I get the phrase " You can never have enough pass rushers", but is this a higher need then let's say bolstering the LB core, getting a playmaking Free Saftey, or reterning the Bengals Oline to some form of respectability? I keep seeing national media pundits & analysis saying that the Bengals top need is another end to compliment Dunlap. I honestly didn't think Will Clarke did a bad job when forced to come in for a mediocre MJ. I just didn't see the overglaring need.

I just think that when picking at #9, the Bengals would be better off trading up or taking a FS like Hooker or Adams, a LB like Foster, or a top Olineman over an Edge rusher like Solomon Thomas or Derrik Barnett. I also don't get the RB picks when the Oline as constructed can not run block for that pick. Thoughts?

I agree that Clarke very well could be a good starting DE, but we really do need the depth at Dline that we had under Zim though. That 8 man rotation kept opposing Olines on their toes and kept our guys fresh all game.

While I agree we need those things, we have to be honest. It's doubtful the Bengals are going to draft a safety when they signed Iloka to an extension. Last year was his first year on the new deal. He's signed until 2021. They signed Williams to an extension last year, he has 3 years left.
I'd LOVE Hooker or Adams on this team, but I don't see it happening due to the extensions they gave out.

Linebacker could be something they look for. Foster makes a lot of sense.

Don't trade up for an offensive lineman. This year's class is weak and there's no one I want within even the top 15.

Also not a fan of Fournette. Cook I would be happy with. But I think they're going to sit on RB until later on this draft.

Edge rusher makes sense. MJ is getting slower. Clarke had every chance to be a starter, but we have to face it, he's not that good. Even as a rotational player who saw 34.22% of snaps last year (3rd most of defensive ends) he still didn't do much. He's had every opportunity to. As has Margus Hunt. We had to bring back Gilberry because outside of Dunlap and Atkins we had virtually no pass rush

A player like Thomas or Barnett changes this defense. How many times have we seen a quarterback get pressure but our line can't finish? That happened A LOT last year. Our players couldn't finish plays. Barnett and Thomas can.

(02-18-2017, 11:03 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I get the phrase " You can never have enough pass rushers", but is this a higher need then let's say bolstering the LB core, getting a playmaking Free Saftey, or reterning the Bengals Oline to some form of respectability? I keep seeing national media pundits & analysis saying that the Bengals top need is another end to compliment Dunlap. I honestly didn't think Will Clarke did a bad job when forced to come in for a mediocre MJ. I just didn't see the overglaring need.

I just think that when picking at #9, the Bengals would be better off trading up or taking a FS like Hooker or Adams, a LB like Foster, or a top Olineman over an Edge rusher like Solomon Thomas or Derrik Barnett. I also don't get the RB picks when the Oline as constructed can not run block for that pick. Thoughts?

A great running back like Joe mixon or Dalvin cook makes the while oline better. And with this draft being so defensive line heavy I wouldn't be opposed to taking a lde and a rde. Dunlap is getting up there in age. Also I do not see a need at lb.  but what do I know I'm the one who would love mike Williams at 9. They're are no OT or og worthy of a top pick. Center foes need to be a top priority though. 

(02-20-2017, 02:33 AM)Jpoore Wrote: A great running back like Joe mixon or Dalvin cook makes the while oline better. And with this draft being so defensive line heavy I wouldn't be opposed to taking a lde and a rde. Dunlap is getting up there in age. Also I do not see a need at lb.  but what do I know I'm the one who would love mike Williams at 9. They're are no OT or og worthy of a top pick. Center foes need to be a top priority though. 

On offense I'd be happy with Cook, Williams, or Davis in the 1st round. Granted, I'd like Davis or Williams before Cook. But I could dig it.

I think we have a couple Ends on our board at 9 and if they are gone we come back around in the 2nd and grab the next tier. Think WR last year, we had a couple we liked and when they were gone we didn't reach we just waited until a player matched the draft slot and took him. I think 9 becomes a value pick and if the pick matches an end for value we take them otherwise we could see a skill player who is just too valuable at 9 to pass.

I think a lot of it has to do with the value of a position.

An every down 4-3 DE is a first round position like LT, QB or QB. You are more likely to find a safety, DT, or interior O-linemen in the 2nd round or later.

The Bengals could also go for a smaller pass rush specialist who would rotate and only play on passing downs. Guys like that can also be found in the 2nd round or later. The Bengals have dabbled a bit with guys like Donte Moch and Chris Carter. But an every down 4-3 DE who can pressure the QB and stuff the run are very rare and hard to find.

