PFF released an article evaluating all the route types in the NFL and which cornerback defended each the best.

Dre Kirkpatrick is apparently the best deep ball CB in the league, according to PFF.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-versus-each-route-type/

Quote:Best CB defending the go route in 2016 (min. six targeted routes); Dre Kirkpatrick, Bengals

Dre Kirkpatrick defended the go route as well as one can possibly do it in 2016. He was targeted nine times on such routes without allowing a catch, and he intercepted two passes (tied for most in NFL). He had the lowest QB rating against, with a 0.0, 39.6 points lower than if a QB just threw an incomplete pass every time. Kirkpatrick was used in multiple coverages when stopping the go route: five times he was in man coverage, either cover-1 or cover-2 man, and four times in zone, twice in cover-6, once in cover-4, and once in cover-3. Both of Kirkpatrick’s interceptions came in zone coverage, while in man he broke up one of five passes with another being incomplete due to an underthrow.

(02-20-2017, 09:04 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: PFF released an article evaluating all the route types in the NFL and which cornerback defended each the best.

Dre Kirkpatrick is apparently the best deep ball CB in the league, according to PFF.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-versus-each-route-type/

These are actually the things I think PFF does well. I don't necessarily like their grading system, but breaking thing downs this far is really interesting. I think this is the kind of information that gets Dre paid. If your a team like Seattle, or one of the Seattle spin offs, he is perfect for your system. You can stick him on an island and know you won't get burned deep. You can give up the underneath stuff, but with a single high safety you have to know you won't get beat over top.

We play a two high safety look more than almost anyone in the league. Not saying I don't want to keep Dre, but if his value is generated by not getting beat deep then I think he is over valued for OUR system. I guess it all comes down to what we can get him for, but I can see some teams where they want to leave their guys on an island paying him big. Seattle get's away with holding a lot, he could go there and probably have a really good career.

It seems to me that everybody outside of the Steelers just "dink and dunk" their way down the field. It's great that he's rated so highly against the deep ball, but it doesn't seem like a lot of teams are going deep.

(02-20-2017, 01:58 PM)jason Wrote: It seems to me that everybody outside of the Steelers just "dink and dunk" their way down the field. It's great that he's rated so highly against the deep ball, but it doesn't seem like a lot of teams are going deep.

Cardinals love deep shots, Seattle plays the Cardinals twice a year. I really think Dre ends up in Seattle.

That is a great thing to be good at in the NFL as far as Cornerback.

Dre really surprised me with his good play last year and i was a Kirkpatrick hater for many years before cause of
the double moves he used to get beat on and his penalties. Plus he couldn't get interceptions even when they hit
him in the hands at times. He improved in all these aspects last year.

Still, i don't trust the guy and i don't think it would be the end of the world if he went somewhere else with guys
like Shaw, Dennard, WJ3, Garrett and now Benwikere in the wings.

It would be the end of the world if we didn't bring back Whitworth for atleast a year.

Dre was a very good CB for us this year. I hope that we bring him back.

(02-20-2017, 09:04 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: PFF released an article evaluating all the route types in the NFL and which cornerback defended each the best.

Dre Kirkpatrick is apparently the best deep ball CB in the league, according to PFF.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-versus-each-route-type/

Things like this are what I miss from PFF. I want to see stats and see what means what. Not just "we rank him this because he graded as this and had penalties".

Kirkpatrick certainly improved and I don't think he was as bad as some people believed even in 2015. I hope we keep him.

Never had a big beef with dre covering; I was more uneasy with his run-support (save last year). He really stepped his game up in that area and it made him a very valuable CB.

I think the Bengals should take this past year's Kirkpatrick into evaluation that they need to start playing their corners more.

Kirkpatrick has been the starter for 2 years. Just 2. He was put in during the Denver game in 2014. Who knows when he would have started if Newman didn't have such a terrible last few games.

Cornerbacks can only get better with more playing time. It's the hardest position to transition to. There's growing pains for every one. Hopefully this allows them to not be afraid to play their 1st rounders more.

