that is the NFL...

But this is the flaw in letting another team set the market.  Once that happens, the Bengals are usually out of it.

(02-15-2017, 11:31 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I think there's a difference between not wanting to overpay, and being aggressive. If the front office is continuously reaching out to Zeitler to negotiate that sends a signal that they are will to pay him a fair deal to keep him. Zeitler and his agent aren't dumb, they know what Kevin is worth just as much as the Bengals know what he's worth. If he wants to test the market and try to land more money, then fine that's nothing we can control, and that's his right to do so. There'll be a team out there that will be open to paying him a lot more then he's worth. Although I think there's something to be said if the Bengals are serious and aggressive in trying to keep him, but not giving him a ridiculous deal. Its nice to feel wanted, and if our front office sends Kevin the signal that he's wanted here, but were not willing to blow our cap wad on keeping him he may be more inclined to resign. Unless he's convinced himself that he needs a change.

I suspect we have a dollar amount in mind that we are willing to go to keep him, but we probably sent an offer much lower than that as a starting point. He of course rebuffed, and we left it at that. Now were waiting to see how the market plays out before we up our offer, willing to let him test it out and risk not retaining him.  

Well said.  And I would add this--how many more years would he want to have Bodine's 300 lbs on his back  next to the 300 plus of a bad RT?