(02-18-2017, 11:03 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I get the phrase " You can never have enough pass rushers", but is this a higher need then let's say bolstering the LB core, getting a playmaking Free Saftey, or reterning the Bengals Oline to some form of respectability? I keep seeing national media pundits & analysis saying that the Bengals top need is another end to compliment Dunlap. I honestly didn't think Will Clarke did a bad job when forced to come in for a mediocre MJ. I just didn't see the overglaring need.

I just think that when picking at #9, the Bengals would be better off trading up or taking a FS like Hooker or Adams, a LB like Foster, or a top Olineman over an Edge rusher like Solomon Thomas or Derrik Barnett. I also don't get the RB picks when the Oline as constructed can not run block for that pick. Thoughts?

Top 3 needs, Pass rusher, Competent LB and Oline. We have both safety positions locked up until 2020 with 2 backups who are going into year 3 and 2 respectively. Unless they want a rangy safety that can see the field without Williams or Iloka taking a massive reduction in play time I don't see them drafting one high.

(02-18-2017, 11:03 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I get the phrase " You can never have enough pass rushers", but is this a higher need then let's say bolstering the LB core, getting a playmaking Free Saftey, or reterning the Bengals Oline to some form of respectability? I keep seeing national media pundits & analysis saying that the Bengals top need is another end to compliment Dunlap. I honestly didn't think Will Clarke did a bad job when forced to come in for a mediocre MJ. I just didn't see the overglaring need.

I just think that when picking at #9, the Bengals would be better off trading up or taking a FS like Hooker or Adams, a LB like Foster, or a top Olineman over an Edge rusher like Solomon Thomas or Derrik Barnett. I also don't get the RB picks when the Oline as constructed can not run block for that pick. Thoughts?

Here's the issue:

LB Corp: We have Burfict, who will be here for a while and Nick Vigil, who the coaches regard very highly. Linebackers are becoming less and less valuable in the NFL today because it is a passing league and, if we did take a LB at 9, they probably wouldn't be a 3 down player, likely coming off the field on 2nd and long and 3rd downs.

Playmaking Free Safety: The Bengals have paid Illoka and Williams for at least 3 more years. We aren't drafting a safety. People just need to get over this.

Offfensive Line: Any OT or OG would be a large reach at this position. If we are truly looking for a BPA pick, Oline is even worse value than DLine. Add on to this that they have two young players that were high picks that, really, saw their first year of pro football this year. While they struggled, the Bengals aren't going to give up on them that quickly.

I watched Clarke play as well and was completely uninspired by him. He wasn't horrific, but there's a reason the Bengals went out and signed Gilberry in the middle of the season.

Because that's how thin our DE group is. Now Hunt and Gilberry are free agents, we have a few guys coming off of the injury list that we little to nothing about and our pass rush has been slipping.

Unlike each of the 3 positions you mentioned, there is not a clear heir apparent at DE, as Clarke has not shown any promise beyond a replacement level player. There is a lack of depth and they're even losing free agents at the position.

I think DE is the clear choice at 9 and there are a lot of very strong, talented players to pick from.

It all starts in the trenches. And at DE, you're getting value, impact and you're still selecting BPA.

It hits all the criteria and I think it's going to be obvious when all's said and done.

They may take Foster at the end of the day just because he is a great value at 9, but I just don't think the Bengals are ones to take a player they don't intend to play on most of their snaps for the position. And I don't think Foster is a 3 down backer.

(02-20-2017, 11:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I think a lot of it has to do with the value of a position.

An every down 4-3 DE is a first round position like LT, QB or QB.  You are more likely to find a safety, DT, or interior O-linemen in the 2nd round or later.

The Bengals could also go for a smaller pass rush specialist who would rotate and only play on passing downs.  Guys like that can also be found in the 2nd round or later.  The Bengals have dabbled a bit with guys like Donte Moch and Chris Carter.  But an every down 4-3 DE who can pressure the QB and stuff the run are very rare and hard to find.

Yep. That's why players like Demarcus Walker fall into the 2nd round. His run defense is suspect. Sure, he could be a great rotational player for us. And I think he could get better as time goes on.

But players like Thomas and Barnett can do both. Neither is the perfect prospect, but I like them both. I'd prefer Barnett over Thomas personally.

But we need to find a full time defensive end. MJ is 30 and has 2 years left on his contract. He will be making a little over $11 million the next 2 seasons.