(02-20-2017, 09:37 AM)Au165 Wrote: These are actually the things I think PFF does well. I don't necessarily like their grading system, but breaking thing downs this far is really interesting. I think this is the kind of information that gets Dre paid. If your a team like Seattle, or one of the Seattle spin offs, he is perfect for your system. You can stick him on an island and know you won't get burned deep. You can give up the underneath stuff, but with a single high safety you have to know you won't get beat over top.

We play a two high safety look more than almost anyone in the league. Not saying I don't want to keep Dre, but if his value is generated by not getting beat deep then I think he is over valued for OUR system. I guess it all comes down to what we can get him for, but I can see some teams where they want to leave their guys on an island paying him big. Seattle get's away with holding a lot, he could go there and probably have a really good career.

I agree that Bengals play a lot of two high safety but I think you could see the difference last year from Reggie to Williams. Williams does not provide the same level of deep coverage and ball skills that Nelson did. I found the Bengals gave up more big plays last year than in any of the playoff years. Definitely tightened this area up as the season went on so maybe the safeties got more comfortable.

I would keep Dre because he takes away the deep ball. Forcing teams to complete a high percentage of passes to move the chains is an effective strategy. If Bengals had better coverage LBs and a consistent pass rush, the D would be a real strength. The DB's were not the issue.

Plus I keep Dre over Jones. Dre will cost more but dumping Pacman saves 7 mil if you do it in June. That plus dumping Mauluaga gives them the money to keep all three key FA's and updgrade other positions via the draft.

He stayed healthy and played well this year. Poor safety play by Shawne Williams and Illoka(At times) made it really hard for Pacman and Dre to look good. Also the d line couldn't pressure anyone for shit so QBs had a lot of time to wait for guys to get open. No CBis gonna play good under those conditions.

I hope we sign him back. Hie height is valuable in this league

(02-20-2017, 02:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a great thing to be good at in the NFL as far as Cornerback.

Dre really surprised me with his good play last year and i was a Kirkpatrick hater for many years before cause of
the double moves he used to get beat on and his penalties. Plus he couldn't get interceptions even when they hit
him in the hands at times. He improved in all these aspects last year.

Still, i don't trust the guy and i don't think it would be the end of the world if he went somewhere else with guys
like Shaw, Dennard, WJ3, Garrett and now Benwikere in the wings.

It would be the end of the world if we didn't bring back Whitworth for atleast a year.

(02-20-2017, 05:45 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I think the Bengals should take this past year's Kirkpatrick into evaluation that they need to start playing their corners more.

Kirkpatrick has been the starter for 2 years. Just 2. He was put in during the Denver game in 2014. Who knows when he would have started if Newman didn't have such a terrible last few games.

Cornerbacks can only get better with more playing time. It's the hardest position to transition to. There's growing pains for every one. Hopefully this allows them to not be afraid to play their 1st rounders more.

Agreed and if Dennard plays well this season we're in the same boat we were in this current offseason with Kirkpatrick. A player playing well in his contract year and the team wondering if the player is worth extending based of a small sample size of production. Thats where I'm at with Fisher going into next year. I'd rather find out if he can play right tackle or not this season vs. singing at vet RT and having Fisher sit on the bench for 3 plus years not knowing if he can play. If he dosent play well unit year 4 we would have another guy in a contract year with one season of productivity. I understand bringing back Whit because Ced was such a liability. The Obueghi situation will be interesting going forward. Let's say the Bengals sign Whit for one year and Obueghi sits on the bench all next year in his 3rd season. The following year would be his 4th season. Let's say by some miracle Obueghi starts at left tackle in year 4 and plays decent but not great. The Bengals would have to make a big decision on picking up his 5 year option and a bigger one the following year when he's a free agent based off a hypothetical 1 1/2 of good play. I'd sign Dre and cut that aging thug corner pacman. It will open up the door to seeing if Jackson III can play as well as the other young corners.

I'm all for bringing Kirkpatrick back. I just hope they get rid of his thugs life mentor Jones and he looses that mentality.

(02-20-2017, 01:58 PM)jason Wrote: It seems to me that everybody outside of the Steelers just "dink and dunk" their way down the field. It's great that he's rated so highly against the deep ball, but it doesn't seem like a lot of teams are going deep.

Even the Steelers don't go deep as often as people think. Even the greats like Brady and Brees "dink and dunk" for the most part. The Steelers are similar to the Bengals when it comes to passing. Try to soften the D with short stuff, then take a couple shots deep here and there.

As for DreKirk, he's developed into a fine CB. Hopefully the Bengals reward him.

(02-21-2017, 03:28 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Even the Steelers don't go deep as often as people think. Even the greats like Brady and Brees "dink and dunk" for the most part. The Steelers are similar to the Bengals when it comes to passing. Try to soften the D with short stuff, then take a couple shots deep here and there.

As for DreKirk, he's developed into a fine CB. Hopefully the Bengals reward him.

Will he be 


????

(02-20-2017, 05:58 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I agree that Bengals play a lot of two high safety but I think you could see the difference last year from Reggie to Williams. Williams does not provide the same level of deep coverage and ball skills that Nelson did. I found the Bengals gave up more big plays last year than in any of the playoff years. Definitely tightened this area up as the season went on so maybe the safeties got more comfortable.

I think more of the issue was blown assignments early on. A lot of CBs looking at the safeties trying to figure out where they were on a play. When an offense lines up, depending on formation and count to each side of the ball it can dictate slight adjustments to the coverage. I think early on the CBs were seeing things differently than the Safeties, but as the year progressed everyone got ont he same page. People don't realize that real football isn't Madden, guys don't just run to a colored area on the field and play "zone"

If Dre is a UFA I honestly question if we'd just let him walk too


Since appearently our new thing is not signing good talent to let new shity draft picks play smh

(02-20-2017, 09:04 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: PFF released an article evaluating all the route types in the NFL and which cornerback defended each the best.

Dre Kirkpatrick is apparently the best deep ball CB in the league, according to PFF.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-versus-each-route-type/

I am not attacking Dre with what I am about to say, because I do want him extended and I believe he improved tremendously as the season wore on.  

This stat is a large part of what I hate about the Bengals defensive coaches, specifically Kevin Coyle.  Early in the season, it was almost a reflection of the damn Chuck Breshnahan "don't give up the big play!" days.  They were clearly coached to avoid giving up anything deep no matter what, while inexperienced QBs like Trevor Simeon were given easy underneath routes to complete all day.  It was a far cry from the Zimmer and Joseph "contest every pass" coaching in the past.

I am not saying Dre didn't do his job, but that I hate the job he was given.  Adam Jones being horribly out of shape early in the year didn't help matters much, either.  I would likely attribute this to his drinking, which is still his choice to not be prepared.  

(02-22-2017, 10:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am not attacking Dre with what I am about to say, because I do want him extended and I believe he improved tremendously as the season wore on.  

This stat is a large part of what I hate about the Bengals defensive coaches, specifically Kevin Coyle.  Early in the season, it was almost a reflection of the damn Chuck Breshnahan "don't give up the big play!" days.  They were clearly coached to avoid giving up anything deep no matter what, while inexperienced QBs like Trevor Simeon were given easy underneath routes to complete all day.  It was a far cry from the Zimmer and Joseph "contest every pass" coaching in the past.

I am not saying Dre didn't do his job, but that I hate the job he was given.  Adam Jones being horribly out of shape early in the year didn't help matters much, either.  I would likely attribute this to his drinking, which is still his choice to not be prepared.  

From my perspective, it seems we've always played off the WRs...even under Zimmer. They've always seemed to put priority on stopping big plays. They'll give you the short stuff, but they rely on sound tackling by the CBs to stop those short passes from gaining any YAC.

Keep in mind that Guenther came up under Zimmer and Zim wanted him as DC for the Vikings. Of course, Marv always has his say with our defense as well. I don't think the defense has changed much from the Zimmer days, and it's still highly effective. Btw...Coyle was the secondary coach for most of Zimmer's tenure.

We need to bring Dre back, cut Adam Jones and let the competition begin for 2nd string CB between Dennard, Shaw and WJ3.